I have already mentioned the family Devil Dog on these threads before, but I am wondering if anyone has any advice to help calm the beast down.

My parents are getting sick of him now he is nothing but a naughty dog.

Let me start by explaining what he is and what he does - Well he is a Border Collie and he is 6 months old. The latest of his naughtiness is that he has just destroyed their kitchen he has chewed all the wood of all the units. Now the kitchen was expensive in the first place to now replace all the Oak doors it is really annoying.

When he is not getting is own way he will attempt to bite you.

He will tip his water bowl over and throw it around the floor.

He can not be let off the lead as he gets distracted and doesn't come back - it is not because he doesn't know to
come back because he does it fine at home.

There is loads more things he does that is frustrating my parents to the point that they are on the edge of giving him away.

I need advice on how to get him to be less naughty. Unfortunately we have tried positive re-enforcement and when you are suppose to ignore him when he is being bad is just useless because he doesn't care he is being ignored and continues doing what he is doing.

Any other advice would be appreciated. I really don't want them to get rid of him as I just think that is wrong... but I don't have a say.

Border Collies are a highly energetic and a highly intelligent breed. He's most likely extremely bored - they need constant stimulation for a good couple of years - and, worst luck, he's at the teething stage so he will chew everything and anything.
There's a lot of Border Collie behaviour links and lessons, via Google - it might be worth going through those, there's also clubs and forums dedicated to this breed where you could get invaluable advice from people who have experienced the same things.

Basically as above border collies are high energy dogs and extremely intelligent and need a lot of physical and mental stimulation and if this is not provided then there will be problems.

Border collies also have the inherant herding instinct so are terrible for nipping, if not taucht bite inhibition at an early age this could end up with bad biting.

Lots of training and games at this age to exhaust mentally and as it grows a lot of offlead exercise at least two hours and some walks too

As the others have said mental and physical exercise is the answer, that and training, he sounds like a good dog just bored and looking for stimulation. Mollie has half collie in her and we found the nipping hard to stop but it can be done with training and persistence. She ate through walls at 6 months old so I know how it feels to be failing a dog, as soon as we took her need for mental exercise more seriously she became changed almost over night.

In the first place, I doubt very much that your parent's dog is being deliberately naughty ~ that is far too anthropomorphic. It's much more likely that he hasn't received the appropriate training & is not getting enough or the right sort of physical & mental stimulation. Plus at 6 months old he is going through adolescence which is a notorious age for problem behaviours to start. Plus BCs are high maintenance dogs that need a lot of stimulation of the right sort.

I don't know if your parents are experienced dog owners but I would strongly advise that they get some help from a qualified dog trainer or behaviourist ~ perhaps enlist in training classes if they haven't already done so.

But training alone doesn't solve all problems ~ dog owners have to be aware of a dog's needs & provide the basic things that ensure a dog can satisfy these needs, i.e. food, water, physical exercise, mental stimutation, plenty of social interactions with other dogs, safe sleeping places & no social isolation unless the dog can cope. I suspect that the reason for the "kitchen massacre" was because the dog was shut in there alone!

When you say that you've tried positive reinforcement but it didn't work sounds very much like you & your parents don't really understand about operant learning/conditioning. There's a hell of a lot more to it than "rewarding" good behaviour & ignoring bad behaviour. Perhaps a good trainer/behaviourist would be able to explain this to you.

I hope that you & your parents can get some help with this young dog sooner rather than later as it would be a shame for him to be given away & this would certainly not help the dog in the long term unless he went to experienced BC people who would know how to cope.

You shouldn't ignore bad behaviour. You need to respond to it. You must establish yourself as the leader of the pack and the dog as subservient. Sounds harsh, but this is the way animal trainers work. Have you seen the Dog Whisperer guy? His advice is very sound. Look him up on YouTube. I have tried his technique with the family dog and she becomes alot calmer in my presence and will prostrate herself in front of me to show submission. Don't be afraid of being dominant, this is good for the dog and helps them establish a relationship with you.

Oh not again!!! Please don't go down this route. Cesar Millan aka The Dog Whisperer, has been so discredited now ~ nearly all of the professional bodies both in the UK, Europe & USA, that represents vets, behaviourists, trainers, animal charities & welfare organisations, have issued statements totally discrediting Cesar Millan's methods, so please don't go down that route. You'll only end up with a dog with worse behavioural problems, or a very unhappy dog.

You would be much better off consulting a trainer accredited by the APDT or a qualified behaviourist, possibly recommended by your vet.

Sounds like the dog has needs that are not being met.

Collies are a super-intelligent breed on the whole and need plenty of physical exercise and mental stimulation - some even more than what you'd usually expect to be the norm.

I suggest you explore ways to satisfy the dog's needs or give it to someone who can.

Some of his methods worked for me! And the dog is quite happy and loving. She comes to me for cuddles as soon as I get in the door. Excuse me for breathing. You could have said that in an informative manner rather than being so superior. Just a hint for the future.

Tut. Missing post again. Sorry if I sounded harsh in an earlier post but I am new to dogs and everyone has an opinion and think they know best.

Perhaps I should have posted links to the other threads that have discussed this subject ad infinitum. Sorry if I came over as having a go at you ~ it was not meant to be personal.

No that's OK, I realised that after I posted. It's just I love that bloody daft dog and I do try to control her - she belongs to my sister but she hasn't a clue how to train her and doesn't try really. So when I'm there I do my best, but when I'm not there all my work is undone.

I raised my gorgeous girl using Jan Fennell's methods. The results have been fantastic and we are both often complemented on her nature and behaviour.

Jan's methods (or at least the underlying principles) are not too far removed from Cesar's.

I suspect that :
"nearly all of the professional bodies both in the UK, Europe & USA, that represents vets, behaviourists, trainers, animal charities & welfare organisations, have issued statements totally discrediting Cesar Millan's methods" is down to them all losing business due to the "old" methods being discredited.

"You'll only end up with a dog with worse behavioural problems, or a very unhappy dog." ......Is a little strong.

Perhaps, if you don't know what you are doing you may....?

Are you having a bad day?

I and my Father before me were using methods very similar to Cesar Millan's long before he was ever heard of.

A lot of it is just common sense.

I think a lot of the criticism Millan has recieved is for the way he sometimes adopts a heavy-handed approach in dealing with aggressive or extremely over-excitable dogs. I'm afraid that quite often, without resorting to those methods you may very well end up having to have the animal destroyed.

I'm not expert but Jan Fennels methods and Milans are very far apart ! Jan would not I am sure be doing many of the things Milan advocates.

BTW wilhemina is one of the most helpful posters here when it comes to dogs, highly thought of by many of us she has helped.

sod the 'experts'.... If you're going to buy a 'breed', you need to read up all about them, speak to others that own them etc.

OP - Your parents have one of the most intelligent working dogs in this country, and it's behaviour displays nothing but ultimate boredom.

There's no such thing as a 'bad dog' - just a bad (or at the very least inappropriate) owner. How often is the dog walked? How long is it left alone for during the day?

From your original post, it sounds that the best thing for your parents and the dog is for it to be given back to the breeder (or wherever they bought it from), so the dog can find an appropriate owner, and your parents should spend more time researching what is the right kind of dog for them.

Thanks molliepops & sorry if I offended anyone earlier.

I don't mean to be critical of individuals that have relied on methods used by TV personalities to train their dogs. But it does pay to do a bit of research yourselves first as often the highly edited TV programmes are very misleading & simplified. And sometimes people cherry pick the bits they like & understand, & ignore other bits. The end result is often very confused owners & dogs!

And I'm talking from experience having done exactly the same myself in the past. But I felt very uncomfortable with some of the methods they used & started to question what I was doing. Having spoken to people far more knowledgeable than me, I decided to study canine behaviour & this lead to lots of other things (not least a whole new circle of friends & 2 lovely dogs).

I'm more than happy to help where I can (as are many other people on this forum) but with more serious problems I think it's better to get proper advice from someone qualified to help & who can see the dog first hand, rather than relying on advice from forums like these. Many people here are only too happy to point owners in the right direction for help.

I know. That's why I asked if she was having a bad day.

Thank you for all your responses I understand what you are saying an appreciate it. In regards to mental stimulation - what would you suggest?

Physically we walk him around 5 - 6 hours a day this is separated out in the day - 2 hours in the morning before Parents go to work, another 2 hours at around 4 pm after this he gets to run around the garden (I tend to hide his toys in a hope this is fun for him) and then at 8 he gets another hour or 2 this is less of a walk and more or a game of catch on the fields near us.

In the day he does get the kitchen and utility room but unfortunately due to my parents and I working then he is alone. My Mum comes home at dinner time for an hour.

Also I really would like some advice on his feeding habits he tends not to eat his food - we have tried a routine of giving him food at certain times but he didn't eat at these times - my parents worrying that he didn't get enough food then began leaving, the food for him. He still doesn't eat it often (I have sat with him and he seems to eat but I am not his owner and so I am not always around - my parents don't take kindly to me handing out advice) is there any suggestions to help with this.

Again I would really like to point out that I do not like the idea of giving him up he is apart of the family and I don't believe they should be abandoned.

Also I must also let you know that he has been to Puppy Training as well as a Personal one to one training with a guy who trains police dogs.

So thank you for all the advice that has been given so far and I only ask for examples of Mental stimulation and also advice on the food situation.

Also I know people don't believe in Bad Dogs and it is all our fault that he is behaving this way so I apologise for the title all I meant was that he is extremely naughty at the moment and I wanted advice to help curb his behaviour.

It sounds like your parent's puppy is getting plenty of company & exercise. Would you say that he is left alone for more than 3 to 4 hours at a time when your parents are at work?

The kitchen destruction is probably down to stress & anxiety at being on his own ~ separation anxiety. The usual way to deal with this is to gradually build up the time a dog is left on his own & perhaps your parents have already done this? But it would do no harm to go back to basics & try leaving him for just short periods, e.g. 10 to 15 mins, then 30 mins etc. When your parents return, greet him normally (don't just ignore him as this goes against what is perfectly normal greeting behaviour) but try not to get him too hyped up & excited. Just sit quietly, have a cuppa & then go about their normal routine. With the Bank Holiday weekend coming up perhaps this would give them a few days to work on this?

Another possibility to prevent destruction would be to provide a crate for him in the kitchen. Some dogs take to staying in a crate really well as it gives them some comfort & security. But the crate has to be seen as a "nice" place to be & not a punishment, so it would need to be introduced very carefully & positive associations made with the crate. e.g. lots of treats/chews/toys etc in the crate as well as fuss & attention for being in there.

As far as the feeding goes, what do your parents feed him now? If it is just dry kibble/complete food, then maybe a change of diet would be in order. I think some BCs are not particularly food motivated so this could be why he's only picking at the dry food. You could try moistening the food with some meat stock, or mixing something tasty with it, like some raw minced meat.

Many people now feed their dogs on a "BARF" (bones & raw food) or prey model diet as it's supposed to resemble more closely what dogs have evolved to eat. If your parents are interested in going down this route there's plenty of information out there ~ just google BARF. But even if they don't want to change completely, there's certainly nothing wrong with giving their dog raw bones now & again. It doesn't have to be the large beef bones ~ chicken wings or necks, lamb bones, pork bones, oxtail etc ~ as long as it's raw. Personally I would not leave a dog alone with a bone, but as long as someone is around to keep an eye on the dog, then bones can provide a very satisfying half hour of chewing. Plus they are very good for dental care.

With the behaviour you've decribed with your parent's dog & with high maintenance dogs like BCs, plus the amount of physical exercise he gets, I would be inclined to concentrate more on mentally stimulating activities, but ones that require less physical arousal, i.e. not mad dashing around games but quiet thinking games. We used to call these "AFFF" activities ~ "All Four Feet Flat"! These sort of exercises & games can, over time, teach a dog more problem-solving skills & to use their brain. But the main point of them is not to activate all the adrenalin & other neurochemical responses associated with physical activity. Once a dog is hyped up & physically aroused, then it can take quite some time for the feelings to dissipate. So leaving the dog immediately after physical activity when it is still aroused isn't always a good idea. It may be better to spend more time on quiet but mentally stimulating games before leaving him alone.

You could try some of the following:

"[LIST][*]High Fives"[*]Touch an object with a paw or his nose & then try naming different objects to touch.[*]Find a treat hidden under one of several cups.[*]Roll over or "play dead"[*]Down stays[*]Practice keeping the dog in a calm relaxed position whilst you or your parents move around, but start very sllowly by just asking him to sit or down, then literally move one step back & return, then treat/praise etc for the dog staying where he is. Gradually build this up so that you can walk away, turn round & walk back. Then build up to leaving the room, & immediately return. The count to 5 & return, etc etc. Always return to the dog, never call the dog to you.[/LIST]
I also suspect that a lot of the "misbehaviour" is a lot to do with the dog's age so with a bit of time & patience, any problems could well fade away of their own accord ~ so don't give up yet.

This is probably very true. My collie's almost 3 now, but I still remember what a devil he was at 6 months! I feel guilty admtting to it now because I love him to bits, but there were times back then when I really didn't like him very much and wondered what the hell I'd been thinking of, getting another puppy. The destructive behaviour is very likely to be somthing he'll outgrow. Barney ate his way through a carpet, table legs, the phone cable! and various other things as a pup, but he's not at all destructive now as an adult, apart from teddy bears of course.

I'm pretty much just going along agreeing with Wilhemina but I agree that collies often aren't very food motivated. Barney tends to pick at his food throughout the day and he can sometimes go a day without eating much at all. My last collie was exactly the same. I spoke to the vet about it when Barney went for his first annual booster and he said that as long as his weight is healthy and he has plenty of energy, then he's probably getting enough. We mix some tripe or raw lamb mince in with his dry food which encourages him a bit.

Physical exercise is important, but collie's minds never seem to switch off and they get bored so easily which is when the bad behaviour comes out, so, (agreeing with Wilhemina again) it's vital you give them mental stimulation too. The tips you've been given about that already are great and I can't really add to them. You could look in the 'border collie mind games' thread for some ideas too, but beware of anything that's likely to get him too over-excited at this stage.

We do agility with Barney too which he loves! Your dog's still a little young for that at the moment (I think Barney had to be 12 months before our local training club accepted him) but it's something to consider for the future. I found it really helped me to bond with him and we both thoroughly enjoy it.

I agree, our dog's trainer has been using similar tactics that CM uses, for 30 years, and he is very successful in training wayward dogs.
Getting back to the OP, I think that lack of stimulation may be what is missing.
Excercise, Excersice, Excersice
Discipline, discipline
Affection.
That is our mantra and it works 99% of the time with our naughty doggy.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with the "exercise, exercise, exercise" bit for the reasons stated in my earlier posts. The idea of physical exercise is to ensure that the young dog's body develops correctly & that it gets the RIGHT amount of APPROPRIATE exercise for its age, breed & physical strength. Running a dog on a treadmill until it is physically exhausted is not good for any dog, let alone a 6 month old puppy!!

This is one of the reasons why I don't like CM's methods. It's not "one size fits all" in canine behaviour. Training & behavioural work should be developed for each individual dogs' needs.

Also the physical arousal associated with physical exercise is not conducive to training a dog in new behaviours. We all know how we feel when highly excited after a great game of competitive football or whatever ~ we chatter, we're hyped up, & it can take a while to calm down & start to think rationally again. Imagine how a dog feels when it is hyped up & excited adfter a great game chasing rabbits, then we expect it to immediately become calm, relaxed & go to sleep in social isolation. It doesn't work like that! And then to expect an adolescent male dog of the hyperactive type to do that it just totally unrealistic.

From what the OP has described in terms of exercise & company, it sounds like the young dog is getting plenty of exercise & company. So in this scenario it would be better to concentrate on mental stimulation for this dog, not yet more exercise & physical stimulation.

Err well the AHA has invited him to be involved in Humane Dog Training Symposium that they are setting up

http://www.americanhumane.org/about-...symposium.html

My collie ate my kitchen too. She grew out of it, but I warn you she was about 2 before she matured and settled into a great dog. Basically you have a bored teenager there.

I currently have a rescue lurcher (collie/whippet/lurcher) who suffers from separation anxiety (in the form of excessive barking, he's not a chewer). Things that helped both dogs: Nylabone non edible products, Kong, treat ball, DAP diffuser, Bach's Rescue Remedy.

I'm not anti Milan, but I prefer Victori Stilwell's approach.

Have you considered getting involved with agilty or flyball? That's a good blend of mental and physical stimulation.

Check out this thread for more tips.