I agree with that. Most drama including soaps and sci-fi cover similar themes at some point. Star Trek from TNG onwards certainly had 'soapy' moments. But I wouldn't call them soap influenced, but rather influenced by 'real life' drama subjects.

For me series 5 has retained some of those elements, but for me they don't take over the sci-fi/fantasy stuff. Personally I don't think they ever have in new Who, but in series 1-4 bordered on sentimentality a bit to much for my liking.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on what constitutes soap. And on the relationship between Jo and the Doctor, because I certainly never saw it like that.

I thought you did think they were bonking like bunnies.

Gavin and Stacey regularly gets 5-6 million viewers.

It had it's own Chrtistmas special episode aired on Christmas night which had 9 million viewers.

It is extremely popular both critically and with the public so yes, I would say it is big time.

I think it's a brilliant sit com and am proud to list it as one of my favourite programmes, along with Dr Who of course.

If you remove a human drama from DW, no matter if you call it soap or otherwise, you'll get a niche product. Previous management's choice to include it was to also appeal to people who like drama and for whom a sci-fi element was just a new backdrop.

I didn't say anything about having families in DW making it more soapy it was more about their characters. I loved Bernard Cribbins as Donna's granddad.

Yes, it is now more fairytale/gothic (admitted to be so by the chief writer) but fairy tales are at the root of the best of all fantasy fiction. My favourite episode of series 4 was 'Silence in the Library' which reminded me of one of the finest SF writers - Philip K Dick.

Its probably not something we are going to agree on...but it does seem you are picking and choosing what makes something "drama" and what makes something "soapy"

For example if the Joneses splitting up is soap because it happens in real life all the time, well the the whole marraige theme in the new series is also a soapy element because it too happens all the time....I know about five people who are to be married of this year alone, and I don't know anyone who is splitting up....

Also in terms of the splitting up theme, it was a couple of sentences....nothing more that was ever said...and actually played a part in the plot later on in Sound of Drums, when Francine tried to get Martha to come over her house because she and her ex were getting back to gether...this sent alarm bells ringing in Martha's head and she knew something was definitely wrong. If she had said "Oh that is brilliant mum, lets go back and talk to each other an play happy families! and that is then what we saw...and then her parents split up again, and then got back together again....I would be the firts to say that Doctor is nothing more than a soap and I would be the first to stop watching. But the fact is, it didn't take over the story, but played part of the plot as does the whole marriage theme between Rory and Amy.
Anothe example that you once pointed out was Jackie and alt Pete reuniting...at the expense of the Dalek and Cybermen fight...I will agree that the Dalek vs Cybermen battle was put at the back a bit, but again this doesn't make it soapy....its a drama still, because it led to Pete and Jackie (from different universes, so still sci-fi element there) going to the parallel world , which then led Rose to end up in the parallel world....that doesn't happen every day....it was drama about the end of travelling days of Rose, not many people can use a supernova to say goodbye, in fact in real life you don't often get to say Goodbye. It was a love story...but not a soap...and sci-fi can consititue love stories, they are not always about battles between two different races....as Amy's Choice also prooves.


Its all drama in the end...sentimental, emotional....and all that stuff yes...but not soapy....if the Doctor was real, he would most likley to bump into someone who has a family than he is an orphan...and chances are that the companion would take the opportunity to visit her freinds and families if she/he travelled in a time Machine. The like of father's day works because of the family element, the likes of tonight, and what I know of it, works because of the family element....even the past where a companion like Susan, Jo or Leela left, they left with very ordinary human element...love...it doesn't matter how much focus there was on it or not, the fact is to make it believable, they chose a human and simple and everyday reason for them to want to leave....not soapy....

The reason I said the family things is because you pointed towards Jackie and Rose but didn't elaborate, so I thought you were talking about families, which I apologise for.....although if you are talking about characters....I still don't see how it is soapy. That is how Rose and Jackie are...just like Amy is Amy and Rory is Rory...


Also when you said that now Doctor Who was truer to SF genre, you weren't talking about the science fiction side then? I won't argue it isn't fantasy.....

You're probably right there but thanks for an interesting debate anyway!

Maybe it would be easier to say Doctor Who is a good combination of Sci-Fi/Fantasy, Drama, Soap and any other type of genre. That why it's so diverse.

Yes a brilliant writer this is one of my favourite episodes too. What if any books by PKD were you thinking of.

Thing about calling it soap is that things that aren't are easily dismissed as it as well...even in soaps they have drama, but what makes it so "soapy" is the exaggerartion of those drama moments....for example everyone in one town has an affair, everyone becaomes an arsonist, everyone ends up with some form of illness, everyone seems to turn into a murderer, and its always a who dunnit at some point...everyone ends up being in Prison....everyone leaves in a black taxi to manchester...and things like that...it takes the everyday life, and makes to the extreme. While in Doctor Who, you have the sci-fi elements, and the drama, and the everyday stuff gets caught in that....for example a Rose's Dead dad....Rose goes back in time, and then saves him....in a soap he would have just returned with no problems

If it was Dallas, he'd have just popped up in the shower......

And in a soap, one person would go through all that in about....4 weeks?

I think Dr Who is sciency- fantasy.
Its not hard core sci-fi, but there's enough technobable to make it not complete fantasy
And there is a lot of drama... but i think its less blunt than in soaps.


I love the sublty of S5... it's not so in your face as the characters of S1-4 (e.g. Rose!)
And the plots are much more clever.
And i love the intricate story arcs....

lol yes....or does waking up with crystals causing you to sleep count as the same?


Lol yes exactly!!!


I'd have to disagree with the subtly of this current series....for me its no more subtle than the last five years....but it seems that for many it is....maybe I pick up on emotions more than others Oh I have to disagree about the clever plots too...sorry

Maybe, far too complicated for the likes of Dallas though!

i dunno the whole concept around Bobby Ewen stepping out of a shower and it all being a dream is a wee bit like Amy's Choice, no?

Yes, thee is a similarity and how I would have loved to have seen pam Ewing as a Doctor Who companion!

a bit too glamorous for the role, perhaps...

I feel she has couple of points in common with Peri which would overcome that.......

It took me untill the weeping angels 2 parter to really get into this new series, to get matts doctor, to understand where he is coming from,

I have to admit i was a big tennant fan, but now to be honest matt has won me over in a big way, it usually takes me a few episodes to get into a new doctor it did with No,5 No,6 but not No'7 as with i just could't get away with the little scotts man.

i love the way this new series has been filmed, the way some shots look and feel. i was really looking forward to the Moff takin over as his episodes where among my favs of the last 4 series. at 1st i felt a little let down but not any more. i look forward every week as i used too.

To be honest i loved the Eleventh hour, but it kind of went down a little in my eyes with the following episodes, they will probs feel a bit better now since ive got to grips with the change even though i watched them a couple of times when 1st on.

Tennant got better as he went on but for me it was his last series that he was at his best. now matt has really shined in his 1st series, whats he going to be like in his 2nd and 3rd.

As for amy pond there is still some thing not clicking for me, i got with rose marther and donna straight away, but i suppose you cant have everything lets hope she improves.