Are you able to provide any detail on these areas where Pace made an intentional decision to go that way? This will at least tell us what they probably have no intention of changing, which will help us make a judgement on whether to return the box for a refund.

Was there any mention of 5.1 suround sound either by multichannel LPCM thru HDMI or AC3 thru SPDIF?

Pace/Philips obviously tried to steal a march on their competitors by being just about the first to release a freeview HD pvr, but in doing so at all costs they have taken their eye off the ball in terms of quality control.

It's played into the hands of their competitors. Also, buyers who are struggling on with unfinished tech or have sent their machines back are unlikely to trust Philips (who have their name on the box rather than Pace) again.

I was given to understand that,despite objections being raised,it was a design decision to omit Manual Tuning in the name of easy setup.

Hi


Mines got back now so I have no glass or contents to worry about at all now.

Two months to get it sorted out, I wonder what percentage of returns they will get in that 2 months?

Regards

Phil

Hi


That sounds to me like an excuse. The setup is automatic through a few wizards, they would just not show any option for manual tuning at the initial install, but just make it available in the set-up screens for those that need it. This is how most other PVRs or set-top boxes do it.

All the bugs and missing features are simply due to rushing it to market, either skipping a proper usability or testing phase, or they tested it, knew about the bugs and just let it ship anyway.

Their PR even boasted they were the first with a HD PVR on the market, even that was wrong. I'm sure technical leads and developers raised concerns it wasn't finished and had issues, but they were just ignored. I know that happens, I've been there. It was all about the sales, when isn't it, now it will be all about the returns.

Regards

Phil

I think they will have a high percentage of returns,especially bearing in mind that other Freeview+HD PVRs will be available by July.If it attracts positive reviews,I can see the Sagemcom RTI90 models siphoning off sales from the Philips.

I posted a very similar review(?) on another website as user feedback (techradar).

I've been waiting for a HD PVR for ages. Finally the local Richer Sounds had one in stock, so I immediately bought one last nigh (1-Jun-10). First impressions are utter disappointment.

I have had a TiVo for years (now no longer useful since the analogue switch over), a Humax 9300T (I rate 7/10 only due to clunky graphics), and a Sky HD+ (I rate 9/10 with the new shiny user interface). I rate the Philips HDT8520 only at 3/10, perhaps give it an extra mark since it is HD.

I'm so used to the Humax that all the features I really like, appear to be missing from the Philips.

I don't like the program guide at all. Scrolling is jerky. There is no page up/down. When at channel 99 (Babestation you can't just roll over to BBC1, but you have to press the up/down key for every channel to get back to channel 1. You can't switch to another channel (only start record or series link), instead you have to exit and use a different list (still no page up/down).
My biggest gripe is when in the program guide you lose picture and sound. Both Sky HD+ and Humax when in live, chase play or viewing a recording allow you to continue to view the program while using the program guide.
More subjectively, the program guide just looks amateurish (IMHO), with no good use of colour (e.g. to highligh HD programs - like the Sky HD+ box does). Oh - if the program or channel name doesn't fit it wobbles drunkenly backwards and forwards, even though the full program name is shown at the bottom. Yuk. Who on earth gave the OK for this software???

No search function as far as I can tell.
No manual tune (to avoid getting weak multiplexes).

The one good feature - teletext is more responsive than my Humax or Samsung TV (perhaps the data is cached?).

I'll use it to record HD, but finding the program to record will be a bit of a pain. Looks like it has been rushed out with incomplete software to get it on the shelves before the world cup.

I suggest - try before you buy (if you can find somewhere setup to do this).

I'll probably buy the Humax when it comes out, assuming that it will have all the features of the 9300T.
Having said that the Freesat Humax/Foxsat box also doesn't have picture and sound when in the program guide (unless this has been fixed with a software update) [I gave the box to my sister some months ago]. At least the graphics and program guide looked professional.

--Badsector

Hi


Yes quite a few of us have thought exactly the same. Considering Pace's background designing Sky boxes etc, it is a real head scratcher they have come up with what they have.

The EPG, which is something on a PVR you are going to spend the most time interacting with, isn't a good example. As for searching, well there is no search option at all, a big oversight.

Regards

Phil

I see it's already got competition, this sounds like a real bargain.
http://www.whathifi.com/News/Tesco-t...ch-TV-for-200/

Blimey that looks like a great deal - who's going to be the guinea pig then?

Haven't we seen that box somewhere else?

Initial review - I expect some more later when those who bought them this morning get home and plug them in.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/12289344-post95.html

- Simon.

Hi all

Anyone thinking of exchanging the Philip's for the Saegemcom one should be very wary. I had the Saagemcom for one day and to be honest its crap.

The sound had frequent half second drop outs.

There was massive volume differences between SD and HD channels.

The menu's very slow and very cheap looking.

The guide is so slow its useless.

The box is light flimsy and cheap looking

The display on the box is rubbish.

The only thing that's better than the Philip's (which I now have) is you can select a program to watch from the guide

I assume that was a pre-release/review model? I didn't think it was actually on sale yet anywhere, or is it?

Hi



Thanks for the update, I've been reading reviews online and have now cancelled mine as it wasn't due until next week from Amazon.

The sound drop-out is interesting and this must be an issue with the STi7105 chip (or driver issue), as both this and Pace share that chip (and I assume drivers) in common. I had the same drop out happening which was triggered by changing HDMI resolutions.

The SD and HD volume differences again are similar.

I suspect both the Pace and Sagemcom are using the same software from Logiways then. Keeping it all French, unfortunately just like their Golden Delicious, lacking somewhat

Regards

Phil

No it's available. Delivered by Comet on Friday. Took it back on Saturday morning and got the Philips

OK, thanks, I saw Play.com still listing it as a pre-order with release date of 15th June - I guess Sagemcom must have some kind of special deal with Comet.
Oh well. Another one I was waiting to look at turns out to be a dud.

Thanks for all the advice on the forum,I took mine back to comet for a refund yesterday,I had all the symptoms mentioned,the most annoying was the locking up happened about 6 times in 2 weeks,will now wait until all issues are sorted,shame because the picture was famtastic.
Mel north wales.

Hi


Sorry to hear your experience of the Pace/Philips matched a lot of our own.

I think we were all looking for an excuse to keep it in the hope new firmware fixing the major issues would be quick out the door, but any lack of confirmation of that from Pace/Philips just makes it potentially a very expensive door stop.

Regards

Phil

Thanks Phil,I was worried about being out of the honeymoon period with comet and being stuck with it,I will have to be more patient,thinking about getting the humax box to tide me over now I have had a hd fix Lol

Regards Mel.

The only slight concern I have (I say slight because, yes, i'd like to see some of the issues people are having resolved but personally the box wouldn't suit me so i won't be having one ) is that Philips do not follow through on what they have been telling customers up till now. But I really do not see any evidence of a lack of response or responsibility from the part of Philips yet. I too have phoned Philips before and it's much the same story common to what others have said when contacting Philips:
There seems to be confirmation about issues we see;
confirmation there are engineers assigned to fixing faults and problems;
confirmation there is a software update planned - most people are being told July by Philips.

Of course, it remains to be seen whether any replacement firmware will be made available in the near future - or if in the end it will eventually take several more months for anything to materialise.

But who are you and how did you get pace to come see you (maybe i should go back thought the forums to see who you are) . Anyway well done if they have listened to you and have an update your a star like many people i'm having a few bug on my box E.G :- EPG but i'm keeping as i like it and if this update works i'll be happy but if they bring out a new box I'll be unhappy and sue them (mind you i think i don't have a leg to stand on) .

I really wanted an HD recorder so I bought the Philips/Pace, I've had it since last Wednesday and despite the problems with the software I planned to keep it and wait for the update, the picture quality is amazing.
Tonight I did the multiple button push needed to rewind a programme and it's died, no picture and stuttering sound, I'll be phoning Comet for a refund tomorrow.
I am now back to using my Humax and it's a joy to have a machine that works, even better they've now announced the long awaited update.
HD was marvellous whilst it lasted but I'm not going to jump in again without seeing some reviews.

Hi,

I am not really a forum poster but I benefited from all the information here so I thought I should do my bit!

I had some trouble with the Philips and looking at the recent comments in this thread it seems I'm not the only one! It's a shame as I really liked the look of the Philips

in the end I had to return the box for the following reasons...

- very unclear programme guide and not easy to use at all
- even if I put up the TV and box volume to max, the box still is very silent (on HDMI) which is just weird
- loss of picture and sound when opening programme guide
- no manual buffer for the recordings

I picked up a Sagem RTI90-320 instead (or SagemCOM as they'v e renamed it ) from Comet. Even though I prefer the look of the Philips I am very happy with it. So....

- set up in about three minutes!
- manual tune and record
- clear (and attractive) programme guide
- preview picture in the programme guide so I don't miss
the current programme while browsing through the guide
- excellent (!) HD quality (definitely comparable to the
Philips one if not slightly better!)

Personal Summary:
- Price is similar
- Picture quality is similar (Sagem box maybe a bit better)
- Sagem box much easier to use (recordings, programme guide)
- Sagem box probably a bit slower than Philips box

Well taht's my tuppence worth. If Philips could sort the sound problems it might not be so bad but now I've got the Sagem one there's no reason to worry about it any more!

Hi


Thanks for the review.

The Sagemcom and the Philips share the same chip so quality should be very similar, even identical. Just goes to show the differences/bugs/oddities on the Philips are all down to the firmware, lets hope they can fix it.

Regards

Phil

I'm no expert, but...

That's right, the cheap cable "leaks" bits due to too much oxygen in the copper wire and low quality insulation.

Since the HDMI output from most boxes will be encrypted with HDCP, the data stream is essentially random looking. If bits "leak" out (or are corrupted), I would imagine serious picture corruption - *however* I can only guess at this.

Luckily my £2.50 1.8m HDMI cable from Ebay works perfectly at 1080p resolution (highest bit-rate I believe).

Anyone interested may want to google "HDMI eye diagram", to see how the digital datastream is encoded onto an analogue signal which is transmitted over the HDMI cable (aka transmission line). Yes the shape of the waveform degrades (certainly the longer the cable), but the *key* thing about digital is the ability to extract the 0's and 1's back perfectly at the other end.

Sorry this is off topic, but a bug-bear of mine (cheap vs expensive HDMI cables).

--Badsector.