This is just wild speculation but one thing struck me immediately when watching the Vampires episode.
The Doctor showed his library card to Mrs Fish. Why would the Doctor need a library card? Was it for the central library of Gallifrey? Unlikely. So what library could he possibly need a card for?
I can think of only one library in the universe that he might have one for. Huge library the size of a planet maybe? One with an enormous THE as its only title? One where he found nothing but silence the last time he arrived there?
Silence in the Library was a Moffat story. So I watched it again this morning.
Take a close look again. Remember when they breached the computer security system and he talked to CAL? There was an arcing lightning flash across the bottom of the data screen. I saw it on two separate instances. Its maybe not identical but its awfully similar to the crack in Amy's wall.
Could the Vashta Nerada be responsible for the silence thats coming?
Could the crack story arc have started halfway through season four? Was the Moff confirmed as the new chief writer back then?
Just a thought or five.

Well the address on the Library card is for the junkyard where he parked the TARDIS in 1963 for a few months while Susan went to school.

So just a library in London I would think. The First Doctor didn't have any psychic paper so would have needed a card to borrow books

Ah, but as has been pointed out elsewhere: even today few library cards have photos on them let alone those issued in 1963

But, it does seem to have been in the planning for a while: the Cyberking in TND. The Doctor pointed out at the time how odd it was that no-one remembered it. So, yes and no.

Ah, but WhoEarth isn't our earth, maybe Library cards with Photo's were introduced in the 1960's there.

I think you'll have just upset a lot of people who have been trying to pin down the date for 5:1 if WhoEarth isn't the same as ours

If the crack has appeared throughout time and space how come previous doctors haven't noticed it?

Doc11 said in Flesh and Blood he should have noticed ages ago. Perhaps he's always been a head of it before.

Previous Doctors were always on the move, so perhaps they just didn't encounter anyone who had been effected by the crack, nor were they aware that events had been removed from history. Though it seems unlikely the Time Lords wouldn't have informed the Doctors 1-8.

Another thing, the crack seems to be honed in on Amy, so maybe it only appears where she will be or has been. This would mean it only exists in different times (past and present) where Amy is present. So the crack still removes other events from history without being present at that point in history.

For example, the Doctor sent the Cyberking to another world. Maybe the crack removed the Cyberking from time then, which would mean it never existed in Victorian London, and therefore nobody would have seen it, rather than the crack passing through Victorian London and changing the events of The Next Doctor.

The crack seems to have been created in some future event involving Doc11. So from that moment it follows Doc11 and Amy through time somehow effecting historical events without passing through those events.

This is all speculation, and until we know the very nature of the crack I guess we will remain bewildered.

Just thought of another thing in The Waters of Mars, Adelaide still remembered the Dalek from TSE/JE. This suggests that the crack had not yet removed the events from time by 2059. So it seems like it doesn't just remove the event, but alter the timeline.

Been a while since I watched The Next Doctor but I don't recall any dialogue regarding why history doesn't remember The Cyberking.

I could be wrong, but I suspect there wasn't any forward planning by RTD and Moffat at the time of The Next Doctor. I would think Moffat subsequently chose The Cyberking as an example of history being altered by the crack to clear up the big question of why it wasn't remembered. Moff could easily have picked another event, but that was probably the most recent problematic event.

Can't find the exact quote but Jackson Lake says something about the Cyberking going down in History and the Doctor wonders to himself why it wasn't.

10 says the now infamous "Yeah, funny that." in response to the fact that no one seemed to remember the Cyber King stomping around London - it was probably just a hook left dangling for another time not necessarily intended for this context but just proved the best example SM could find to illustrate where he is coming from with the concept for Series 5.

I think that was just a bit of artistic licence so that they could have a nod to Classic Who with the card having belonged to the 1st Doctor.

I remember now. Taken in context when The Next Doctor aired it seems to me more in the vain of the 7th Doctor's comment about people not remembering events like The Loch Ness Monster during the Zygon invasion.

Well, Next Doctor was written/filmed quite a bit before SM officially got the heads up of being the next Head Writer, so I don't think this was a reference to his arc.

But, as with every unintentional connection there's been in the show, its very clever.

For instance, Wilf was only meant to be a cameo role...but ended up being the guy who hammered the final nail into Ten's Coffin.

There was that plot of Dalek Caan manipulating time so that Donna would end up creating 10.5, but Caan said something like "This would always have happened...I only helped..." which may or may not have been a hint that there was a far more sinister connection between The Doc and the Noble family.

So arguably, if you join together these tenuous references, the arc surrounding the Tenth Doctor's death started as early as 'Doomsday'/'The Runaway Bride'.

But only accidentally.

Library of St John the Beheaded?

University library cards usually have photos on them these days, even for non students, but I don't know about in 1963

Thanks for the explanation. The Amy explanation sounds plausible, but as you say, why did the Time Lords not know about it? I think I'll just enjoy watching the programme and see how things pan out. Speculating about this crack hurts my brain!

In 63 the only thing you'd own with your photo on it was your passport. Libraries had a little card ticket inside each book which was kept in a tiny card holder with your name on when you borrowed a book.
Might have been different on Gallifrey of course.

Blimey, I'd forgotten about them!

The Doc himself has said that the crack is everywhere - whatever event causes the crack pushes it both into the past and future. It's not following either Amy or the Doctor, but because it is everywhere, of course it will be around whenever they are. If the crack was following Amy, how could The Sisters of the Water come through one - and why would there have been many cracks in their home planet of Saturnyne? She said herself that there were many cracks - some tiny; some as big as the sky. Neither Amy nor the Doctor were anywhere around that planet.

The cracks are everywhere, not following Amy.

Good point.

The crack might be everywhere in time, but I still think perhaps it is only visible to those existing in and around the same time it was created.

I'm probably trying too hard to explain continuity errors it has thrown up. The irony is that Moffat uses it to clear up some continuity, but at the same time it creates more problems.

But then I couldn't ever really accept that Doctors 1-9 had no knowledge of Torchwood.

YET.

If the Doctor hadn't reached Amy in his personal timeline, then the cracks wouldn't exist anywhere. By picking up Amy and making her a time traveller, he could have triggered the events that cause the explosion that creates the cracks. And they could still be fracturing along Amy's past, present and future.

Besides, only one side of the cracks are centred on Amy anyway - Amy's not been to the Atraxi prison, or the end of the universe either.

And they'll now never get to go - the crack destroyed it, so it will have never existed now. The Sisters of the Water are remnants, like the paradoxes caused in the last two-parter. Their travelling through the crack was time travelling, and we know that leaves them with their memories intact. This also negates the 'Amy Effect' - she needn't have been near/on it for the cracks to have effected it.

Also, it was stated that there were numerous other worlds on the other side of those cracks - Amy won't be going near even a fraction of those worlds. My impression is that whilst Amy is the catalyst/cause of the cracks, they are not dependant on her for anything other than their existence. They are not following her around. Any time traveller would stumble across tehm - it's just that we're only seeing it from the perspective of these two.
Last edited by sebbie3000 : 10-05-2010 at 14:49

Sorry, the crack destroyed what? The Atraxi prison?

It's never been said that all the cracks erase things from time - the crack in the Byzantium specifically opened up to the end of the time, it was the time energy spilling out of it that erased the angels from history.


Agree.

Disagree. Not that they're following her around in any intelligent way, but that they're tied to her, like the ripples from a boat passing by creating waves on a distant shore. Frankly, if they get through without drawing a parallel with butterflies flapping their wings, I'll be surprised.
Last edited by johnnysaucepn : 10-05-2010 at 14:59

Sorry - the Sisters of the Water home planet of Saturnyne.



I understand what you mean, but at the moment the only in-show explanation of them seems to disagree with what you're saying. It might be that when the full arc is revealed, you are indeed correct - and I shall concede to you!