If you're referring to the novel he wrote, that was the seventh Doctor, not the eighth.

I wonder if the writer of the episode was as pleased...

Yeah, I understand RTD asked Stephen Greehorne to change the ending, but didn't actually re-write it himself.

I think Stephen Greenhorne was one of those who had it in their contracts that they would do their own re-writes.

Regards,

Cypher

He was pleased - James Moran has said as much.

Else it would have been 'The Fires Of Pompeii'...by Robin Bland.

Regards,

Cypher

He's hardly likely to say any different, if he wants to get another job...

Except that it was known RTD was leaving at that point.

Regards,

Cypher

Sorry Seventh Doctor....I am curerntly reading the eighth Doctor novel...so my head got a liitle confused then....

Considering that he is a head writer, and James worked for him, I doubt he was expecting his script to be completely unchanged.....so I think he would be pleased...And I know your not interested in reading the writer's tale...but if you are going to make assumptions like that, you might as well read it and then back up your argument. Both bits have been included, the script before the change, and the one after it....so you can see for yourself if James would be glad of such a change or not.


And remember you don't have to buy the Writer's Tale to read it

I have absolutely no interest in reading anything more about Russell T Davies, let alone anything else he's written. Sorry, I cannot stand the man (or at least his public persona) or his writing. I was rather hoping once he left, that would be it-everyone would just move on. I am genuinely sick to death of hearing about that book. No offence.

Trouble is he hasn't completely left, as he's still doing SJA and whatever lies ahead for Torchwood. If he ever wants to be retro-cool, he'll have to disappear for a while first.

Then maybe stop contributing to threads about RTD, simple.

Well you know that is not entirely true Tony is it? After all you have praised Children of Earth, and you are a fan of Human Nature/Family of Blood where RTD had a huge part to play, and you even like Planet of the Dead.

In the end if you read the book or not, it doesn't make a difference to me, and certainly isn't offensive if you are sick of reading about it (and surely the fact that it is widely talked about, says something for it). But the only reason I mention it is that it would give your argument a better basis, for example about you thinking that James was probably not pleased with the changes made to his script. If you really are not interested and want to move on, surely you wouldn't think it was even worth giving an opinion that was nothing more than an assumption?


But you obviously hadn't really read that much about it if you still think (despite being corrected so many times) that it is about him and written by him. It just weakens your argument further.

As for moving on....considering that you are not a big fan of the idea that the Eighth Doctor and his books and audios should not be forgotton/ignored, and you are constantly speaking up for the classic series when there is an assumption made, question is, if a book on say Barry Letts was being dismissed in the same way as you are dismissing the value of the Writer's Tale, and a poster was saying there is no need to be botherd with someone of the shows's past....would you agree with that person? Or would you say to them that as a fan of the show learning about the man who and the hand he played in the success in his era is recommended to all Who fans?

Whether you are a fan of RTD or not, his time will not be forgotton, and neither will that book....as there is no more insightful/truthful book about working in the TV industry and being involved in Doctor Who as much as that one is.
Don't read it, but don't expect others not to bother with it either.

I don't think you can really state that last part as fact without having read every other book on the subject, TBH.

And how can you be so sure I haven't?

Okay fair enough, one of the most insightful, because whether there is one more or not....this one is still very insightful! And again you can't argue against it not being because you haven't read it....

Paul Cornell was urging that UK shows adopt this "writers' room" style of production a few years ago:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/tv...ouldmakeroomfo

To be fair, its hard not to be part of a thread about RTD seeing that nearly every thread makes some reference to him. Even threads about the new episodes seem to end up as 'RTD come back...' threads.

Its only natural that people will talk about him. I don't share tingramretro's views on the man but I respect that's their view.

That's true, although there are threads about RTD/DT and threads that will naturally mention them. Unfortunately tingramretro seems to be of the opinion that it is fine for people to talk about what he considers 'good Who' it seems fine to discuss things that happened over 20 30 years ago in the show, even in non canon stuff like books and audio plays yet he wishes people, many who are just nu who fans and not classic, would 'get over' the last 5 series, its actors and writers just because it doesn't fit in with his view. Was it THAT hard for him not to contribute to this thread, and the contributions he did make were straw clutching criticisms for the sake of making a critism. As if TV writers aren't aware that their work will for the most part be edited/changed in some form or another or even dropped entirely, yet because RTD as head script writer changed someone script..well you know what Im getting at.

The complaints about this series made by a few here, myself included, is nothing compared to the constant criticism that fans here have had to put up with over the last few years, then it was in almost every thread, almost every thread was hijacked by the same 5 people unable to let fans of the show discuss it, and those critisms hardly ever added to the discussions they were for the most part just childish eye rolling smilie one liners for the sake of posting in a thread where others enjoyed something they did not. Adults acting like children in other words.

On a side note doesn't it seem strange that nearly all of those members that constantly criticised every last detail of the last 4 series have all suddenly disappeared? well when I say disappeared I mean created new forum names in order to post about this new series and SM without looking like hypocrites after finding many of the elements they have classed as soap opera and dumbed down are still in fact appearing in this new series, many of the plot expositions and quick tie up endings are no different than the ones they said were lazy writing under RTD and other writers, of course now it is intelligent writing where the viewer has to fill in the gaps.

Thank you for posting this - I missed it when it first appeared.

There is a very good reason we will never have a 'writers room' system in the UK: money.

If you look at how US dramas are run, although individual episodes of a series are credited to one writer, there is also a showrunner but also several credited 'producers' who also write, plus staff writers and story editors who all do the same. This system therefore requires on a large editorial pool contracted to each series. That's a significant part of the budget. Of course, as US TV proves over and over again, whn you get that system right, it's unbeatable - but, when budgets are ever more under threat (and DW has already wracked up a £100,000+ overspend this year), it's not really something British drama producers are liable to go for. Short-sighted of them, in my opinion, but then British television as a whole operates in a very short-sighted way.

BTW, for anyone interested in how a writers' room operates, there is a brilliant documentary extra on The Shield Series 3 DVD (I think it's Series 3 ... ).

Your opinion only. Please stop stating this last as fact.
Nope. Legitimate criticism.
Perhaps you just aren't seeing the differtences. Believe me, they are there.

Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much stuff is stated as fact that is personal opinion.

On ALL sides.

So please tell me where I am factually wrong, you on a few occasions now have told people move on when they refer to the RTD era, yet if the discussion is about classic who or an audio book from over 10/20/30 years agao I don't see you telling anyone to move on.

Again please can you point out where any of that is my opinion and not fact based on your posting in this forum.


Really so what is legitimate criticism have you made in this thread?

This


All you have done there is taken something both RTD and SM do in thier roles as show runners and head writers and used it to bash RTD with and surprisingly not SM


Oh dear, well the sheer desperateness of that comment speaks for itself.


So again can you point me to where you have made legitimate criticisms within this thread. Do you mean this childish rant


Because it is clear that your little rant there was brought on only because others were saying that RTD had improved other writers scripts during his time as showrunner, so it was a bit too much for you wasn't it? seeing a thread where other forum members were discussing something or someone you didnt like.

In what way is making assumptions about what James thought about RTD changing his script is a legitimate criticism? If you had (and this is why I recommended the book) had seen both versions of the script, had spoken to James himself, only then could it be legitimate criticism.....otherwise it just sounds like an excuse to have a dig at RTD.


And surely your last sentence is nothing more than opinion I assume?

That probably explains why we've had a disappointing series so far, its been certainly the weakest.

Or, for many people, the strongest series so far.

Corrected for accuracy...

Are people ever going to give this childish playground "my Exec Producer is better than your Exec Producer" style of thread a rest?

Clearly not. Are you going to stop gatecrashing other peoples perfectly legitimate threads and lambasting them because it doesnt please you?