Sorry mate, but Fear Her stank like an unwashed ladygarden...

It's funny - asides from the fact that I personally rather enjoyed Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution I have to say these two episodes are also among my two nieces favourite Doctor Who stories so far. They are both in their teens, about the age I was during the Davison era, and in terms of entertainment value for that age group I think the story was perfect, much as at the time I really loved stories such as Time Flight which although clearly not a great story I can still enjoy due to the nostalgic elements involved in re-watching today.

refresh my memory please someone, what was Fear Her about? (i generally dont really notice the names of eps tbh )

s'ok dont bother i read up on it. the olympic torch one, yeah that one was balls

What kills this is that no dalek would ever commit the heresy of Dalek Sec. I quite like DIM (Miranda Raison in a showgirl outfit goes a long way), but the whole human dalek sucks. However compared to the ascendent Doctor of LotTL it is paradise.

L&M proves that Peter Kay isn't Miranda Raison.

Fear Her is terrible, with some highly questionable stuff as well.

Lazarus is also pretty poor and features lousy CGI which will look awful in 5 years.

Every time I watch L&M I am forced to raise the bounty on Peter Kay.



j/k in case something nasty does happen to PK and I'd never watch L&M again

The Sontaran two parter in Series 4 also gets a lot of bad mentions when it is in fact one of the highlights of the RTD era for me. Again, it was by no means perfect but Helen Raynor managed to keep the consistent present day Earth invasions refreshing here, and also payed homage to a good old villain.

For me, the episodes passed me by at turbo speed and I absolutely loved them. The Doctor's Daughter on the other hand seemed quite bad- Georgia Moffett did a brilliant job, as did Catherine Tate and David Tennant. For the first time, I was unimpressed with Martha's performance- she had a semi-breakdown over the Hath that died, eventhough she travelled the Earth for a year and witnessed untold destruction, but we get no reference to an unstable state of mind.

Never understood why a fish-man with his own breathing liquid should have had so much trouble with a pond *shrug*

I think the only two new Who episodes I've really disliked were Love and Monsters and Last of the Time Lords. While there there have been other episodes I've thought below the usual standard (eg New Earth, The Lazarus Experiment, the Slitheen stories from Series 1), I've still liked them, just not as much as other stories.

It wasn't a pond, it was some form of sinking sand, you can hear the Fish guy's breathing apparatus smash under the pressure of it as he went under.

Bet there were no ducks too

Last of the Time Lords was completely cringeworthy at times, and a potentially great plotline was ruined by the over comical Master (which was scripted, not by the way he was played) and the hero-worship of the Doctor. And the chanting of 'Doctor' at the end - oh dear.

Fear Her wasn't that bad to be honest. I particularly liked the fact the Olympic Stadium was nowhere near ready seemingly - that was very apt and probably prophetic. I liked the idea behind the plot. It was simplistic but it worked.

Love and Monsters was never going to be that successful - it was Doctor Lite without a fearful villain. The acting was good, but the plot was weak.

Daleks of Manhattan had a good base to work from, but the pig slaves and the hamlet sized Hooverville took away from the storyline. Again, it wasn't dreadful but could've been better. I wouldn't watch it again.

i like this ^^^

I had forgotten that Martha was in that episode. Mind you, its one of my least favourite episodes. Dunno why.

I love the individuality that everyone shows when they flock to subscribe to a subject of personal taste that rears its head for public approval....

The way so many show such solitary opinion and such a massed singular thought strengthens the meme of the solo hive. I'm so happy that so many individuals can all show the same independant ideas...

But I'm also glad that I belong to a single group.

D

Yes both things were mentioned...with Power of words going as far back as TSC, and the archangel, as far as 42, but talked in detail in Sound of Drums.


The only thing I don't like about that story is the execution of the way the Doctor comes back into his form, going by what DT says in his video diary, and having come across the script online....it is described as a ball of psychic energy....but it comes across like faiy dust unfortunatly...and also I cringe at the way Jack says Doctor...but a good little cringe....the rest of the story is brilliant, even the so called funny scenes are immensly dark, real true bl;ack comedy, for example the Master dancing to the song "I can't decide"....and actually talking about wanting to kill the Doctor, and treating him like a dog....that scene alone is really multi-layerd powerful stuff.


And the so called God stuff isn't as simple as people make it out to be....after all, and please correct me on this whoever has more knowledge, but according to Christianity, when Jesus rose from the dead, did his enemies decide that they would rather die themsleves than follow him? Did his friends/deciples decide that they couldn't be around him anymore and that other people were more important to them? Did, once he rose, be forgotton within minutes by all those who believed in him?

I'm guessing the answer is no.....that alone shows that the Doctor is no messiah.....and RTD wasn't showing him as it...but challenging that view instead...the idea he has the capabilities of being so....but actually doesn't deserve or get that status at all.

That's not really multi-layered you know. That's just hubris - the Master enjoying his victory. The multi-layered part is the Christ allegory and the Doctor's forgiveness of the Master - something he's been unwilling to do for anyone else.

If they copied everything, it wouldn't be much of a story. Having a messianic theme doesn't necessarily mean duplicating the life of Jesus.

Besides, if you want Jesus allegory, you want to watch the TV movie.

True it does look like some sort of miracle, would have been better to show the energy coming from the satellites and flowing into the doctor.

Yes the Master is showing his victory....but its not as simple as that, it showing how far he is thinking, how he is treating his own missus (the black eye)...in that dance scene alone, we realise how dark this master really is underneath all that OTT arogance....its multi-layerd...

But that is what I mean when i say such perception is challenged on whether he is like christ....the fact that he is unbale to really achieve any of those things, depsite trying to act like him, in terms of everyone thinking about him, him coming back, him forgiving. This idea that what is on the surface isn't the case at all. He forgives the Master....and what does the Master choose to do, die....meaning his forviness is nothing, it means nothing...in fact it scares the Master even more!....the Idea that the whole world that knew him by name, now have no idea who he is...that really it wasn't ever about him being their salvation at all, he was just a source to means....and then Martha, who went around the world talking about him....ended up realising her own abilities and strengths....which while she was with the Doctor, seemed to fade in the background because she always felt second best. The imagery is challehging how we see things, how we make things into worthy of worship...when in fact they are not. So its challenging those imageries not confirming the Doctor to be Christ like.

I like Fear her. I found the story about her dad's death and how much control he had her and her mother's life still affected them, rather sad.