I just heard Kylie's new single on the radio and it got me to thinking how these two have reached iconic status by being entirely average...I'm average at everything and have nothing more in my pockets than some loose change and dairy milk wrappers. *Sulks*
...in saying that, the song was quite catchy.

I do understand what you mean but on Madonna's behalf, I believe (so i've read and heard) that for the 80s she was more of a ground breaker and introduced a completely different scene to music, so I guess maybe she deserves her spot in the charts even more so.

I love Kylie's new single and yes, Kylie and Madonna arn't the best singers in the world but they are pretty good live and have churned out some amazing hits.

I think someone needs NEEDS a valid lesson in the history of quality music to understand what Madonna did! she's phenomenal.

and Kylie is much better than a lot of today's standard.
and stop using opinion as fact when it's not!

i mean if Madge is classified as mediocre, then surely Michael Jackson and Elvis must also be classified this too, which is shocking to even think.
plus you need to hear her albums too if you think she is mediocre, DONT JUDGE!!

Madonna will always be at the top of the game until the day she dies - she doesnt need to prove anything anymore. When youve done everything there is to do, the only other thing you can do is experiment. Granted, her last album was a bit crap but every other album before was different with every release and thats why I love her. Shes the only true shape shifter of the pop world and she deserves credit for that. She also shaped pop music as we know it.

Kylie - shes a bit of fluff. Hardly an icon but wonderful all the same. I dont think she should be taken seriously...hell, I dont think she even takes herself seriously.

hi 5!! agree with every word entirely and M's live shows are amazing sets!! people need her in their life i think she's a legend, and the most successful female in the industry because she has just shown so much versitality and honesty in her work, she's an iconic person and a legend and proves you dont need a belter ear bleeding voice to sing a great tune! and i like Hard Candy (bar a few songs like Spanish Lesson and Voices!) but she will do better next time as she has so much to talk about! and sing. plus she has one of the largest fanbases ever!! she's an idol!! she's MADONNA!

I'm not using opinion as fact...I'm using opinion as opinion. Isn't that what a forum is for? Stating an opinion? Sorry it's caused such offense. You think she's phenomenal, I don't. What's the problem? Am I not allowed to dislike her music and voice? As far as quality music is concerned, that is entirely subjective.

well i find creating such a forum is a bit...well vague in comparison! and having an entire topic on it is just a bit strange, i mean sure eveyone has their opinions but statements like that are a bit confusing to me really. i mean i dislike a few things but dont create topics of them really, i prespect them as people.
at the end of the day, Nobody's Perfect!

Let's hope this thread doesn't turn into YET ANOTHER Madonna VS Kylie.

Madonna, in my opinion, is a pop culture icon.

Kylie has produced some brilliant albums and I don't see why they're always pitted against each other?

Hehe, at least we can agree on that

haha here,here!!

I love kylies live in new york album

'like a drug' is a personal fave

madge, jacko, elvis, ... yep id call them all mediocre in their later years. all three were good for a time, all three contributed to the development of pop music, but when they hit a certain age they went very poor... theres nothing 'shocking' at all.. id suggest that many 'greats' went mediocre sometime in their mid 30's early 40's.... john lennon, stevie wonder, eric clapton, for eg.

nah! i liked them all in their early years and later on in life!! Madge and John Lennon in particular really! i mean they grew with the times and feel like they represent themselves in modern culture and became quite literally pop culture!!
especially when Madonna is great still now!!

we will have to agree to differ then on this, cos i dont think madge has done anything of any calibre (and she was good) since 'ray of light'. imho her material over the last ten odd years has been poor, almost embarrassing, and not a patch on her earier material. i mean.. 'sorry' is an ok pop song, but is bland compared to 'vogue' or 'open your heart'.

Music and American life are standout albums - Confessions is great but forgettable IMO. The title track from Music is probably one of the most instantly catchy and memorable tracks from the 00's. I remember as a young un hearing it for the first time and wondering what the hell it was because that sound was so fresh and new on the radio. American Life is easy to hate because she went a bit OTT trying to make it political but it features some of her best work and her first attempt at playing guitar on her own albums.

I think the rpoblem is that when an artist has a catalogue of classic albums, that sort of quality is expected from them the rest of their career. I think this is the pitfall of extreme fame...a big hit and people wait for a repeat for the rest of time. Look at David Bowie - an undisputed genius but his more recent outputs from the last 10-20 years have been mediocre at best with a few songs being an exception.

how is Confessions so forgettable?? it is an EPIC album and my favourite pop album of the past decade with sales to prove it!!! and her tour is sensational!! to say she's lost it now doesnt make any sense?!?! plus she's still going mega-strong i mean she is breaking records the whole time now! Confessions On A Dance Floor has inspired artists to have similar sounds on their albums, her video's for Hung Up and Sorry are fabulous! and Get Together is a major dance anthem as is Jump! hence why they were ALL mega hits here in the UK! Hung Up was the modern day Vogue! Sorry is the modern day Into The groove, Get Together is the modern Express Yourself (in terms of empowerment and joy and EPIC rhythms) and Jump is a modern Borderline! plus all 12 songs are so elegand and big anthemic tunes with surprisingly deep melodies, HARDLY forgettable i mean i play it a lot of the time and many fans have given it acclaim. i just wish it was acknowledged more at the Grammy's! it won her two Brits though and her live performances for the COAD album...sensational!! love it a proper perfect 10/10 record as great as ROL,LAP and Erotica!
Hard Candy had some great beats, and it was meant to be really fun record and Devil Wouldn't Recognize you is definately as close to Frozen or Rain as it can! and should have been a single!!
American Life got so much criticism due to the political approach she had at the time, also the singles weren't nearly promoted enough but i do love Hollywood, her acoustic melodies are fantastic on it but i prefer it slightly to Music, and Music is also an EPIC pop record!!

so yeah the past ten years she's been at the top of her game!! but i love all her albums!! but i dont think i am totally bias, i think some people don't give records a chance really half the time, not just for Madonna but any act!! but she's still great in style and strength at 52 and she's going to continue for sure at finding a new direction for her next album.

Its not just about the singing - theres the history (Madonna's contreversy and kylie from neighbours era)
the image, the different eras they have come through

madonna: contreversal pop > spiitual > sexy dance
kylie: bubblegum pop > alternative > disco > pop

like i said, we will have to agree to disagree on madge, i dont rate anything since 'ray of light' and to my knowlege shes not had much if any critical acclaim since then either. imho her material from the last decade is vastly inferior and i dont think its 'sexy' or even dignified to see a woman of my age acting like a teenager. i can see the argument for 'why not', but a mature woman should imho act with more poise and dignity. other women of her age dont... annie lennox, alison moyet, kate bush, all greats but dont need to cavort like a teen to sell music.

i think you're confuzed with Mariah Carey there LOL!! but yeah we will have to disagree i'm afraid, and YES she has had a LOT of acclaim for her albums, Music and Confessions got Universal Acclaim on Metacritic and she has had plenty of acclaim from critics and fans alike.
so your opinion i respect BUT DON'T PUSH IT!! i mean Music,American Life,Confessions each brilliant albums and in Music and Confessions case MEGA sale albums too. and i do find her fantastically looking and as sexy as she was back in the 80's she has a timeless beauty age is just a number she can do anything and (literally) pull it off with dignity!! Kate Bush i am a fan of but she's retired almost entirely from music, and Annie is another female artist i love but she hasn't been at the top since the 90's i'm afraid... still love the pair though.
BUT Alison Moyet...will the world be ready for her in a leotard?!?!?! that's a rediculous example but madonna at 46 looked amazing in it!! hence the jealousy, plus that video was one of many the past decade that garnered acclaim.

But that's the end of discussion, i love Madonna now like i always have done in her three decades and that aint gonna change for her fourth one or fifth!! she has what no other artist has! and she's an absoloute legend, why people redicule her i will never know, but life has gone on since Ray Of Light! and i even find Like A Virgin,True Blue,Like A Prayer,Erotica,Confessions and American Life are stronger albums as a whole, but i do love Music,Bedtime Story,Hard Candy,Madonna and Ray of Light indeed!!!
just be open minded, she has class and strength and is a real female rocker!!if youwant Diva go for Whitney! lol.

Don't rate either of them.
Madge has made a career off of talented producer's backs.
Likewise Kylie but she has the disadvantage of having a truely awful singing voice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHrnyU-5dJI

the reason why she is amazing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAjPy...eature=related

she brings that power to her performances, be it smaller audiences or massive ones! she entertains,engages and just brings so much to the stage that many cannot!
it's all raw, it's all personal and it's ALL Madonna!

sure everyone has their opinions and criticise, many who i love get criticised. but to me that just makes them perfect. Madonna,The Stones,Elvis,Grace Jones etc. have all faced levels of opposition. but Madonna fights back and whatever age she is she looks fantastic and is absolutely of the old skool!!
she just rocks it out there, and she doesn't take it all seriously! she's fantastic in so many ways and long may she continue she's a powerhouse!!

Kylie has presence and she has the abilility to continuously re invent herself successfully,every Kylie album is diffeerent and all have completly different sounds,some worked better than others, i think Kylie is hugely under rated as a live performer.

Im not a big madonna fan myself but she has definitly sustained a great career and again no's exactly what to do tp keep her audiences engaged.

No, dude - seriously. Think about the cover of Hard Candy.

i cant abide mariah, whitney or any other 'diva', in fact the very word 'diva' is just a polite way of calling them a 'bumhole'.

... and you suggest i be 'open minded' !!!! your mind is already made up!

why shouldnt alison moyet wear a leotard? not that she would need to stoop so low... sorry i stand behind the points i made. imho shes now mediocre and behaves undignified for a middle aged woman.

Nobody can deny what Madonna has achieved through her career. She released a pretty poor album (by her standards!) and still managed to have the highest grossing solo world tour ever! I don't believe there is anybody who hasn't heard of her or knows at least one of her songs! Definately the Queen of Pop.

Kylie hasn't achieved quite so much, but she must be doing something right. I'm a huge fan (LOVE her new single ) so i'm slightly biased, but to last in the business for over 20 years is pretty astonishing. She always seems pretty down to earth as well. Seeing her in interviews she always comes across funny, likeable and friendly. I think that helps. Plus you hardly ever see her falling out of bars drunk with her ladybits hanging out like many other 'celebs' i could mention