[Jericho2010]

Top 3 and REASON?

[wintermute101]

dirty den

[Jericho2010]

Originally Posted by wintermute101

dirty den

Why?

80's Den or New Den?

[Pistol Whip]

Steve Owen - oozed charisma and knew what he wanted.

Trevor Morgan - a psychotic control freak but you couldn't take your eyes off him.

Den Watts - for nostalgia.

[Bridi£]

Originally Posted by Pistol Whip

Steve Owen - oozed charisma and knew what he wanted.

Trevor Morgan - a psychotic control freak but you couldn't take your eyes off him.

Loved Steve Owen but didn't really see him as a baddy....but Trevor
Now he was a really watchable nutter. Curiously, I was a bit sad to see him go....but the day Mo banjoed him with the iron was TV gold!

[Jericho2010]

Originally Posted by Pistol Whip

Steve Owen - oozed charisma and knew what he wanted.

Trevor Morgan - a psychotic control freak but you couldn't take your eyes off him.

Den Watts - for nostalgia.

I'd add Dan Sullivan into that list

[kreed82]

Baddie as in loveable baddie or baddie as in evil incarnate

If its the former

Steve owen
Chrissie watts
mad may

If its the latter

Phil mitchell 99-03
Trevor morgan
Nick cotton

[Jericho2010]

Originally Posted by kreed82

Baddie as in loveable baddie or baddie as in evil incarnate

If its the former

Steve owen
Chrissie watts
mad may

If its the latter

Phil mitchell 99-03
Trevor morgan
Nick cotton

Why Nick?

[Filiman]

Originally Posted by Jericho2010

Why?

80's Den or New Den?

They are both the same.

[Filiman]

Den Watts
Chrissie Watts
Steve Owen

Also liked:
George Palmer
Dan Sullivan
Cindy Beale
Archie Mitchell

[kyri]

Best Eastenders Villain: Trevor Morgan

Seriously scared the crap out of me. Alex was terrific actor and the Scottish accent was so creepy. One of Eastenders' greatest ever storylines and the reason it worked so well is because people like Trevor actually exist. Remember Christmas Day when he pushed Little Mo's head into the gravy? Oh, and when she attacked him with iron on New Year's Eve and they returned...and the body was gone!

[Filiman]

Originally Posted by kyri

Best Eastenders Villain: Trevor Morgan

Seriously scared the crap out of me. Alex was terrific actor and the Scottish accent was so creepy. One of Eastenders' greatest ever storylines and the reason it worked so well is because people like Trevor actually exist. Remember Christmas Day when he pushed Little Mo's head into the gravy? Oh, and when she attacked him with iron on New Year's Eve and they returned...and the body was gone!

Opps, forgot him.... add him to my "also like" list.

[Jericho2010]

Originally Posted by Filiman

They are both the same.

The characteristics were extremly diiferent in both eras

[Filiman]

Originally Posted by Jericho2010

The characteristics were extremly diiferent in both eras

I disagree..... because the writing was much poorer, some people tend to just say Den's representation was different.... but it wasn't. The character was basically the same. Of course there were differences - he was 14 years older. But it wasn't a case of personality transplants like with Billy Mitchell or Minty Peterson.

[Jericho2010]

Originally Posted by Filiman

I disagree..... because the writing was much poorer, some people tend to just say Den's representation was different.... but it wasn't. The character was basically the same. Of course there were differences - he was 14 years older. But it wasn't a case of personality transplants like with Billy Mitchell or Minty Peterson.

Den could never stay faithful but he wasn't sleazy, very nasty and soo over protective of Sharon.

When he came back he was wicked without the loveable charm minus the sarcasm.

[kreed82]

Originally Posted by Jericho2010

Why Nick?

You dont think a racist murdering scum that even attempted to kill his mother is evil?

[Filiman]

Originally Posted by Jericho2010

Den could never stay faithful but he wasn't sleazy, very nasty and soo over protective of Sharon.

When he came back he was wicked without the loveable charm minus the sarcasm.

I disagree. Den was very sleazy.... you don't impregnate your teenage daughter's best friend without being sleazy; hence the nickname "Dirty" Den. The difference was he had the charm in the 80s, whereas in the 00s that had largely gone. BUT that is how it should be - he was a lot older.

Similarly, whilst he wasn't that over-protective of Sharon in the 80s, she was still very spoilt and was his "princess". After being away for so long it is only natural that he became more obsessive.

The only thing wrong with Den's second stint was that, after his initial return, it wasn't written very well.... but that was because of a lot of factors, including Grantham's supension, which prevented the writers from having the time to properly develop issues.

Den was the same; he was still very manipulative, conniving, and he still could be very charming, just not as charming as before. Again, only natural imo.

But he was always sleazy.... the only real difference is that many viewers (though NOT all) in the 80s found him sleazy in a loveable way; this did not occur in the 00s. But I also think that that is a sign of shifting popular morality and also because of Grantham's off-air actions.

[Filiman]

The BIG thing you have to remember about Den's return is Leslie Grantham's "sex" scandal, and the way that coloured the reception and perpcetion of the character.... only now are we starting to get away from that and being able to see exactly what was actually on-screen and just judging that.

Den return in September 2003, and this immediate return was highly successful.... it boasted ratings enormously, EE began beating Corrie again, and whilst the press didn't like it, polls conducted AT THE TIME found that more viewers than not did. His return was very successful.

What then began to happen is things tappered off, as was inevitable because the hype was simply so enormous. Imagine all the stuff about Archie's murder and the live ep but times that by 5. People's expectations were enormously high..... and then the scandal hit. The charaacter was never the same after that, and everyone turned on him. Den became Grantham - a dirty old man.

[kreed82]

The funny thing about den's return is that the EP at the time didnt even know that what made the character (apart from a formidable woman) was the vic.They had him wondering around the square aimlessly for most of his stint.It wasnt until it was announced that he was axed that they finally gave him the pub and made him like the den of old..

[Filiman]

Originally Posted by kreed82

The funny thing about den's return is that the EP at the time didnt even know that what made the character (apart from a formidable woman) was the vic.They had him wondering around the square aimlessly for most of his stint.It wasnt until it was announced that he was axed that they finally gave him the pub and made him like the den of old..

Agree entirely. When Den got the Vic back it was very much like seeing the character of old.... I got goosebumps. Him and Chrissie worked so well behind the bar; every bit as good as him and Angie imo.

It was such a shame he was only in the Vic for a month and a half; but it really reinvigorated his character. Had he got the Vic at the end of 2003 instead of the end of 2004 it may have made all the difference, even in spit of the scandal.

Unfrotunately, I don't think they knew what to do with Alfie in that case. Alfie was a very popular character, and I think they were scarred of what would happen to him without the Vic. But by the end of 2004 there was such pressure on the show that it no longer mattered.

[juliebaird]

Archie Mitchell, he was pure evil and he also raped his own daughter x

[Murray Mint]

Den Watts

I liked Den's style. He could easily wind somebody up just with his sarcasm and dry wit. Nobody can ever replace the King of Walford!

Johnny Allen

Johnny was a bit like Jekyll and Hyde, though I preferred Johnny's dark side.

Terry Bates

He was just a psycho!

[CharlieC95]

Trevor Morgan scared me
I was only little when I watched the episodes with him in but he was the most deluded character ever. But now I laugh at the fact I was scared of him. But I always found it scary when he had a physcotic moment and his eyes popped out of his head and then you could tell he was about to flip. Talk about scary. Even had nightmares of him after the episode where he died, thought he might've been in my house waiting to hurt me or something.

[BumbleSquat]

Phil Mitchell - 1999-2003 era - pure menacing and seriously messed up. The mental abuse and manipulation towards Lisa was sometimes hard to watch. He was really scary in the scenes where he's trying to find out where Lisa went from Sonia and Jamie.

Trevor Morgan - raping Little Mo the night before Lynne's wedding, pushing her head into her Xmas dinner and brutally beating her when he found her contraceptive pills. By the end though, I felt they'd turned him slightly panto - Little Mo conveniently dressed as Little Red Riding Hood and Trevor as the big bad wolf only hyped that.

I'm really struggling to name a third as I can't think of anyone who seemed truly villainous. The likes of Archie Mitchell, Steve Owen or Janine Butcher seem far too camp and slightly comedic to me. They never made me feel uneasy watching them on-screen whereas the 2 I have mentioned did.

Special mention goes to Paul Trueman. Not a villain but he just seemed so cool compared to all of them...

[EELover]

Johnny Allen
Archie Mitchell
Dan Sullivan