zoe seems to have the same sort of attude for business as Debra from the last series

Well, I liked Debra and I like Zoe, so they've that in common.

Yes I made this correlation too. They both come across as much older than they are (looks wise and confidence wise).
They both evern seem to look similar and act simlilar (hard nosed, determined, very much out for themselves in a good and bad way)

I think she's a cross between Debra and Clare.

I can't help but think of her a Baby Lady Ribena Beret

I really disliked Debra last year and then ended up respecting her in terms of her ambition and sheer will to win. (Although in a work environment, I still would dislike her strongly).

Zoe, does seem to be very much like her in the way that she's been edited so far. But are we to believe the editing?

I've just got to the stage with shows like this that they are highly manipulated and edited to get the type of results, views and ratings that they want, and Zoe seems to be at least one of the candidates that's going to be targeted as a likely love/hate figure this year.

So I'm holding out on my judgement of her until later, though going by how the editing might want me to judge her, then she's too competitive and ruthless so far. I doubt that's really the case, although those attributes are probably true, she'll end up being the darling of the show as soon as she cries or puts an arm around somebody 5 series' in to it

with the dress sense of Lucinda!

Both are butterfaces

Never really known what that means, but I've liked every girl I've seen described as that.

I have no idea what that means either.
I am sure the programme is frequently edited to show the contestants at their worst.

Everything looks good...but her face

Her philosophy: ‘You have to look good if you want to make a deal. Ugly people don’t win’.

..is the girl blind? Or never seen a picture of Sugar?

She's coming over as very competitive and not very nice, I kinda think she would be pleased with that. Hard to believe she's only 16, such toughness usually takes years to perfect.

I blame the Spice Girls and all that girl power cobblers

I remember on the proper series off shoot show "You're fired!" Michelle Moane commented on the girls all being hard, tough or a bit of a bitch and not understanding why they feel they need to be like that to be successful. If anything you want to be the opposite because nobody likes dealing with anyone that is like that. If you like the person you are more likely to want to do business with them.

I jokingly blamed the Spice Girls but there does seem to be an issue with some women's mentality when trying to be seen as strong, competant etc. In one of my previous jobs the department I worked on got an female manager. In less than a week the department had gone to hell based purely on her attitude and the way she spoke to people particularly men. Within 3 months 8 men had got transfered to other departments or quit their jobs because of her including me. I think what made it worse is she was out of her depth and knew it but just woudn't ask or allow a man to help her. She may have been good at running the jewellry department but managing the warehouse and good recieved is something else. Come 5pm there were lorries still not unloaded and stock outside in the yard waiting to come in. It was expected that we would saty behind and work unpaid. At the start we did, but when she wouldn't take guidance and let us including a the section supervisor of 7 years advise her and explain why her way isn't working we just said sod it. it's 5pm I'm going home it's your problem.

The final straw for me was getting a bollocking for leaving my position where I should be working all the time. I thought my reasoning made sense but apparently not. The person i went to help doesn't need my help, she's a woman and can cope blah blah blah. All very true, but she's also 3 months pregnant and had already had 2 miscarriages in the past and so IMO shouldnt be lifting heavy boxes, lifting doors, work tops etc. All I was doing was going over, lifting the boxes so she could open them and then price and label the contents. but that was wrong and I got a warning.

Up until she became my boss i had always got on well wih her and e were on first name terms. I could never understand why her staff boh male and female didn't like her and all the managers too. I very quickly found out why.
When I watch The Apprentice I'm always reminded of her when I see these "strong women" competing in a man's world type women. Two of the very best managers I've had have been women but there have been some who were utter nightmares. It's so unnecessary.

This Zoe so far is coming across as nasty on this show. I really hope it's the editing. But something tells me it isn't as all the contestants come across badly.

Interesting story, Cunningham. I suspect your experiance was down to her being out of her depth more than being female - plenty of males suffer from "the Peter Principle" too .
As for zoe - I suspect the program makers have decided she looks the part of the b*tch so thats how shes going to be portrayed. Its early days yet but from some of the things said last week I'd watch my back around Emma, Hibah and Rhys far more than Zoe.

So, surely, their being a nightmares was down to their personalities, rather than gender?

I'm sure there are good and bad male managers out there!

I know these kind of shows are heavily edited, believe me, but you can't make someone prattle on about how "charismatic" they are or whatever, they do that all by themselves!

That's a worry as my name is Peter LOL

Unfortunately it wasn't. As I mentioned before she became the manager we got on well and were on first name terms. The minute she became my manager that wen't out of the window and I and all the men had to call her "Ms" (not Mrs) Wilkins even putside work, where as outside work female members of the department were allowed to call her Heather.
The managers would tell us that they hated it when she sat at their table because she was a total bitch.
She never did as far as I know, but she is the type of woman that would shouts sexism, discrimination and play the race card to get what she wants.

The stupid thing is she was out of her depth and it was so easily fixable, even by using common sense.
It's 4:15pm and everyone goes home at 5pm. The goods recieved is virtually full. You have a lorry to unload and also outside on 15 pallets you have stock. Tricycles. 3 per layer stacked 5 high. To ticket/price them you run around the palet sticking the label on. It takes about10-15 seconds. They go straight through to the shop floor. You get two people with trollies to get them onto the shop floor.
That's it. Recieved in, processed, sent through to department.

Instead of doing that we were being told we had to do older stock first as we have had that longer. That consists of boxes of bras. Open the box, open the individual boxes, label them secure tag them, do up the individual boxes put them in the big box again. Or tools; open the boxes price each individual saw, hammer etc. Or boxes with carriage clocks. All slow picky time consuming things.

Logic says leave them until the morning get the fast stuff straight through. It leaves room for us to move in the department and we can get the final lorry unloaded.
Time and time again various people n the department would try and explain it to her, but she wouldn't have it. That is how you used to do it, but I'm the manager and you do it my way. Fair enough. 5pm theres stuff on the lorry and the loading bays. We dont care we clocked off out time is up.
For her predecessor we all stayed unpaid and helped him out. In the weeks leading up to Christmas when it got really bad we would go in at 6am and work 2 1.2 hours unpaid to help him or stay until 11pm. All for a "Thank you."
For her even when offered overtime it was no chance. You wanted it "your way" well now you sort out your own blood mess.

It's not to do with knowledge or being out of your depth, it's the way you treat people especially if you need them. Every time I go in a shop and eal with an asissatnt or someone on the checkout I always say hello and ask how they are. I've treated them with respect and as a human being. Now they are happy to help me if they can. They'll go to the trouble of checking the stockroom etc, offerening to order it for me. Occasionally giving me discount or a freebie. All because of the way I spoke and treated them.
People like and are attracted to nice people. People don't like nasty, ignorant or annoying people. If you know that you will be more successful in management or business.

Not so much their personalities but their abilities and capability at doing the job.

Of course there are good and bad managers of both genders. That is why I made a point of saying i have worked for great female managers. Everything that some women try to achieve by "being strong" they have achieved by just good management, leadership skills and most of all inter personal skills.

I worked under one male asisstant manager at Butlins. Every season he would leave the week before the last week of the season because he was scared of getting beaten up on the last day of the season.
He was a total knob. This one is a cracker. I got sacked from Butlins because of him. The department manager was off that day and so he got to sack me. He claimed it was because he was told that the previous evening I was walking about with a knife threatening to kill him. At the time I was 18 and still nieve so didn't know how to deal with something like that so accepted the sack and went home even though I knew it was cobblers.
Because I had made a few friends I went back for a couple of weekends as a guest and actually managed to find out which member of staff had told him that. During one of my vists I went to the office and spoke to the personnel manager. He hadn't heard anyhing about this alledged incident and was surprised by it. He said that if my former manager was ok with it he was prepared to let me have my job back until the end of the season. Sod's law it was his half day so i couldn't find him to ask him. When i got home I had got another job so too that one.
It was talking to the personnel manager that made me think about how I should have stood up for myself. As he said to me. How did i manage to wander all over a busy Butlins Holiday centre in peak time in August ranting and raving with a knife threatening to kill someone and only got seen doing it by one person? I think that combined with the history of this asisstant manager was why he was prepared to let me come back if my former manager had said he was ok with it.

So I definately can't say bloody women bosses. There are plenty of men like it as well. LOL

Which is down to her as an individual.

Claire and Debra are legends they both should of won, from what i saw of Zoe she is similar to both.

But then I don't see why saying that is wrong. Naturally they'll feel the need to big themselves up. And I think she is charismatic. Obviously she repels some people, but then so did Thatcher, Blair and Clinton, all of whom are generally considered to be charismatic.

The point is, you shouldn't have to tell people you are charismatic. They should be the judges of that!

But if you're on a television programme where the crew have just asked you to say what you think your best quality is on-camera, then you might.

Zoe moaned about Adam today but so did everyone. I don't think she's done anything really bitchy to be honest, It just looks like she's confident in her abilities and some people like Hibah who know they're not as good can't handle it, that's all.