So has Charlie Slater!

I think there definitely needs to be a serious reversal of the neutron flow because Dirty Den came back as ghost and Peggy Mitchell was in Doctor Who but Bradley was a fan of Doctor Who in EastEnders. Sounds like we need restrict the Blinovitch Time Effect....

Do you think the Fendhal was really Charlie's beloved Val?

No, it was Mrs Tyler.

That was incredibly embarassing wasn't it? I agree that this series has done well in getting away from all that. Just hope it continues.

I'd be interested to know how many posters are missing farting aliens and cuddly blobs of fat.

Who knows though, the Pandorica might release cuddly farting blobs of fat in human skin suits!

I joined the forum during the last couple of remaining episodes of series 4...and yes the criticism that recieved was quite nasty at times...people going as far as picking on RTD's sexuality to make a criticism....on those counts, the criticism has definitely been mellow. The worst you get is someone asking for the old team back...or one or two people having a go at the way Matt looks, but overall the criticism hasn't been nasty.



But the main difference between Eastenders and Doctor is that...in Doctor change has always been part of it...but not for Eastenders....so if their was a reboot all of a sudden for that, it would seem weird....but for Doctor Who it isn't...maybe for new fans....but then it probably was for the fans the first time the main lead changed all the way back in 60's. So you can't compare a show which isn't based on change in big ways to a show which is based on change, and fans allways having to get used to a change. Hopefully soon it will feel like a norm the next time it happens again...because I am sure it will.


LOL


Getting a sense of De ja vu here!!!


I'd highly disagree with the idea that this series is more adult than the first five years...just as I would disagree that it is nothing but fluff. In the new series the farting aliens and baby fat, has been replaced by a Doctor that spits food out, a space whale which pukes you out, a street wise queen, Rainbow Daleks, companions that throw themselves onto the Doctor, comedy fight scenes between Rory and a fish/vampire, and zombie spitting grannies....
All it is really is a matter of taste....some have a problem with farting aliens, and some with a spitting Doctor.


In the end, Doctor Who has always had something which would seem quite childish....depending on your view.

I once said on another thread that this series's aim to be very fairytale like is about catching the imaginations of kids....not adults....but the kid in the adult. What RTD did to get kids watching was make them laugh, what Moff does is make them scared...niether are wrong, just different. So really it isn't any more adult....although with RTD, you really did have adult fears being brought into the show behind all those things that seemed childish, this series, its attracting all the things that we as kids would be scared of....only Amy's choice so far hasn't been such like.



I know


You keep telling yourself that!!!

I'm liking this word reboot. lol.

I suppose EastEnders has change in a different way in that it has new characters coming in and going out(and back in) all the time. The storylines change but the style of the show is essentially the same.

In Doctor Who's case, once change has been made, there's no going back. Therefore you can't really compare the two. Every show goes through change from Buffy to Angel to The Incredible Hulk. Those changes may be better, they may be worse but they're all for the good of the show.

The changes in this series have been good but as I ahve said previously, I don't think the scripts have been there to match the new look in certain episodes.

That's a really good analysis. I don't personally feel the things you list from this series are 'childish' as such, but they are definitely (with the exception of the colourful Daleks) lighter moments. I surprisingly find the bright colours give the Daleks more menace because the vanity of their look sort of clashes with their evil intent.

I've never minded the sillier side to Doctor Who, as you say it has always been there. If the silliness has a purpose to the story then I just go with it. Even the Slitheen's farting had a purpose in the story as did the Star Whale throwing up.

I guess it depends on whether the overall story is working for me. I actually don't mind Aliens of London and World War 3, whereas I just didn't like Partners in Crime. As I didn't like The End of Time, so the silliness of 'Minnie the Menace' and the Silver Cloak will always grate somewhat with me.

At the end of the day Doctor Who is just pretty silly. I love Human Nature and Family of Blood, but animated scarecrows flopping around the place are silly. But they worked brilliantly.

I've been absolutly fine with the changes too, in fact it was very exciting to have so much change, I wanted Moff to put his own stamp on the show, and I say this as someone who loved the last five years....its the scripts that have been on the down side...like I said, usually its one script that doesn't work for me per series...but having three before half way into the series was little disappointing....but the fact now there have been four that I have loved...the poisitives definitely outway the negatives...so alls good so far..and I definitely loving the cast and characters.


And I think that is what it boils down to...what works for you and what doesn't. I know I wrote that list out for series 5, and it may seem like I am criticising those moments. But fact is I love them. However I can see that some may find them childish...an you do get the odd comment from some who says that it is, for example the new Daleks have been dismissed as being lightweight looking now by a couple of people, not just on DS. Same goes for the last five years. I can see why farting slitheen could be seen as childish, but I love the logic behind it, especially which then is the reason the Doctor and Co are able to work out due to the smell what is their weakness. But over all I think the concept of the Slitheen is dark, they afterall do skin you alive and then wear that skin...so it feels that RTD went as dark as he could but not so much that he would get a telling off from...
Same goes for the Adipose...on the surface they are quite light, but we literally see someone being killed due to them falling for the obsession of dieting...and a new life being born out of someones death.
What makes us laugh or cry or whatever is subjective, so not everyone is going to like the things like Adipose, and just find them silly, although my freind finds them creepy and sick...so as a good friend I sent her an Adipose doll

There's always a risk when you change the lead that people won't feel the same about a show.

In S5's case, it's not just the Doctor, but *everything* has changed; that's a pretty big pill for some viewers to swallow. It feels almost like a new show now, and while I'm not enjoying it, I do think it has room for improvement.

The stories aren't strong enough for me, neither is Smith's Doctor (or Gillan). If those things were a little bit stronger, I think the show would be OK, but right now, I've found almost all the episodes to be examples of lazy writing. And the show is too big for Smith, who, I feel, is in a role way too big for him.

He hasn't got that depth of character another 10 years would give to his character...

One of the reasons I was really looking forward to Smith taking over was because I did feel that they would definitely be going for thet old man in a young person's body. Because most people were dismissing his announcement as being a reason to cater for the whole Hollyoaks audience, I knew that this would not be the case at all....the fact that most young peopel are now easily dismissed by thier age and "lack" of experience...without taking into the fact that this doesn't mean they are not up to the job (having had this experince myself)....so I really did think that they would definitely try to enfisise this Old man young Body thing...


And i have to say that they have acheieved this very much so. So I have to disagree with you there.

Forget Daleks, and the dark nature of the Slitheen, that is absolute pure evil.

I actually don't dislike the Slitheen as others do simply because their silliness masks some really nasty character traits. And at the end of the day they are doing it for profit.

I do think he has captured a certain otherworldly quality that Tennant didn't have.

I think that's subjective as well though. One of my favourite thing about Tennant's Doctor was how 'alien' he could be (to me, I mean). How he could act so crazy and happy and talk nineteen to the dozen but then switch and I would truly feel he was ancient and alien and unknowable.

I think Matt Smith's a brilliant Doctor by the way, although I am one of the people who has found the series a bit lacking, though I blame the directing I think, the way the episodes are structured and presented seems to suck the urgency out of it for me. Am liking tonight's episode though, the first one I've watched since the Angels

Having watched tonight's episode the feeling of something missing is still there. I begin to wonder if that feeling of watching a cracking good episode will ever return this series. Tonight's episode was okay, but that's all it was. Okay.

I agree with everything you've said here. I loved Ten and Eccleston, and I think Smith pales in comparison. They were great actors, Smith is just finding his feet.

There's nothing to fix..

If you haven't watched it for three weeks and you're liking this one, how do you know whether the last couple were 'lacking' or not?

If I had done it today I wouldn't have made it to the bathroom let alone to the end of the episode But I liked it, it even gave me a scare at one moment, that has not happened in ages.

You know what? At this point I really wouldn't mind if Doctor Who had an exodus of viewers, I'm getting seriously tired of all the moaning and bitching about the new series...

Some people are just incapable of recognising good television when they see it.

You need to realise that others will not like what you like. I remember when DT took the role and the fanboys jumped on the 'we refuse to watch this gurning clown' are people who are not liking MS or SM not allowed to make their voices heard in the same way????

What you think is good does not make it good for everyone.

Likewise. You watch a decent episode, go online to share your feelings about why it was good, and are greeted by pages of people who seem not to be capable of appreciating it moaning that it is in some indefinable way 'crap'. It's getting depressing.

If it is getting depressing for you, then perhaps it would be wise to stay out of threads such as this one and stay in the 'we love' threads?

We had to put up with the anti DT rants, it is a public forum and others will have other points of view to yours.

I am confused as to why a few are not able to 'get' that?

I'm not sure what it is but it is missing something. Why me and my brother think it's fine so far my parents have lost total interest, my Dad fell alseep during the first 5 episodes and now neither watch at all.

Spare a thought for people who feel the exact opposite.

You watch a poor episode, go online to share your feelings about why it was so bad, and are greeted by pages of people who seem not to be capable of disliking it saying that it is in some indefinable way 'good'. It's getting depressing.

Having said that, I still find it hard to determine exactly what it is that I find so lacking in the current series. Maybe that is why I am not a successful scriptwriter! All I can say is that I find it impossible to actually care what happens to any of the characters. Is that down to the script or the actors, I'm not sure. I take no pleasure in expressing my disenchantment with the show, but I am genuinely astonished that more people don't feel the same.