Thousands of girls auditioned for this show. There were several rounds to go through before they got to sing inf ront of a panel in a theatre, Then there was Dorothy Farm, the whittling down to 10 (11) places.

So why then has ALW used "You're just not right for the role" as a comon reason for sending someone home? Surely all the girls MUST have been considered right to get this far?

It also implies that there is only one Dorothy - that is b*****ks - many people are able to play any role, which is what happens with understudies/alternates/cast changes etc.

I think there are some girls that they just like so much that they want to put them in just because they want to see what they can do. I also think they may have been trying out different types for Dorothy until they finally settled on a firm idea of what they wanted. I do think some contestants who started out as cannon fodder (Steph) have risen in the panel's estimation, while some who were favorites early on (Stephanie) faded. My assessment of the four remaining from what the judges think (in alphabetical order):

Danielle--I think she's the preferred candidate based on all the judges' comments. There has been no indication that ALW or the panel have changed their minds, either. I think they have changed their minds about their backups, but I still think Danielle is the one they want the most for the role.

Lauren--She's the professional fallback. The panel loves her, but I think they want her in the final as a reliable pair of hands who would be able to do well in the show just in case the public doesn't agree with the panel at the final vote.

Sophie--I get a divided vibe about her. I don't think the panel likes her very much, but I think ALW does. It will be interesting to see what happens if she's in a sing-off with Steph.

Steph--She has gone up and down, I think. She started out as pure cannon fodder--someone they liked but expected to go early. Lately, though, it seems like she has risen to become the number two fallback. I think ALW would be OK if Steph won, but I still don't think she's his favorite.

I totally get your point, it's not like they picked their favourite then nine random others.

But I guess it sounds a wee bit better to say to someone "You're just nore right for the role" than "there's others who could play the role better."

Perhaps they should say "You're not the best candidate for the role" or something, idk.

I have to say I agree with you to an extent OP. I never understood why they choose Amy and went on and on about her not being Dorothy.

This always puzzles me. Fair enough if they realise a girl doesn't fit the role for some reason part way through the live shows, but when it was the first live show, with 20 girls, they went on about Amy not being right/too old/too glamourous/etc. So why put her through even to that stage? And they totally surprised me by putting her through to the final 10 (even though I liked her and wanted her through, I knew they didn't). It was inevitable that she would be out when she was in that first sing-off

Good point, OP. I think they got so distracted with choosing different "types" of Dorothy, that they picked people that are entirely unsuitable for the role. They should have just picked the ones they felt were best for playing Dorothy from day 1.

Its happened in most of the shows though...

We had Simona and her strong accent in Maria.... she had it at the auditions but they still put her through - so why use it as reason to kick her out in the live shows? Leanne was "too young" for the role but she was young when she auditioned....

There was someone in Joseph who was deemed unsuitable.....he could do no right in the live show.

In IDA ALW LOATHED Ashley - to the point of telling her to get on the bus... but they put her into the finals... likewise he had problems with Tara and Cleo and to a lesser extent Sarah ... and they grew to hate Jodie as well and didn't bother hiding it.

This time round - they obviously had reservations about quite a few... as ALW said, 5 went through without any argument - the other 5 were the cause of a lot of discussion. It was obvious that Amy was never going to get it in a million years - so why put her through at the expense of someone like Camille or Claire Harborne?

I'm of the opinion that the live finalists on these things should ALL be considered capable of taking the role. They take long enough over the selection process to have a VERY good idea of vocal/ dancing/ acting ability, and they should put through only those who meet the standards they intend to apply. If someone can't dance - OUT!, if someone can't act - OUT! (even if they sing like an angel) If someone hasn't got the right look - OUT! If they have a strong accent which can't be overcome - OUT!

If the first audition is all about the vocal, the callbacks and the farm/school and the 20-10 stage can't identify those who meet the basic criteria for the role, they have got the wrong people doing the choosing. Stephanie's acting was always weak, as was Jenny's dancing, and Amy's look was never going to allow her to win. Yes they have nearly a year to train the winner up, but if they put them through even though they have something not quite right aboout them which was evident at auditions - DON'T use it as a rod to beat them with in the live shows. Surely out of the THOUSANDS who audition, they can find 12 any of whom they would be happy to win

Ooh I thought Camille was fantastic! I thought she was guaranteed final 11

I agree. I think sometime they are just not too sure. Like with Stephanie, ALW said 'in the acting I just had a moment of slight doubt, but i have no doubt you'll be back with us blablabla" so its not like he thought her acting was glaringly bad. Danielle got through, and she has issues with her voice. I think sometimes they see something special and make exceptions, in hope that other things will develop. But I agree with you they should then not turn around and use these things against them, ie, the way Amy looked! In actuality, I think they believe they could all play the part, especially with some training. Its just that when they kick them off they have to come up with a tangible reason besides 'i like so and so better for the role' to satisgy both the public and the girl in question... so they blame it on things like acting, dancing... lack of bonding with dog, etc.

I suspect some people are put in as well because this is a reality tv show and as well as casting for the role of Dorothy, they have to cast for the tv series. How dull would it be if ALW knew from the outset what sort of girl he wanted and then populated the entire top twenty with that kind of girl? If we assume that Danielle is his favourite (though I do get the impression he's still holding out for Sophie as well), can you honestly imagine watching eleven small, young looking girls with curly brown hair, relevant dance training, musical theatre voices and subtle acting skills fighting it out for the part of Dorothy? Or maybe 10 Danielle's and 10 Lauren's in case the Danielles failed? It would be very hard to justify (how can the public choose their kind of Dorothy if they've effectively got eleven girls with the same look and same experience level to choose between?) and wouldn't make very entertaining tv for a lot of people. Danielle fans might be over the moon, but the rest of the audience would switch off in droves. It would also make it deeply confusing to watch and incredibly difficult to choose a favourite!

I don't think they'd put someone in the top twenty who they knew could never play Dorothy (/ could never play Dorothy and would be popular enough to make it a possibility) but I do think they'll try to find a range of possible Dorothies, some of whom may be more or less suitable than others. They need people who lack experience in order to say that the show discover completely new talent. They need people who have some experience to make sure that if the non-experienced people fall flat on their faces, they've got some girls who can keep the show going. I'm sure that ALW went into this with an idea in mind of the kind of girl he wanted to see playing Dorothy but this isn't like a normal audition, he has to give the audience options. I don't think any two girls in the top ten filled exactly the same description, and that will have been to ensure that as many people as possible would like at least one of the girls. If ALW is lucky, by the end of the series either the public will have the same vision as him or he'll have seen enough of one of the other girls to be happy with her in the part. If he's unlucky, he'll just have to come around to the public's viewpoint. This series I get the impression he wouldn't be unhappy with any of the top 4, so it looks as though he's sorted!

LOL! This is a brilliant point.

Me too! It was awful that they put the other three in her group through and not her.

Brilliant post, franglemand. They got quite a contrasting set of contestants into the final 20, giving us all a fair choice. Of course, there are certain criteria that are a given (female, young, able to sing, two legs) but they gave us a fair amount of leeway.

Amy was not Dorothy, but she earned her place in the top 20 by virtue of being talented. The exposure has done her no harm at all, I'm sure.

I agree OP. It makes me laugh when I hear the panel say you are not a Dorothy, when they picked them as a Dorothy in the first place. Are they telling us they haven't a clue what they're doing!

I'm sure it doesn't take ALW with his years of casting experience all these weeks to pick a Dorothy. Of course even the best can get it wrong and I believe any 5 of the original 20 would make an excellent Dorothy. Shirley Temple was originally chosen to play Dorothy in the film version. Who knows if it would still have gone on to be such a major success with Shirley. I believe it would.

Its a tv show designed to attract publicity

As I've said before, some girls grow with the competition (Sophie, Steph), others start well and fade away (Jenny, Jessica), others are consistent without a proper breakthrough (Lauren, Danielle). Even with the top 6 as above, all of this is unknown during the selection process. In contrast to the other 3 series, even though Jessie outclassed Jodie on finals night, there is still everything to play for; there is a good argument for any of the 4 to win.

On the one hand they're casting for a West End musical. On the other, they're casting for an entertaining tv show. While they're doing this, they're aware that they may uncover talented people that may not quite fit the remit of the part in question but might well deserve some exposure that could direct them toward some other part.

Therefore, the final 10/11 include about 4/5 Dorothies that ALW would be quite happy with (for this series, Danielle, Lauren, Bronte (?), Stephanie, Sophie and possibly one or two others as well or in place. There are also others that he doesn't ever see as Dorothy but thinks could star somewhere else - Steph, Amy - that he thinks are worth putting through ahead of a couple of "clones" to provide variety and give them exposure. Then there are wild cards (Jessica(?) and Jenny) that he thinks might be okay in the role but isn't that secure with but they'll also provide some decent tv. Problems arise when those in the second and third category do better than predicted. In this series, Steph is good/professional enough not to be a disaster if voted through and the voting was close enough to be able to get rid of Jenny and Jessica on their first appearance in the bottom two.

The looking different and being distinct enough to gain support or problematic enough to justify sending home looks key. I think it would have been difficult to tell everyone apart if, say, Katie and young Claire has gone through, and the closer they get in ability or look, the more difficult it is to say who goes and who wins... Another problem is he tends to go for backups with age and experience even when he's set himself the target of something younger and edgier or different to how its been done before. He seems to side eventually with safety though and forgets what he said he originally wanted.

This series though looks a mess. Everyone's weaknesses are exposed and it looks a questionable group even though looked at another way everyone or nearly everyone is exceptionally talented. No one has been presented as atotally compelling Dorothy and many have been kept looking anything but.The safe option who was also, very capable and ought to have done well for looking like the original, has been in the bottom two and has had a few problems..The back up most like her was bizarrely removed . The alternative livelier, potentially funnier variants have been removed. The youngest option also went - leaving the experienced two plus Danielle and Sophie.

Not sure the outcome makes any sense - partly due to the voting and partly because he seems to have backed off options that might have been good ones and hastened some people's exit. Its far from clear from the record that he or the judges.makes all the calls right. Its far from clear too that anyone knows who could do what in 8-10 months time and too many past contestants now seem to have abilities and sides to them we never saw on previous series.

Spot on. At this point in time, it looks like we're not going to get that promised edgy Dorothy.

I think Steph could pull off an edgy Dorothy and so might Danielle, with some more acting guidance. So could Sophie, but I'm kind of resigned to the fact that she won't win.


xx

As I see it the show hopes to find 1 Dorothy, maybe an understudy? But I guess that ALW is also seeing what other roles he could fill in his many other productions...so many people from other years have done just this!
Amy was always an odd one to put through to me.... she could sing...just didnt stand a chance at looking young.... But I would love to see her as the good witch Glinda

Not sure how many people he has used - it may be support in other ways that matters or other people spotting talent themselves? . The other producers on the first two shows have used lots of contestants and Cameron has used Leanne, Sarah and 2 people who looked exceptional but didn't get into the top 10before now taking Sam. Abi was cast by Tim Rice and Jessie by Trevor Nunn. ALW took Aoife on when Connie's voice had problems, but for Chicago and Legally Blonde she had to impress Americans. The exceptions were Niamh who was used to develop Love Never Dies and has a role in it and Katie Hall from Nancy bootcamp who got to understudy Christine in Phantom.

Cameron cast Daniel Boys and Anthony Hansen too.

Isn't the producer of Grease one of the judges from Maria, he's cast Siobhan twice.

I could try and list all the people Bill Kenwright's used by last would be bordering on an essay!

I never understood why they put Amy in the top 11 when they clearly didn't see her as Dorothy.

Its logically because they didn't think anyone else belonged there or Amy filled the top 10 up because they had some other reason to excluded some people - like being too much like someone else or being disqualified for some reason ?