Kirsty was frustrated because Rhys was on the floor supposedly gathering customers to the stall, whereas she was behind a counter catering to those who are in front of her.

She also wasn't impressed with any of his 'zero' input as a project manager before the big day of selling.

That said, I'd have preferred her to be more upfront with her views in the boardroom and being challenged.

Yes, looks like you're right about that, it was the confectionery floor. It's just that I didn't see a single edible thing anywhere near their spot, just lots of greeting cards, books, jewelry and other stuff.

I think you may have misunderstood the 'dead man walking' comment. It was nothing to do with his performance in tasks, rasther than the fact that they just did not take him seriously due to him looking so young.

I agree, he could be astute but I think it was just down to that tribe mentality of perceiving him to be weak because he looks it.

To be honest with you, I've no idea how they perceived him.

I'm only going by the show itself and how 'we' the viewers are supposed to perceive him. I.e. the way that they put him across to ua. And to be honest with you, I thought he was cocky as hell, despite how he looked in appearance.

That's why I said I don't think that he's anything like a 'dead man walking'.

He seemed very self assured when he had something to say. And certainly he seemed assured himself on tonight's show when he said that nobody was going to beat him.

And believe it or not....................I actually started to believe that given his argument in the boardroom.

Like I said before, this young guy is made for politics.

His bio says he has won awards for debate & public speaking. He did sound good in the boardroom, but he seemed unable to articulate himself to his team. Perhaps he has to prepare his little speeches?

He disappointed me tonight, as I had thought him very sensible up to now. He turned into a rabbit in the headlights. Yes, he was unfairly & unwillingly forced into being Team Leader and I think the others were very nasty to him, in a very subtle passive aggressive way. I think a lot less of Tim & Hannah now. But he could have been a bit more of a leader, I think he found them intimidating. Although they are close in age, those two seem much older - and are so tall!

Anyone else thought that last night was edited to make it seem Zoe's team had lost? Its a trick they seem do every now and then on Apprentice

I wonder if the cup cake costume helped - I thought it fun and certainly better than Rhys wandering around saying "Cupcakes" in his half broken voice.

One thing that should have been explored more is just why did Zoe & Arjun not charge more for the personalised cakes? They saw them costing a third more in the cake shop

I thought that about the cake costume too - if they decided to go out and hire that off their own backs, then I wonder why that decision wasnt featured because it was actually a key part of their marketing strategy -and if so, a pretty unusual and edgy move and a good idea. If not and it was suggested/handed to them again, why wasn't it featured, because that would mean the other team declined. I thought that was odd.

I dont really agree with most on here (and the other JA thread in TV ) that Rhys's team had the worst pitch to sell from... Food hall in Selfridges is (I imagine!!) generally people buying provisions and wine, not impulse buying cup cakes to eat more-or-less there and then; the confectionery area where Rhys's team were I thought was great - right next to the cards - you dash in to pick up a greeting card, and a great quirky idea to pick up a personalised cake as well ... admittedly, if they were any good and not looking like they'd been iced by 5 year olds. What I mean is, it could have been a brilliant spot.

Being honest, there's no way I'd have spent the fat end of £3 on those cupcakes (either teams). They looked terrible!!

Its Selfridges though....the cupcakes are possibly the cheapest thing there.

But it was chicken and egg. It was apparent within seconds that he was useless as team leader so what else would they do but marginalise him? Kirsty took over the research and decision making. He then split the team so the two people who could cook were selling and the sronger sellers were not selling. He left Kirsty chained to a counter to serve the customers he didn't attract for her. He ends up with his kitchen crew doing nothing because he has no orders - but he doesn't rdeploy them either. Then he argues that they marginalised him and didn't support him when, if they had ignored him, and taken even more of a grip than Kirsty had, he would still have argued that they undermined him by marginalising him and ignoring his instructions.

It was Kirsty who pushed Rhys forward to be leader, rather than offering herself. It's not clear if she did that because she thought he would be good, and was then disappointed when he was so rubbish; or whether she was stitching him up from the start. I suspect the former, as Rhys seemed to be doing OK in earlier tasks. He was also quite articulate in the boardroom.

It was also Kirsty who claimed Rhys had wanted the PM role. Both times, Tim and Hannah were following Kirsty's lead.

It might be they declined as that costume would have consumed either Rhys or Kirsty. Or they thought it naff. It suited Zoe's selling style well. Look at me, buy me!! She'll be singing the theme tune next.

The boardroom scenes are as highly edited as the rest. A lot of things never seem to get mentioned.

Thanks

That thread has now been moved from the TV forum to the Apprentice forum.

Where it belongs.

It was a kind of double bluff really. First it looked like Zoe's team were doing well, getting loads of orders, while Rhys' team weren't selling. Then we saw Zoe's team's disgruntled customers getting fed up waiting, Adam barely functioning etc while Rhys' team got a flurry of sales at the end. But it turned out Zoe's team had won after all (if not very impressively).

Hannah could have worn it though, if Rhys had allocated his team differently.

There might be a rule about once you split your team it stays split. Those tasks have far more rules than the viewers get to hear. The production team has a history of changing things for one team and not the other. Odd costume to have about, maybe there was only one of them. We'll never know.

Hannah hasn't struck me as a great seller. Or even that confident. Nothing worse than someone in a stupid costume looking like they hope to be beamed up soon. Remember Raef as a bear? I think only Zoe (and perhaps Adam) has the chutzpah to sell while looking like a tit. Literally

After watching the show it seemed to me Rhys was stuck in a group of the "cool lot" you find at schools and colleges and they just didn't see it cool enough to listen to Rhys.

It's obvious Arjun, Zoe or Emma will win this and clearly wipe the floor with the other three who are just has beens.

Later we see Arjun in the costume, and he is short too. Usually the main rule for rearranging teams is that every team member must be with a camera crew, and there are only two camera crews per team. So if the teams are in different places, you can't bring just one member back because they'd be without a crew for the journey. For this day that wasn't an issue as they are all in the same building, and candidates were ferrying cakes between groups anyway.

I expect the real issue was that it takes a certain amount of practice to ice a cake well, and only the people who had been assigned to that on the first day could realistically cope with doing it on the second day.

I still have hopes that Tim will switch on and be great. It's getting too late though; it would be reasonable for ep4 in the adult series, but the junior series is too short.

I know, I'm hoping for that too, because I've defended him right from the start and know he has bags of potential.

The food hall and confectionary departments are actually next to each other at Selfridges on the Ground Floor so they can't have been very far from each other.

I do however, think that the food hall was a better pitch as I would head there to buy cakes and confectionary for expensive chocolates.

Also, the food hall has it's own external entrance so if you are in a rush (eg getting cakes for someone's birthday at work during your lunch hour) you'd head straight there from the street rather than traipsing through the entire shop which you need to do to get to Confectionary.

I speak as someone who worked in the West End for over 5 years and would visit Selfridges approx once a week at lunch - time was always a factor.

I think he does have potential and could be (have been?) a player in this competition. However, he also comes across as a complete wuss who ducks responsibility whenever he can. Give him a buck and he'll pass it in seconds! His list of excuses is getting longer and is still implausible. I hesitate to say more implausible as "Wind is my least favourite weather" has to be up there with the most ridiculous Apprentice excuses of all time.

I realise that these candidates are under eighteen and significantly less experienced than their adult counterparts but that doesn't excuse Tim's attitude - dodge everything you can for as long as you can and diss those who don't. They're all the same age and you can't avoid things forever.

Yeah, I agree. Plus his attitude in the last programme was disappointing.

I think what Tim is doing is playing The Apprentice like it's Survivor. He just wants to make it through each week and not put himself in any danger.

Though ironically he's the only one still in it that has been in the boardroom twice. He may have escaped being fired both times, but he has the biggest target on his back in Lord Sugar's mind.

Tim, Arjun, and arguably Kirsty (if you don't take her falling into the de facto PM role in Rhys' complete absence as active authority assuming) have all actively taken on the same amount of responsibility (and if Emma is PM for Revolution next week, Arjun will have dodged even more), it's just that Arjun and Kirsty are far smarter and quieter about it, and so look like less like shirkers. Tim can't resist opening his galumphing mouth to say things like "food's not my thing" so it looks like he's dodging positions he never should have been considered for in the first place, like the Project Manager position this week.

I don't think it's an active strategy like when Lee did it - I just think Tim's a bit diffident and doesn't like dealing with people outside his team (he seemed anxious about doing sales in week 1, and let that chef walk all over him), and isn't smart enough to stay under the radar the way others have. I don't really think he's suitable for the position, but I think it's weakness more than active tactics on his part.