Harking way back to Doomsday in 2006, I was thinking about The Cult of Skaro. I wander if it would have been more interesting to reveal the daleks earlier on in Army of Ghosts (like pre-credits sequence, seeing as the cybermen were a given really) and then have the cliffhanger as the proposed alliance at the end of Army of Ghosts. (I still feel this would have benefited from being a three parter, thus eliminating a need for Love and Monsters ). And imagine the plot opportunities if they had become an allegiance!!!!

Does anyone feel that this would have also meant the dalek story could have been so much better in Series 3, as that decided to deal with the daleks proposed alliance with humanity to form a new dalek species....

I think a three parter would have been good but an alliance between the Daleks and the Cybermen would IMO have gone against the nature of the Dalek's xenophobic/genocidal nature. I liked the idea of three sides fighting each other/humans getting caught between two superior (technologically speaking!) races.

Yes, I totally agree with this side of things, and a number of people I know thought this was a missed oppertunity. But a Cyberdalek/Dalekmen story doesn't really seem appropriate- the kind of idea you'd have when there are no more left to tell and the show has become very tired (lets hope it doesn't happen). I did however think that it worked quite well in the Daleks in Manhattan story as the character of Dalek Sec was intriguing, for me anyway. I believe the Manhattan story gets a lot of undeserved hate- it was far from perfect, and still probably the least favoured of the modern dalek stories, but I thought it made for a good story- the only thing I never really bought was the Lazlow/Tallulah romance. I also preferred it to The Lazarus Experiment which followed this story.

The Daleks were always going to be superior to the first-generation Cybermen, and the Daleks also had absolutely no need of them. While I don't think the Daleks are above accepting an alliance if it furthers their goals (as long as they can turn on their inferior associates afterwards), they would have to be in more dire straits than that.

Oddly enough, that story was a similar sort of set-up to the Angels story - set up the ominous presence of a threat, make it into certain doom, and then let it play second fiddle to an even bigger threat.

erm....

Cybermen: You could defeat the Cybermen with four Daleks?
Dalek: We could defeat the Cybermen with ONE Dalek!

They are superior in one respect

They should of had the daleks or the cybermen, does'nt matter which, team up with the humans to destroy cybermen/daleks and then have them suddenly turn on the humans. Basically destroy the cybermen/daleks and then thank the humans by destroying them.

except that 1 dalek>5m cybermen>6 b people, so 4 daleks > 5m cyberman + 6 b [people


QED

Not necessarily!

10 > 8 > 4 but that doesn't mean that 10 > 8 + 4!

re read it

x>y>z

=>

4x> (y+z)

Aaaah! Maths! Run everybody!...

Another missed opportunity is Harry Saxon. I think showing his facing in passing once or twice earlier in series 3 would have heightened the drama at the end if Utopia as we "the viewers" recognise it as the Prime Minister and Marthas recognition of his voice means something.

Another missed oppertunity was Donna in The End of Time, but so many oppertunities about this story were missed. Also, I really thought that the olympic flame in Fear Her was going to be linked with the 'torchwood' idea as in the wood of the torch, oh never mind

Indeed. If the world is ever threatened by a conspiracy of Media studies graduates and sociologists, you have my permission to use the antidote.