Just a few thoughts about the soldiers who were erased from time in the Weeping Angels story, and more recently Rory.

I wondered what if a person with kids was erased from time - would their kids vanish too or just forget about them?

The reason I've asked is that the soldiers being erased in Flesh and Stone didn't impact in the story at all - surely the adventure would have taken a different path had they not been involved? And the same with Rory too. Wouldn't things have played out differently for Amy (and the Doctor) if he'd never existed?

The reason I'm asking is that Amy seemed to lead a very lonely life in that big six-bedroomed house. I am wondering if her parents/family had slowly be erased until only she remained - and that she was left behind for a reason.

I dont think their being erased from time, as such, I think they are possibly travelling to another existence/dimension/time line or something.

"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually — from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint — it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff."

Does that help? I vote that the kids may or may not still exist depending on factors beyond our understanding (ie, the scriptwriter's whim).

If the crack erases you, you was never born. Therefore, if you have kids, they were never born either. But I don't think it matters, as nobody who's been erased that way is known to have children.

Maybe as Time is a "Wibbly wobbly blob" (Please note i hate the phrase "wibbly wobbly timey wimey"). Then perhaps Amys parents were destroyed from time and this supposed aunt doesn't actually exist? Maybe new parents aren't created just an excuse in the mind as to why there aren't any? This would also show why they end up in the same place everytime something disappears in the crack. The disappear and no one remembers them but events are led to the same place. Amy hasn't got any of these things so the universe makes her think her aunt is out and she never questions it nor does anyone else as that explains how she was made (by saying her parents are dead or whatever) without actually having any parents.

I hope that makes sense

Don't worry i know it doesn't

It's just the fact that Amy lived in a six-bedroomed house that was completely empty apart from her - seems like an explanation waiting to happen.

I don't think this erased from time thing will cause the child to be erased if the parent is erased. Time will be rewritten so the child will have other non-erased parents. Although, it can still mean she doesn't remember her "new" parents, never met them or that they died after she was born.

It doesn't seem like her aunt is erased as Amelia has a drawing on her fridge showing a house with a female child and an older female (more likely the aunt than Amelias mom or the grown-up Amy).

Also, the drawings. There's none showing more people than the one on the fridge. If she ever made a picture with her parents, I'm sure she or her aunt would have saved it and framed it.

Is the wedding dress still in the wardrobe? If so, who is she to marry?

I think the explanation from Turn Left can be used here too.

"by changing time, by making someone's life take a different turn, like, meetings never made... children never born... a life never loved."

"Changes a life in tiny little ways. Most times, the universe just compensates around it, but with you... great big parallel world!"

I think they would still exist but there would be a reason created why they don't remember their mom and dad.

One thing I'm wondering. With Rory erased from existence, is Amy gonna try and jump the Doctor again?

I hope not. I was glad when she and Rory sorted things out because it meant she wouldn't.

As explained using the duck pond analogy in F&S:

There were no ducks on the duckpond, yet it was still a duck pond. The fact they were no longer there didn't mean they hadn't had an influence on their surroundings.

This is how the doctor managed to explain the missing soldiers not affecting their mission, or the fact that the original angel would have been erased when swallowed by the crack, yert they had still demonstrably been on the mission - no one elase would have any idea why they had gone, as the original reason to have gone would now no longer exist, nor would Father Octavian, who was the only reason River was allowed there.

The reason this had all happened still was that the influence the soldiers and the angels had whilst they existed still stood. I'm sure there will be more advanced explanations in the later episodes, but that is as it stands according to in-episode explanations.

I agree with Sebbie - The influence of the Angels, Soldiers and indeed that of the Crack HAD to still stand. Why? Well if not - then When the Angel (the original one in that story which LED to an Army of Angels eventually being created) was swallowed by the crack; Then, IF it's influence was cancelled out, the whole PURPOSE of the Doctor's Mission in that story would have effectively disappeared; The spaceflight during which he found River would never have taken place, the soldiers who were all killed/wiped out of time would have come back to life (even 'Angel Bob') And Amy would Never have been blind/had memories of being terrified and chased by the Angels. However All of that remained as 'done' and as Historical facts. NONE of it was undone, the Angels were destroyed/erased yes but their influence - Along with that of the deeds they had carried out and those of the soldiers, as well as all the deaths suffered during the episodes Remained as facts. Therefore some influence HAD to have survived somewhere.............

NB Does Anyone know who those sinister looking figures in black chasing River before she blasted off through Space to the Tardis were? That never was explained during the Time of Angels Episode. Yet I thought they seemed rather important at the time before she knocked out the airlock and killed them. I wonder Who they were and how they were significant to River Song?

I'm sure one of them was Eastenders legend and father of George, Larry Lamb.



I've decided that the crack must be causing the crack. I.e, the numerous paradox's caused by its existence are causing time and space to splinter, which is causing cracks to appear and the paradox's caused by their existence are causing time and space to splinter.........

Also, i'm absolutely convinced that people aren't popping out of existence they are going through the cracks to an other timeline/reality or such like.

The fish people used the cracks as a door, so did prisoner zero, why did they not fall out of existence?

Unless they appeared to stop existing to people on their side of the crack. Something about the way the crack is acting doesn't quite square up with what we are assuming it is.

It's not so much that their influence survived, but that events leading up to that point were reshaped so as not to require them.... In theory. Of course, the explanation can be whatever they want it to be.

The people chasing River were the security crew of the Byzantium, presumably. She broke into their hold to track down the Angel. And she didn't kill them, she deliberately told them to hold on, and it was mentioned earlier that the airlock would have sealed right behind her and wouldn't have caused the crash.

Jeff. The good-looking one.

So if Amy's entire family had been swallowed by the crack - Amy would still exist but she wouldn't remember her parents/siblings and end up living basically on her own in a great big house.

It's probably wrong but I'm going with that anyway.

It's been explained in-episode too. That very episode in fact - some of the cracks lead to other places, some lead to the the end of the universe.

And it's the energy of the crack erasing them from existence, not the crack itself. You can pass through the crack fine, as demonstrated by the Doctor himself in Cold Blood.

Also, they can't have ceased to exist, as the Atraxi clearly remembered that there had been a Prisoner Zero. As the Atraxi don't appear to be time travellers (otherwise they would have been able to go back in time to earth shortly after Prisoner Zero had escaped as soon as they knew where he was), and I'm assuming they would have dealt with PZ quite a few times as prison guards - that would mean PZ is part of their personal timeline. Both of these mean that they would forget PZ had he been absorbed by the crack's energy and been deleted from existence.
Last edited by sebbie3000 : 01-06-2010 at 12:48

Correct - according to the Doctor she would forget them all. So as she clearly remembered them, they can't have been swallowed by the crack's energy.

When did she say she remembered her family?

Which is interesting, because it had been speculated that the young Amelia might have been time traveling, in which case she would remember her parents after they were erased. Except the loss of Rory contradicts that, and suggests that she would have still forgotten them.

Perhaps they are not "erased" from time but held in limbo much like Sarah Jane Smith was when the trickster was able to change the events which resulted in SJS dying and her sister living. See the SJA episode: Whatever Happened to Sarah Jane? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whateve..._Sarah_Jane%3F

I think people tend to "forget" rather than the timeline rewrites itself. I mean if Rory never exsisted then he could never have helped the Doctor in TEH and the following episodes and thus we would of had a different outcome.

She said her mother carved faces into apples when she was small. If that wasn't her mother she remembered, it was someone pretending to be.

When she was younger - it hasn't come up since then. But as she remembered them then, that is the default until proven otherwise, by in-episode explanations.

Unless things that happen before you start travelling in time are immune to that effect...

That is a good point, but is contradicted by the information we have been given so far.

Quite plausible though, and might be something the Doctor doesn't even know yet...
Last edited by sebbie3000 : 01-06-2010 at 13:15