Hi


Now that made me chuckle

I've got several more days before I decide what to do, if nothing useful in the way of feedback and promises of fixes from their trip to the UK appears here in the next few days, I'm sending it back to.

I still can't believe Pace think what they have released is acceptable.

Regards

Phil

Hi,

This is exactly why I returned my box.

If it still has bugs etc after the long awaited update and Pace/Philips state that as far as they are concerned it's acceptable then one is well and truly "Up the creek without a paddle" regarding return/refund.

Dave.

Well, I've had mine for a week now and despite one or two issues and the very poor EPG functionality I'm really pleased with it.

I'm sticking with it and keeping my fingers crossed that the future updates improve what is a pretty decent bit of kit in my opinion. After all, who is to say that the other yet to launch products are going to be perfect from the off.

Yeah not bad 4 out of 5 why because of the epg

This really goes to show that people are having vastly differing experiences with this box and good to hear you may have one the the good ones.

As far as the others to be released, yes I suspect there will be teething problems with all; you only have to look at the thread concerning the Digitalstream box which is the only other one available.

But looking at the http://www.avforums.com/forums/pvrs-...sues-list.html thread I very much doubt you'll ever come across so many problems in any of the others when released. I'm normally pretty easy to please but returned my box as I can't see how they will fix all that is wrong.

Hi


I expected some issues but not so many. The other really disappointing thing is the user interface, the number of button presses you need to navigate the guide for example. This is suppose to be designed by Pace, the "worlds number one" so they proclaim on their website, yet they turn out something that is so lacking in even basic features such as genre search or a word search for finding programs. Thinking about it, maybe this is deliberate so they aren't seen competing against some of their bigger customers? Sky would not be happy if Pace made a great PVR with Sky like features that meant customers were not bothering to sign up with Sky! If this is the case, why are they bothering, if it isn't the case what excuse is there?

Also the inconsistency in the interface, you can reach the bottom of a menu item and go past the bottom and return to the top, in the EPG you can't, and I'm already fed up with scrolling up and down between the top channels then the HD channels seeing if the same program is on in HD when scrolling is one channel at a time, and you have to press down then pause for a moment, then click down again and pause to move one channel at a time. No option to manually organise the guide either. If the box worked perfectly I could be more forgiving over interface issues, but given all the bugs (granted not everyone notices or comes across every bug, but they are there), and the fact the interface is going to become very irritating to use over time, I don't think there are any promises Pace can make that would make me decide to keep it now.

Regards

Phil

Marginally off topic... I've been getting frustrated reading this forum and AVForums about the various set-top HD PVRs ... what do you guys and gals think about something like the Panasonic DMR-BW380, twin-tuner, HD, records to DVD, other bits and bobs - but priced at close to £500, I think, when it comes out allegedly on 1st June?

I have a Panasonic TV and generally like Panasonic gear, but I don't know whether it's worth upping my price limit for functionality (DVD recording) that I may not use. Any thoughts?

Here's the spec, incidentally:

http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_G...120/index.html

Mods, if you think it's too off-topic, apologies and delete.

Hi


The only thing that puts me off this the EPG is from GuidePlus and even has adverts on it! I don't really think I should be shown adverts in my EPG when I've paid £500 for the product. Plus the EPG isn't that nice.

Otherwise I agree, generally Panasonic stuff seems pretty good.

Regards

Phil

After using this for just under a week I am getting more disappointed. Further probs over this weekend:
Pausing live TV causes the pause to jump back by as much as 25 minutes and using the jump forward and back buttons cease to work.
Sound goes to full when either switching on from standby or from radio to tv even though on screen indicator shows 60%.
I am also getting echo on BBC HD even through Panasonic tv but looking at other post this might not be box fault.
Radio mutes for a couple of seconds every minute or so after being on for several hours.

Disappointed since my first post for this machine was very positive but it has gone down on something almost every day since. I've got 2 more days before the 7 day return period expires and if nothing improves then its going back. Pity really - it has the makings of a good product but looks like it's been launched in a hurry.

Hi


This is why you can't always believe reviews in magazines and on the net, you have to use something for more than a few hours to know if it is reliable or not.

I think we all initially were quite pleased, but of course the bugs take time to find, like I said elsewhere, we are testing this on behalf of Pace, that much has become clear.

It could take months to fix all the niggles and bugs, then months again to include the basic functionality we were expecting, like a user interface that was joy to navigate around and EPG you could search. As for added functionality like iPlayer, forget it, I can't see that ever being introduced on this model as the software is too unstable and the Ethernet port will go unused. What will probably happen is in the autumn a new model will come out, based on a new software platform with all the bells and whistles and we'll be stuck with what we have.

I do wonder if these problems are related to the software platform they are using from Logiways. So much for designed by Pace.

Still on Tuesday we might have some info from the meeting taking place with MarcDavis, but what ever is said or promised, it will not be official and we'll never have anyway of chasing up or contacting them again.

I think now the safest option is to return it and see if in a few months time things have improved, or be stuck with a lemon, that is my worry.

Regards

Phil

Returned my Pace/Philips Box back today.
From John Lewis Cheadle.
Mentioned problems, took back with no fuss at all

Will revert back to Topfield until the market settles down
(Still keeping an eye on 3view tho!)
Paul

Just been on the phone to Comet to return the unit. Call took less than 5 minutes and no quibbles. Incidentally if you don't want to use the 0844 number stated on their info the geographic number is 01482 592570.

Ordering the Sagem for delivery next week. Hope this comes with fewer bugs.

Good luck to those of you who are hanging on!!

I am probably tempting fate by saying this,but I appear to be one of the lucky ones in that my scheduled recordings have been reliable,and faultless.
The various bugs,and issues,that have been identified are,with the best will in the world,going to take some considerable time to rectify unless Pace have a revised firmware waiting in the wings.
As an immediate update I would appreciate a Manual Tuning option,to cater for people such as myself who live in an area receiving signals from 2 transmitters,the numbering of channels in the EPG,and the ability within the EPG to click OK and jump to the channel.
Additionally,can anything be done to rectify the very low volume level output by the HDMI socket?
If not-then rectify the anomaly that neither the volume,nor the mute,control function via a scart connection.

I must dash I'm afraid. Just quickly, this note is really just to let anyone who is waiting know the meeting did take place - Unfortunately I will be unable to post for the next few hours but will come back to DS

My quick thoughts after reading this thread over the past week or so is that this machine as been released to what was probably a tight deadline without the necessary thorough testing and quality control.

That has meant that early adopters are basically not so much 'beta testers' as 'alpha testers' judging by the amount of problems this machine appears to have!

Very poor show from Philips/Pace, who really should know better. Just glad I'm not one of the poor saps who bought one

Hi


Yes Alpha testers are probably a better description as the box does seem incomplete. For example the "unique lighting feature" hasn't been implemented in anyway it could be of use and just has options for "Off and Demo", and Off isn't actually off! Missing functionality in the EPG and all the various applications don't link up properly, for example from the EPG you can press the library button and jump straight to the recording list, but can't jump back, you have to press a couple of buttons to get back.

They should just own up and say this is "demo software" and the real completed software will be available in July/August!

Anyway I'm not being a beta tester or alpha tester and pay them £300, so it is going back.

Regards

Phil

I wouldn't say we who bought this box are "Saps" (I'm sure the ones who are keeping their boxes will have something to say about that) more like we were lead up the garden path by thinking companies like Philips and Pace would release a top notch PVR and not the complete LEMON that we ended up with.

I was trawling the net today and came across a forum site (sorry did not note which one it was) and they where saying that the Philip / Pace machine was great but agreed their where a few bugs.

They referred to another forum who they did not want to mention ( I assume it is this one) and said that some users are getting up-tight about the box and as a PVR it is working fine.

I have gone for the DigitalStream box and again it has its navigation / GUI bugs, but up to now has preformed flawlessly.

The trouble with most PVR’s are that there is so many different set-ups and different ways of using the machines that we all get different experiences from them.

Hi


Think it is this one http://www.avforums.com/forums/pvrs-...sues-list.html

Regards

Phil

Any news on the meeting marcdavis? For those of us who haven't returned (yet) the Philips we would like to know what bugs are going to be fixed and when - then we can make an informed decision about whether we should keep the box.

- Simon.

Hi all. Sorry its getting a bit late isn’t it. Well, further to the conference call i had last week, three Pace representatives came over from France today for a flying visit. When I say flying visit - black cab from Heathrow airport straight here; hour and a half meeting; black cab (which waited outside the whole time) back to Heathrow to catch flight back to France! Attending is Nicolas, who heads up the R&D of Pace, and is the CTE and is involved in product and marketing. Also in attendance are his colleagues Roland who is a senior product manager in Pace, and he is currently in charge of every product based on T2 technology; and Laurent who heads up Validation at Pace. He manages and develops the Validation and Test section. I’m pleased because for end users following this thread I don't think we could speak to better people at Pace when it comes to explaining technical issues with their products who at the same time have the authority to get things done.

Having gathered feedback from customers who had already submitted online product reviews, posted on forums and the list put together by PhilipL (which was very useful) I was better able to demonstrate problem areas that have been raised, and how bugs or issues manifest themselves. The meeting basically followed a process of going through each of the main sections of the box, like EPG, Recordings Library, Scheduled timers, the trick play facilities, recording, playback etc.

Some items I brought up seemed genuinely new to them and some items were also up for debate i.e. areas where a design issue raised but it turns out there is an intentional decision to go that way by Pace, some of which I understood, and some of which I recommended Pace to revisit with a discussion about it back at the office. Pace received a lot of detail and a lot of end user style walk through – which i my opinion led to a much better understanding of the end user experience we are talking about. My impression is the team have come away having collated a lot more feedback and detail than they expected but were very grateful to having obtained all of it, with hands on, in such a short space of time.

Talking about time, we were starting to rush through towards the end and I still have to send through some items they need to look at, which we didn’t have time to cover. However, they will be going back now to go through what they can do initially and what items for change will take place in their second software update. Pace have a plan to release a software update in July and another one in September. There will probably be a requirement to scope in more changes now as a result of the feedback gathering exercise they undertake after a new product has been released, but hopefully that won’t affect their planned dates too much.

Hi Simon, I don't know what bugs out of a list will be in the fix list/release notes, nor any firm dates. However the Philips helpdesk appear to be telling customers July - that was the month Nicolas at pace told me on Thursday.

The company are going through a process at the moment collecting feedback to see how the product can be improved, if there are any big problems that have come to light, so they can plan work on them and incorporate into their release schedules. I've just given them a load of stuff you have collectively given me. So we will have to wait and see what happens. I am however optimistic that some of the issues people have brought up should be addressed. I just have no clue at this moment which will end up in the first release, second release or not at all yet. Don't expect me to either - if you have an issue/more concerns i can only say take it up with the helpdesk or the retailer?

Well done Marc and thanks for the feedback from the meeting. Fingers crossed for all the Pace/Philips owners.

I'll personally revisit this STB in a few months, by which time I will probably have returned a few more "new" boxes.

Hi

Thanks for the update and the time you have spent on this, but it begs the question, why wasn't this done as part of the design and testing process?

Why has it taken end users to find all the bugs and usability issues and put forward suggestions for improvement? I also assume the initial response of this firmware release being based on the French TV system and it shipped with the wrong version wasn't true?

If it hadn't been for you and your review, and giving Pace a chance to comment before your published it, I suspect Pace would be doing absolutely nothing.

As for the one and half hour rushed meeting then straight back to France, that tells me they are under resourced and just couldn't spare being away for any longer. That doesn't bode well for getting fixes in a timely manner and goes a long way to explain how the Pace box came to be released with these issues. The main purpose of the visit was probably to try and give the review something positive as would they have come to visit me or any of their other customers having problems?

So summing up then, we may or may not have fixes in a firmware release in July, which if that becomes the end of July is two months from now. We may or may not get better usability and fixes in a further update a month later. Pace may or may not agree to change some of the things we have complained about in the user interface as it is an "intentional decision to go that way by Pace", so ignoring customer feedback

So I'm still returning this unfinished Pace product

Thank you again Marc for spending your time on this, hopefully Pace will learn something from this, then again perhaps they will not.

Regards

Phil

Marc,
thanks for the feedback on your meeting with the representatives from Pace.
One's response will be,I suspect,dependent on whether one is a glass half empty,or half full.individual.
Personally,I think that given the damage that has been done to Pace's reputation with the release of the HDT8520,they will move as quickly as possible to retrieve the situation.
Time will tell.