My first post but a long term follower of this forum. I was just wondering about this series 2 supposidly weaker episodes - The Beast Below and Victory Of The Daleks. I feel both of these would have been much better as 2 parters as both needed time to build up the suspense. The best single parters seem to be able to tell a compact story and I personally feel RTD was good at getting this balance mostly right .

I don't think The Beast Below would work as a 2 parter cos it didn't even work as a single episode. However, I agree with you Victory Of The Daleks might have worked better as a two-parter but I think maybe we've had enough Dalek 2 parters over the last few years.

Overall I think the majority of the 2 parters have worked since the new series started. The only one for me that didn't was strangely enough The End Of Time. The 2nd part especially sagged quite badly in the middle and had the regeneration sequence not beeen so strung out it could possibly have been told in a solitary one hour episode.

I'm not going to get in the RTD thing because it'll inevitably start the usual tedious debate about who was better. I will say Steven Moffatt wrote several good single episode stories dring the RTD era and I think we're in for some good ones as this current series continues, This Saturday's episode looks well good.

I agree that this should not be about RTD v Moffatt. I felt that The Beast Below felt like a story rushing to it's end. The suspense could have been built up slowly.

I think the majority of stories would work better as two parters. For me, most of the time 45 minutes just isn't long enough to tell a proper story-even the best ones seem to rush by at breakneck speed. A two parter is 90 minutes, the same amount of screen time as the old four parters in the days of the 25 minute episodes. That, I think, is the ideal time in which to tell a Doctor Who story.

Would you say an hour is more appropriate? I thought The Eleventh Hour suited an hour quite well, but there again some of the Specials were an hour and they sucked...big time!

They need to change back to the old series way of showing episodes. They can still fit it all into 13 episodes, just not as many stories. (Trial of a Timelord had 13 episodes in total)

I think one parters work best with small stories. Dalek, Blink & Midnight were perfect examples of this.

Two parters need to be big and more complex stories. The latest two parter is just such an example.

Of the new episodes certainly Victory of the Daleks would have been better as a two parter. Not sure about the Beast Below.

Looks like Vampires in Venice is going to be a better one parter. We shall see.

I think both TBB and ViotD could have done with a little more run time to flesh things out a bit as they were both under 42 mins (and TBB included a teaser for Ep3).

Not sure if they could have been stretched to 2 parters though.

Vampires of Venice at 47 mins is getting that little more run time.

An hour certainly works better than 45 minutes. A few notable exceptions aside, 45 minutes is really too short.


It had 14, in fact. But at half the running time of current episodes so you're looking at the equivalent of seven new series episodes.

Yes but they were thirteen 25min episodes not around 45min for the new series. All the new one parters are the same length as two parters in the old series and the new two parters are the same as four episodes in the old series.

As I have pointed out one parters work fine with the right story. Dalek, Blink & Midnight would have been too long as two parters.

To be honest, don't know about anyone else, but I couldn't go back to the old 25 minute format at the moment. The 45 minutes go too quickly as it, time seems to fly by, that's a sign of a good show!

That's why I said about the hour episodes, they are just about right...if the episode is good enough!

I meant It was 26 episodes, lasted longer but it was the same length in total.

Definitely 2 parters. With a one-off you tend to end up losing characterisation (i.e. non-essential plot dialogue). Interesting that the best one-off's (Blink, Midnight) have essentially no DR-companion dialogue at all.

There have been quite a few good one parters. As well as the ones already mentioned I would also include classics such as The Unquiet Dead, School Reunion, Tooth & Claw and Smith & Jones. I'm sure I've missed one or two!

So far in this series, the only one I think needed to be a two parter was Victory....the whole pacing of that story just jarred with me...not one scene seemed to have a natural flow to the next, so it really made it less enjoyable than maybe it could have been for me.

So maybe 1 in 3 or 4 single stories have been good?

Also, most of the worst have been single episodes...fear her, love and monsters, idiots lantern, aliens of london...

I realise this is a completely off the wall idea and a concept that probably wouldn't work in the TV or movie business, but I've always been of the opinion that a story has a natural length and a filmed adaptation of a story should run it's natural course...

If that meant some Doctor Who episodes were 20 minutes long to tell a complete and rounded story then so be it; by the same token, some may be two hours long.

Only the massive Shakespearian stories would then need to be two parters...

I know it would play havoc with TV schedules, but hey, we pay enough licence fee, make 'em work for it.

D

How about a 13 episode series, consisting of 5 double episode stories, rounded off by a 3 part finale?

I would prefer to see 4 2 parters and 4 x 45 minute episodes and an hour opener. The problem with so many 2 parters is it takes away the impact of them being the big episodes. Something like this would work.

Episode 1 (60 minutes)
Episode 2
Episodes 3 and 4
Episode 5
Episodes 6 and 7
Episode 8
Episodes 9 and 10
Episode 11
Episodes 12 and 13

I would assume scriptwriters are used to writing to a target length.

As you say, it plays havoc with the scheduling, so what is your reaction if they move a show around so it may start at 7.15 one week and 7.50 the next? Quite.

Ah the licence fee. Well, the BBC makes money from shows like Who, and that is why they need it to be 45 mins (to sell it to channels with ads).

I guess I'm alone in wanting a return to the old 30 minute episodes, with 2, 3 or 4 parters

obviously there have been some great 45min episodes in New Who, but I always feel the structure doesn't allow for good cliffhanger tension.

it seems likes there's the usual 25-30 set up/slight peril/conclusion - which doesn't grip me often. I miss the old style thing of the companion getting separated from the Doctor and having their own mini adventure, before final part conclusion.

Obiviously it would be harder/longer to film 26 half hour shows, as well as fitting them into BBC1 schedule. Yet I'd still like some sort of return to classic Who (even if it meant splitting series in two)

also I'm a little bit bored of every New Who series having to have an overall theme/hidden message building up to episode 12 & 13.

I'd go for six two parters and a single parter, effectively the equivalent of six four parters and a two parter in the old days. A three parter is about the same as the old six parters and while many of those worked pretty well, others tended to get bogged down about two thirds of the way in.

No

Not really, actually 26x30 is less filming than 13x60 because of recap and teaser. The argument would probably be can we really expect people to watch a 4 wk story....

I guess I should have read the thread more thoroughly


I guess it'd depend on the strength of the story, the closest we've had in New Who is the Utopia/The Sound of Drum/Last of the Timelords semi-three parter

maybe 4 parts is too long, but a bunch of two or three parter might work. Probably no chance of it ever happening, as I reckon Beeb are quite happy with 45 min length shows

most shows may have over reaching arcs but their main stories are single ep ones

however they all mainly have established characters

with dr who each week you have a whole raft of new ones to introduce so quite a bit of the ep is spent getting to know the characters

i much prefer 2 parters if only that i like cliffhangers!