• TV
  • MOVIES
  • MUSIC
  • SHOWBIZ
  • SOAPS
  • GAMING
  • TECH
  • FORUMS
  • Follow
    • Follow
    • facebook
    • twitter
    • google+
    • instagram
    • youtube
Hearst Corporation
  • TV
  • MOVIES
  • MUSIC
  • SHOWBIZ
  • SOAPS
  • GAMING
  • TECH
  • FORUMS
Forums
  • Register
  • Login
  • Forums
  • TV
  • Doctor Who
Mysogyny ?
<<
<
3 of 6
>>
>
capt.shoegazer
31-05-2010
Originally Posted by CustardCreamed:
“Personally I'd like to see a female 12th Doctor. That would be brilliant. Someone hot, who is a complex character.
( It would certainly put paid to any accusations of backwardness and misogyny about the show ).”

Doctor Who is such an essentially brilliant and in many ways flexible concept that it can survive most things....except the above. The day that happens is the day the show dies. Permanently.
capt.shoegazer
31-05-2010
And as for the OP? Risible stuff really. The same sought of misguided outrage that occured when Basic Instinct was released. Thousands of angry lesbians picketing and marching to voice their anger that the main protagonist was bi sexual./lesbian and that the implication was that they were inhernetly deviant- utter nonsense of course. Every section of society can contain its bad apples and this should apply to all race, gender and sexuality.
CoalHillJanitor
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by rwebster:
“"Dodgy portrayals" is giving the original argument too much credit. Portraying women as real people with flaws and feelings just like anyone else is what this episode did.
”

Ironically, if you go back a year or so you'll find people on this forum criticising Steven Moffat for allegedly being unable to portray a non-idealised female character with flaws (which was obvious rubbish for anyone who had seen any of his pre-DW work).
outside
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by capt.shoegazer:
“Doctor Who is such an essentially brilliant and in many ways flexible concept that it can survive most things....except the above. The day that happens is the day the show dies. Permanently.”

Don't agree. I'd like to see a female Doctor... though I'm not sure I want one and it'd take a brave production team and actor to go through with it but why not? There are just as many great female actors as there are male.

Joanna Lumley in "The Curse of Fatal Death" was just as good as her predecessors (Hugh Grant, etc.) and in Big Finish's "Exile" audio, Arabella Weir was excellent (ignoring the juvenile sub-"Men Behaving Badly" script).

Matt Smith should regenerate into Julia Davis or Jessica Hynes as soon as possible.
CustardCreamed
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by capt.shoegazer:
“Doctor Who is such an essentially brilliant and in many ways flexible concept that it can survive most things....except the above. The day that happens is the day the show dies. Permanently.”

Disagree mate. I think the day that happens would be the day of the highest viewer ratings in the entire history of the show !
It would be the most dramatic regeneration ever. It would also bring a freshness and relevance to the show.
I think they'd need a new writer though aswell as a charismatic female lead. Someone like Joss Whedon ( Buffy ) would be fantastic I think.
CustardCreamed
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by outside:
“Don't agree. I'd like to see a female Doctor... though I'm not sure I want one and it'd take a brave production team and actor to go through with it but why not? There are just as many great female actors as there are male.

Joanna Lumley in "The Curse of Fatal Death" was just as good as her predecessors (Hugh Grant, etc.) and in Big Finish's "Exile" audio, Arabella Weir was excellent (ignoring the juvenile sub-"Men Behaving Badly" script).

Matt Smith should regenerate into Julia Davis or Jessica Hynes as soon as possible. ”

I'd like somebody a bit younger, but with an old soul, if you know what I mean. In my head, she's a total smart-ass, with a bit of an attitude, but totally likeable.
tingramretro
01-06-2010
The Doctor is male. There has never been any indication given that Time Lords can spontaneously change sex and it would be utterly ludicrous. Which is why it will never happen.
nebogipfel
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“The Doctor is male. There has never been any indication given that Time Lords can spontaneously change sex and it would be utterly ludicrous. Which is why it will never happen.”

You mean - Fatal Death isn't canon?!!
<frantically makes crossings out in big dusty notebook>
smudges dad
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by Verence:
“Nasreen seemed fairly reasonable”

I it reasonable to expect an asian woman geologist to be in charge of a billion pound project to drill to the centre of the earth?

Methinks yes
Listentome
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by rwebster:
“"Dodgy portrayals" is giving the original argument too much credit. Portraying women as real people with flaws and feelings just like anyone else is what this episode did.

I've said it before, and I'm saying it again. If you're watching a woman portrayed in a way which isn't clear-cut perfect, and thinking "that's a bit sexist," that's horrifically patronising. That's a disgusting way to treat women. Being offended on their behalf because a character in a sci-fi programme did what she felt was right on behalf of her family? Yeah, very sexist.

Not to mention, Ambrose was an individual character. Not a stereotype. If you're generalising every woman you see on television to "the writer's perception of every woman ever," you are monumentally deluded. It's like you don't understand storytelling!

This episode had three flawed women. It also had one incredibly strong female character, one male character who was irresponsible and let a kid get abducted (more irresponsible than Ambrose would have ever been, at that), and one male character whose curiosity bordered on psychopathicness.

All I've managed to glean from this thread is that the OP has a kneejerk reaction to anything that's not clear-cut, a confused reaction to drama, and a patronising attitude to women.”

Exactly my view. If we're to label those episodes as being sexist because of their portrayal of women, then we might as well apply the same rule to all works of fiction with flawed female characters. That includes works of fiction written by women, about women, for women.

I have always felt to portray all women, black people, gay people etc as perfect upstanding individuals incredibly patronizing. It would be ludicrous to argue that The End of Time was racist because Naismith and his daughter were portrayed as evil, self seeking villains. At they end of the day they were just individuals (who happened to be black) with an agenda.

People are individuals after all, not collectives that all behave the same way. It is the flawed nature of the female characters in The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood that makes them engaging. I was much more interested in the female Silurians over the male ones.

I could easily say Doctor Who is sexist towards men because The Doctor is fundamentally a flawed character. He makes mistakes, he is arrogant at times. But the best heroes are the imperfect ones.
sebbie3000
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“The Doctor is male. There has never been any indication given that Time Lords can spontaneously change sex and it would be utterly ludicrous. Which is why it will never happen.”

It has been shown they can at least choose their forms when regenerating (a la Romana) - and she at least once tries a different species. It would be arrogant to suggest that gender differences are the same for alien species as they are for us on our planet.

In fact the Timelords themselves might be very different in that respect in the first place.

Just because it hasn't been addressed yet does not mean it will never happen, and as it hasn't been covered definitively either way in any form of Doctor Who's expanded canonicity means it could happen at some point.
CoalHillJanitor
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by sebbie3000:
“It has been shown they can at least choose their forms when regenerating (a la Romana) - and she at least once tries a different species. It would be arrogant to suggest that gender differences are the same for alien species as they are for us on our planet.

In fact the Timelords themselves might be very different in that respect in the first place.

Just because it hasn't been addressed yet does not mean it will never happen, and as it hasn't been covered definitively either way in any form of Doctor Who's expanded canonicity means it could happen at some point.”

I wouldn't call it arrogant. As far as the Time Lords are concerned, it's a rational inference from what the writers of the programme have shown us thus far.
sebbie3000
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by CoalHillJanitor:
“I wouldn't call it arrogant. As far as the Time Lords are concerned, it's a rational inference from what the writers of the programme have shown us thus far.”

I suppose what you said just there really is the point I was getting at - things change in Doctor Who all the time, so gender differences are merely subjective until proven otherwise.

But as we've not had the explicit relationships of all aliens/monsters displayed on our screens, I think it is slightly arrogant to take our pattern and impose it on the other species'. (That''s also how I feel about real science - we are supremely arrogant when it comes to looking for life on other planets = if it can't sustain us, then there's no way life could be on it - also addressed in Midnight)
CustardCreamed
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“The Doctor is male. There has never been any indication given that Time Lords can spontaneously change sex and it would be utterly ludicrous. Which is why it will never happen.”

Nonsense. One of the newly-regenerated 11th Doctor's first phrases was " I'm a girl ! " , which he suspected he might be since he found that his hair was now longer.
This is definitely an indication that they can potentially be of either sex.
I think the reason there have been 11 male Doctors had more to do with the times than anything else. When it first started, the concept of shows like "Grey's Anatomy" etc. would have been unheard of.
dalekaddison
01-06-2010
I don't think the Doctor should change race, gender or ability.

<Grabs coat and quickly scuttles out>
tingramretro
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by CustardCreamed:
“Nonsense. One of the newly-regenerated 11th Doctor's first phrases was " I'm a girl ! " , which he suspected he might be since he found that his hair was now longer.
This is definitely an indication that they can potentially be of either sex.
I think the reason there have been 11 male Doctors had more to do with the times than anything else. When it first started, the concept of shows like "Grey's Anatomy" etc. would have been unheard of.”

Since I've never seen Grey's Anatomy and have no idea what it's about, I can't comment on that. But the Doctor is male and speaking personally, I would not be able or willing to accept a female Doctor, nor I suspect would most other people.
tingramretro
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by dalekaddison:
“I don't think the Doctor should change race, gender or ability.

<Grabs coat and quickly scuttles out> ”

I don't think race is such an issue, but changing his sex? No. Never. It would be ridiculous. He would no longer be the same character.
capt.shoegazer
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by CustardCreamed:
“Nonsense. One of the newly-regenerated 11th Doctor's first phrases was " I'm a girl ! " , which he suspected he might be since he found that his hair was now longer.
This is definitely an indication that they can potentially be of either sex.
I think the reason there have been 11 male Doctors had more to do with the times than anything else. When it first started, the concept of shows like "Grey's Anatomy" etc. would have been unheard of.”

yes, what a positively splendid idea...I think Doctor Who could definitely learn something from shows like Greys Anatomy, The Gilmore Girls and even things like The OC. It is certainly time it modernised a little. enough of this turgid british fuddyduddyness. We need more sunshine, more 'issues'. bigger breasts and each episode ending with a montage set to My Chemical Romance or Coldplay or something. Yes! Yes! Perhaps that girl from The Hills could be the next doctor. and K$sha could guest star as a dalek.
CustardCreamed
01-06-2010
[quote=capt.shoegazer;40619657]" yes, what a positively splendid idea...I think Doctor Who could definitely learn something from shows like Greys Anatomy ".

I agree with this post up as far as here
capt.shoegazer
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“I don't think race is such an issue, but changing his sex? No. Never. It would be ridiculous. He would no longer be the same character.”

The doctor can be any race, colour, size, shape and even sexuality but he must ALWAYS be male.

If people are that desperate for a female timelord then write some fan fiction or lobby the BBC for a spin off series.

Would Sherlock Holmes/Spiderman/James Bond/Batman/Quatermass/Superman/Othello benefit from being played by a female? No of course not. The fact they are played and portrayed as male is integral to the character.

In the same way Buffy/Jane Eyre/Wonder Woman/Charlies Angels/Cagney and Lacey/Desdemona etc etc would not benefit in anyway from being played by a male.

The whole idea is utter nonsense.
CustardCreamed
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by capt.shoegazer:
“The doctor can be any race, colour, size, shape and even sexuality but he must ALWAYS be male.

If people are that desperate for a female timelord then write some fan fiction or lobby the BBC for a spin off series.

Would Sherlock Holmes/Spiderman/James Bond/Batman/Quatermass/Superman/Othello benefit from being played by a female? No of course not. The fact they are played and portrayed as male is integral to the character.

In the same way Buffy/Jane Eyre/Wonder Woman/Charlies Angels/Cagney and Lacey/Desdemona etc etc would not benefit in anyway from being played by a male.

The whole idea is utter nonsense.”

Wow - that's one rigid gender barrier you've got there mate.
capt.shoegazer
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by CustardCreamed:
“Wow - that's one rigid gender barrier you've got there mate.”

I cant help but get rigid when discussing Buffy.
capt.shoegazer
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by CustardCreamed:
“Wow - that's one rigid gender barrier you've got there mate.”

And come on! Are you that desperate to see SheLock Holmes?

No, of course not.
CustardCreamed
01-06-2010
Originally Posted by capt.shoegazer:
“And come on! Are you that desperate to see SheLock Holmes?

No, of course not.”

There've been plenty of shows about female detectives/private investigators - so no I'm not.
But a female timelord - now that would be interesting, not to mention revolutionary.
dvirgo
01-06-2010
There've been plenty of shows about female detectives/private investigators - so no I'm not.
But a female timelord - now that would be interesting, not to mention revolutionary.


Errrrr....Romana?
<<
<
3 of 6
>>
>
VIEW DESKTOP SITE TOP

JOIN US HERE

  • Facebook
  • Twitter

Hearst Corporation

Hearst Corporation

DIGITAL SPY, PART OF THE HEARST UK ENTERTAINMENT NETWORK

© 2015 Hearst Magazines UK is the trading name of the National Magazine Company Ltd, 72 Broadwick Street, London, W1F 9EP. Registered in England 112955. All rights reserved.

  • Terms & Conditions
  • Privacy Policy
  • Cookie Policy
  • Complaints
  • Site Map