You know as a new Dr Who fan, the worse episodes for me are those in which the writer, producer - or whoever, tries to preach something at the audience. Tonight's message was "an eye for an eye is never good for anybody". Fair enough, I'm a lefty myself. I don't usually like the idea of war... but sometimes... blah blah blah. I can't be bothered to explain myself here. Well any ways, what i found completely odd about tonight's episode was the fact that the mother was painted as the stupid woman who acted with her heart and not with her brain. But... Wasn't she completely provoked by that alien bitch? Didn't she have her son kidnapped? Her husband kidnapped and her father dying because that broad decided to give him a lick? Wasn't she just being a protected reactionary mother? Something that comes naturally to all of us... (Well I would imagine it would be natural to us)?

So with that in mind, I found it ****ing insulting when the Dr says to the mother, when he finds out that she had killed that green thing ('Lady Gaga's next outfit' lets just call them that), that she was the "worse of humanity"? What? She was just being a mother surely? Yes what she did was in the end, foolish... But **** me, how the hell was she to know that the human captives had turned all UN and were negotiating with the aliens? Bad writing or what?

Hmm... And then with her son backing away from her when he finds out what she had done... I mean come on... No really come on!

I'm sorry, I know this show is aimed at 8 year olds (well it isn't, its a family show, but you no what I mean)... But that doesn't mean it has to shy away from shades of grey (in fact, the best episodes dont)... What the mother did was foolish, but by no means 'bad' or so terrible that her own son needs to back away from her in disgust. It's just too holier then thou for me I'm afraid. The Dr isn't God and he needs to stop this God complex because it is beginning to irritate me... No one likes a smug smart arse... Even if the smart arse is the Dr.

I'm sorry, I just needed to get this off my chest lol. It's a small thing but it kind of hampered my enjoyment of that episode... Perhaps it is just me that feels this way... But hey.

p.s. sorry about my poor use of grammar, it is 3am in the morning at the time of writing this.

maybe so, but surely the mother must have worked out that killing her was exactly what the Silurian wanted.

Actually, it worked well - both it terms of humanity and in terms of the Doctor's attitude this series.

Ten would have reacted completely differently to Eleven - Eleven has a more alien streak, he doesn't accept or want to understand the complexities of humanity, and to what lengths a lost husband, poisoned father and kidnapped son can drive a mother. Rory could understand (he never once rounded on Ambrose) and Amy would have done, but the Doctor sees things in black and white, and saw that the chance to reunite mankind and the Homo Reptilia had been harmed so reacted in a harsh way.

The Doctor may have called Ambrose 'the worst of humanity'...but the plot never did.

So murder is ok in your book then?

The Doctor in part one specifically said they needed to keep the Silurian alive as a bargaining chip to get her son and husband back, she didn't trust the Doctor obviously and decided to take matters into her own hands, resulting in the death of Alaya and the further elongation of the Silurians hibernation.

The Doctor has spent most of the new series bigging up the humans, he did it again in this episode, so it is only natural for him to go off the handle a bit when he is let down by one of them!

I thought there were a lot of positive messages regarding war and differences between peoples and being the best you can be in this episode.

I don't find Matt Smith smug at all, if this had been Tennant I suspect he would have come over a bit more smug with the same dialogue though

I think its a matter of history with the Silurians. Basically with the doctors previous encounters they've never come out of it would most of them being slaughtered by humans. Although i think the doctor understands the bonds between family he generally sees the big picture ie: if you kill the captured alien there will be a war. thus confirming everything the silurians believe about humans.

I think the reaction to ambrose was great because it wasn't that straight forward. she wanted her child back and decided to use torture. Its didn't work it was murderer. Now it all begs the question whether its acceptable or not the doctor character has always tried the unviolent way to solve problems his reaction to ambrose worked for me. He son would have been glad to see her but imagine if you mother had just killer someone,how would you react?

This is why wimmin should stick to watching eastenders!

98% of our DNA is the same as all apes. Our maternal instincts are one of the things we share with them. Just as we all have to the instinct to kill when threatened.

In the last two percent is our intellect, empathy and compassion. Intellect told her that keeping the woman alive was the best way to get her family back. That last 2% is what makes us human. She let base instincts get the better of her.

It's true that a lot of us would have done the same. This was why the Doctor asked them to be the best humans they could be.

As said, in the kids programme Monkey. Emotions are important and cannot be ignore. But one should strive to control them; otherwise the tail shall wag the dog. (I hope that makes sense)

How did this escape from the Mysogyny thread?

Apropos negotiations. So, if the two, Amy and the other one whose name I could not forget, because I never knew it, so if they said yes, what power would that yes had. They were not speaking for anybody else than themselves

I agree that Ambrose was provoked beyond reason, but the Silurian was an unarmed prisoner whose only weopon was provocation. While the Doctor may have called her the worst of humanity the program gave her a chance to redeem herself by raising Eliot to be a better person. So being a Mother brought out the worst of her humanity by making her act without reason, but it will also bring out the best as she raises her son in a way that promotes peace and understanding.

My perception was that Ambrose reacted as she did more because of the sort of person she was than because she was a woman or a mother. Her reaction to provocation is understandable and she regretted it almost immediately. The Doctor is also understandably disappointed that she didn't do what he'd asked her to do.

there's nothing wrong with having some sympathy with the mother, at the end of the day herself and the Silurian sisters were like two sides of the same coin - both wanted to protect what was dear to them, but both made totally the wrong choices in order to do it.

And as others said, Ambrose knew very well why she had to keep Alaya alive both in the last episode and this one, so perhaps you better try watching the episodes a bit more closely before claiming there was "bad writing" going on. It was all very clearly explained. And as we saw had they taken Alaya down there alive then a peace treaty could have been sold.

Further the Doctor wasn't the least bit smug at any point in that episode, he was gutted that his efforts to bring about peace were ruined by Ambrose's poor decision making twice over. Even Ambrose herself admitted she got it wrong.

What a comfort this thread is!

I never realised before that by the simple expedient of having had a kid, a 'mother' could be granted carte blanche to torture and kill any manner of other creature/species held hostage, despite having been strongly warned that the welfare of the hostage was essential to negotiating a peaceful solution.

Motherhood, as well as permitting individual murder, apparently also carries the right to emotionally blackmail one's father into creating a situation in which an entire species would be wiped out if the all-important maternal being doesn't get her own way.

What a fool I was to choose to miss out on such power!

I don't sympathize with neither torture or murder... She killed her only chance to save her family, her actions put not only them in danger but the whole world

To me it would be the same as accept war crimes

and that's another point: although her father isn't dead, he has been removed from his family's life permanently, again thanks to her actions, so she didn't even manage to achieve her own objective in the end.

Well, worst of humanity, I don't think she'd have made my Top 100 list or any top list for that matter. She reacted the way many people would have in her situation. Those who manipulate them into this reaction are to blame.

Well I for one agree 100% with the OP, That lizard thing deserved to die.

Being an adult means you take full responsiblity for your actions.

How come? She made the decision to arm herself. Throughout her position was one of aggression.

Yes, but being put under pressure and with no one around to talk to changes your behaviour, it's different from making a decision from a sofa.

So if I threatened your family, maybe even killed one or two you wouldn't fight back?

how can you 100% agree with the OP when it is factually wrong (when she talks about how was Ambrose supposed to know...)

Well, that's exactly where one's degree of "humanity" is actually revealed. Like the gom jabbar test on Paul in Dune.

Ambrose failed on that account; though this seemed pretty stereotypical to me (hence predictable). I guess another mother might have trusted in the Doctor's plan.

And I don't sympathise much with stereotypical mothers, makes me yawn instead.

Ok 99% then, besides the so called negotiations were meaningless, no different to you and I discussing the world's problems over a pint in the snug of the Brick and Ferret.

So Amy gives away Nevada, the Sahara Desert and Western Australia and Obama, Gaddafi and Rudd don't have a problem with this?

I would have ripped the freakin lizard apart with my bare hands to get my child back

but then again Im not dopey and would have sussed the lizard was my bargaining chip so would have waited until I had my child in my arms

They wont once they get the technology that goes with the deal.

I always thought the sea devils were a bit harsh as we don't live in the sea. Having said that we would have had all of those problems with fishing rights.