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the Doctor's genocide question
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serton
10-05-2010
Originally Posted by neel:
“Genocide is the wrong word. He has never commited genocide. Thats very very silly.

I think the people talking about genocide need to get their head round the meaning of the word, then we can have a sensible discussion.

Untill that point i'm giving this thread a wide berth.”

Excuse me the Valeyard used the exact words Genocide regarding the Doctor's destruction of the Vervoid species
neel
10-05-2010
Originally Posted by serton:
“Excuse me the Valeyard used the exact words Genocide regarding the Doctor's destruction of the Vervoid species”

Just because it was in a Dr Who script doesn't make mean it is the correct use of the word.



According to the UN -

"any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

It really needs to be Systematic. And usually carried out by some kind of ruling group, there is usually dehumasisation involved. There has to be "intent to destroy", not protect which is what the Dr has always had as his key motivation.

Genocide is a very specific term in international law. Its not something you can just use as a synonym of mass murder even if the victims are larely of one race.

For example the dropping of the atomic bomb during the second world war may have been immoral but it was not genocide, that is far closer to what the Dr has done, a morally questionable violent act resulting in mass death, but with the motivation of preventing death on a greater scale.

I've not seen trial of a time lord but i would be utterly shocked if what he did even comes close to the proper use of the word genocide.
aardvark85
10-05-2010
The Jagaroth in City of Death
Granny McSmith
10-05-2010
Originally Posted by poppycod:
“Is the Doc different from Slobodan Milosovic? (that is his real name, he was a Yugoslavian dictator not a Dr Who character)?”

Yes. The Doctor is fictional and so are the alien invaders of Earth he defeats in a fun sci-fi programme . The comparison is offensive, IMO
poppycod
10-05-2010
Originally Posted by neel:
“Just because it was in a Dr Who script doesn't make mean it is the correct use of the word.



According to the UN -

"any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

It really needs to be Systematic. And usually carried out by some kind of ruling group, there is usually dehumasisation involved. There has to be "intent to destroy", not protect which is what the Dr has always had as his key motivation.

Genocide is a very specific term in international law. Its not something you can just use as a synonym of mass murder even if the victims are larely of one race.

For example the dropping of the atomic bomb during the second world war may have been immoral but it was not genocide, that is far closer to what the Dr has done, a morally questionable violent act resulting in mass death, but with the motivation of preventing death on a greater scale.

I've not seen trial of a time lord but i would be utterly shocked if what he did even comes close to the proper use of the word genocide.”

By that definition the Doc has certinaly committed genocide on a muber of occasions.
poppycod
10-05-2010
Originally Posted by Granny McSmith:
“Yes. The Doctor is fictional and so are the alien invaders of Earth he defeats in a fun sci-fi programme . The comparison is offensive, IMO”

The comparison is sound - if you find it offensive then that is your prerogative of course.

But how can you deplore the real life genocides yet condone the actions of a character whose actions have directly led to genocides?
Granny McSmith
10-05-2010
Originally Posted by poppycod:
“Is the Doc different from Slobodan Milosovic? (that is his real name, he was a Yugoslavian dictator not a Dr Who character)?”

I was actually answering this question, not condoning genocides.

The Doctor is fictional. That is how he differs from Milosovic.
johnnysaucepn
11-05-2010
Unless we're writing a United Nations brief on the Doctor's activities, I don't think we need worry about their definition. The word existed long before they needed to categorise it for their purposes.

You don't need to have read a law book to know what theft is. You do if you want to prosecute someone for it.
neel
11-05-2010
Originally Posted by johnnysaucepn:
“Unless we're writing a United Nations brief on the Doctor's activities, I don't think we need worry about their definition. The word existed long before they needed to categorise it for their purposes.

You don't need to have read a law book to know what theft is. You do if you want to prosecute someone for it.”

Well it was first used about 50 years before the UN definition, and its use then didn't differ much from what the UN settled on.

And while you don't need a law book to know what theft is, the law book might be worth a look if you find yourself using theft when you actually mean fraud, which is what is going on here.
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