I think 'didn't have' would be more accurate.

Unfortunately, retrofitting the required hardware (or BIOS equivalent) mod is not a practical proposition so we're stuck with it).

I'm surprised they haven't made the change for newly manufactured models, though. It is a major cock up and one I would have thought they'd want affecting as few models 'in the field' as possible.

It's a pity that no there's Humax representative who will explain the exact situation and their position.

Not at all. This needs a minor change to the loader and is retrofittable,

I have never had this problem, despite many powercuts.

Possibly because all my electronic equipment is protected by UPS units which keep them running and also protect them from any power surges.

UPS units are less than £50 and are a worthwhile purchase.

That said, Humax should still have fixed this problem.

Do you have some sort of backup link for that statement?

You'd need to know quite a bit about the intimate details of the Humax hardware to credibly make such a claim. Particularly as it seems at odds with their behaviour on this issue.

I'll admit I should have said "is probably not a practical proposition".

FYI, I have just written to Humax Head Office, NOT their Cust Service, complaining about no fixes for the box losing timer/program info and time slip recording ending at program's scheduled end time.
I have also referred them to this thread and asked if they will post a response to these issues for everyone's benefit - but I'm not holding my breath ............

I suppose if it can be fixed it would be in the boot loader part of the operating system which can be updated from a usb flash drive but not over the air.

http://www.humaxdigital.com/uk/suppo...tegory_seq=65# (current version 7.53).

Will be interesting to see if you do get a reply back about this, if any

Just happened to be looking at the forum and thought it was pertinent that I comment:

I am currently in Korea and have had further discussions with the head of the development for the freesat products this morning. We discussed the request and he will look at the feasibility of it again while he is looking at some other issues as well. I am afraid this is another wait-and-see message but I can say the issue is not forgotten.

Changing the boot-loader of a CE product *is* a significant act and so even *if* this feature is added it won't be part of any update which we broadcast over the air. It would be an additional manual update, which could be done in a simple process using a standard USB flash disk. If we were to broadcast an update to the boot-loader we would be risking "bricking" a portion of the population of products and many more customer would be in a much worse situation than we are now.

Bob @ Humax

Thanks for the update.

So, from what you say, there is no hardware constraint that prevents the software being changed to overcome this problem.

Would that include the recent failures to record Lewis on ITV HD ?

I thought the consenuse was that that was a broadcast problem?

The consensus could be wrong.

There's a claim from a Panasonic PVR owner that it recorded first 3 episodes correctly.

Also, if it is purely a broadcast issue (ie no start signal sent), I'd like there to be an option to record regardless.

Actually what I'd like is the option to have it:
- start recording at the EARLIER of scheduled start and AR start signal, with a bookmark automatically added at the AR start so a resume playback would start from the AR point

- stop recording at the LATER of AR stop/scheduled duration, but never more than (say) 2 hours later than scheduled stop - to avoid a missing AR stop signal causing recording to continue till the hard drive has filled up (never had this myself but there have been seperate reports)

[The above assumes that the AR system is rather naive and just sends a start and stop signal for each programme, I'd expect it to be a bit more sophisticated than that, for example being able to explicitly flag late-running/ overrunning programs, or change in schedule which ought to allow better automatic handling as the PVR could then revert to scheduled time if no flag telling it to delay the start was received - anyone know how the AR system is implemented on Freesat ? Can't find any specification for it online - I'm guessing it's in the DTG D-book but that's only available to members]

It may be that it was caused by a broadcast problem but well written software would work around that by doing a sanity check when it has gleaned enough information to be able to display the red 'record' flag in the information box but not got the start flag a short time later.

Similarly, on those occasions where people have reported a severely truncated recording a sanity check should determine that a programme that is listed in the EPG at, e.g. 60 mins and has only been recording for 3 should revert to the scheduled duration.

That is exactly what my Topfield 5800 does. Now if only they were to produce a DVB-T2 / HD version ...

I've only owned two pvr's - Topfield 5800 and Humax HDR. I believe both were designed and manufactured in Korea. Both machines were initially unable to recover from a power cut when in standby. Thanks to some very clever owners and the 'open' nature of the firmware, the Topfield eventually had this bug removed. We are still waiting for Humax. Perhaps another clever owner could reverse engineer the loader software?

Clearly, Korea never, ever, has a power cut else this bug would never have got past the initial testing stage during development. Perhaps in Korea, the people responsible for maintaining the national electricity system would be shot if they failed in their duties?

Geoff

If it is really so hard for Humax to sort out some new BIOS code, perhaps they could release enough information to allow someone else to have a go?

New BIOS would at least solve the problem for future buyers and anyone who can install an update.

It usually requires a link on the motherboard to be moved or removed to invoke a BIOS update on this type of product so it might be that Humax think this is too much of a risk. I for one would be pleased to take that risk.

The problem can be fixed without anything as drastic as that. The loader can be updated via USB.

From what Robert Cat said it isn't a 'BIOS' type of problem. I speculated that it might be as Humax haven't done anything about a rather fundamental problem for many months and that would have been an explanation.

If the boot loader is activated at mains power on then they can sort out the problem with a revised boot loader.

This issue requires a change to the mechanism that looks after the STB during standby ("micom"), also the boot loader in order to recognise this is a recovery from a power failure state and the STB application in order to do the business of checking everything is OK and then go back to sleep quickly. Every change has implications and this is a change on three levels. There are easy ways to do things and then there is the right way to do things any change should be done the right way.

Can these changes be made to the current Foxsat HDR, and if so will they?

The last thing you mention about the STB application checking everything is OK - I assume one of things would be checking for disc corruption. At the moment when the unit is on (possibly recording) and there is a power cut, when the power is restored the unit comes back on in its fully powered up state so surely the parts of the STB application which check everything is OK should already be implemented as they would be needed under this scenario? Or does the HDR just powerup and it is just pure luck whether the HDR recovers scuccessfully after the power cut?

All the code to do all the functionality needed is already there - apart from the check to go back into standby if was woken up after a power cut (and as I have pointed out previously it is less a disaster if it stays on but with the the correct time than if it stays in standby without a scooby). It is just a question of leveraging it.

There should have been an option to automatically put the box into standby if there has been no user input for, say, 5 (or, better, some configurable number) of hours. After an on screen warning, of course.

Agreed and surely that check is simply to check to see if the date/time is in the region of the incorrect default value and then grab the correct date/time (plus EPG data?) and sleep.

It does need fixing but at the same time I have never suffered because of it due to a power cut as they happen so infrequently. That said, it is a PVR and that is how a PVR should operate otherwise it risks being branded unfit for purpose.

I'm optimistic that it can and will be fixed without too much trouble (no reason - just optimistic) and whatever others say Humax are very active in listening to customers concerns and actually responding to them which is a lot better than many other companies out there...

Yes, the fact that they've sat on the bug for 18 months should not be taken as an indicator that they're not aware of the importance of the issue.