Did anyone watch Kate Walsh on Live from studio five yesterday, when asked should there be another Junior Apprentice she said I think not. From what I could gather her main reason is that young people would not be able to handle all the flak that comes when the show finishes.

I think she's got a point and I'd saddened by the nasty threads and posts on this forum about Zoe who is still a child.

No, didn't see it, but then I don't watch that show except when paid or tortured

Bit rich coming from one of the candidates that really really made use of the media and resulting buzz. But she has a point, and it doesn't sound like she's making it because the juniors rather showed up the adults.

Like you I'm astonished by a lot of the reaction and not all from anonymous public either It seems far far more vicious that most of the comments about the adult candidates. And I genuinely can't see how hardly any of it is warrented. I know the PR agency for the Apprentice does use DS, twitter, etc to troll. Their client is the program afterall. Which doesn't excuse nasty methods.

Zoe and Rhys seem to be getting the worst of it. And they can't shut that out esp. at school where teenagers are cruel.

I enjoyed the show, but I think Kate has a good point. Some of the comments, especially about Zoe, have really been bad. I'm not talking about DS so much, although obviously there have been very critical remarks, but on twitter and facebook there's been far nastier comments, including people wishing death on Zoe in quite unpleasantly detailed ways.

I notice that she's now selling her vintage clothes online rather than on a market stall. That might be simply to gain access to a bigger market, but I can't help wondering if she's had trouble since the series started screening. I hope not.

Strictly speaking, she's not really a child. Legally, she could leave home if she wanted to, have sex, have a baby. She could also get married, if her parents gave their permission. If she can make these life changing decisions, she's not a child. The fact is that we are overly sentimental about young people, and even when they are 18, they are still overprotected by their parents. Many of the very successful entrepreneurs today started out very early, and often as a direct result of hardship, or having to support family.

True not a child, but a young person. And yes, there are some very tough 16-17 year olds about. Many of them are well known to the police and social services. I would really doubt if those on the JA had had the sort of early experiences you describe.

The point, which has been raised before on this forum, is the sheer mindless viciousness of anonymous attack. The danger being that it will fuel bullying in real life. They are still at school and later uni. These are social places. Adults have more privacy and can chose who they mix with.

And yes, they will have been counselled beforehand about what to expect. However the nature of many comments is I think worse than I have ever seen directed against those on the TA. I don't watch BB or any of those bear pit shows btw, so don't know how they are treated.

Finally, yes hardship has created many businesses. But by their very nature of being successful enough to be noticed means they are much older. They started in a very different world, with different attitudes and behaviour. The internet, forums, mobiles, twitter, cheap tactic tabloids etc were not around then. Neither Facebook or twitter were around when TA started either. Difficult to avoid now, and both perfect for peer pressure

I think that Zoe has the chutzpah to deal with the flak to be perfectly honest. I also don't think we should be overly bothered about what happens to people who put themselves up for "reality" TV shows. Surely after 10 years of sniping and hatred over Big Brother and other "reality" shows, they'd understand they're going to be "talked about" at the very least.

There's 'talked about' and 'talked about like this'. The acid test is would anyone else like to be talked about like this? Or about any member of your family, like your children? Because you went on telly is the only reason? I really don't understand why that is used as an excuse.

I'm old enough to remember something called 'The Living Soap' one of the first reality shows in the UK during the mid 90's. Set in Manchester with students. Made a huge mistake of filming and showing on TV at the same time. That some students or locals were jealous began to be evident. Particularly against the louder, more colourful ones. Culminated in a brick through the window. The show was pulled. Since then all reality shows have been either in isolation (BB) or filmed earlier (TA). Maybe so that any trouble doesn't interupt filming? Or so they can wash their hands afterwards?

The thing is that people may be aware that reality TV show contestants get discussed, sometimes harshly, but you probably don't know what that will really be like until it happens. Plus you may not know everything about what's involved - you might be aware that you might get slagged off on the internet and feel you can cope with that, but then might be surprised to find it overflows into real-life encounters with people.

Also, of course, people may have an image of themselves which is very different from how they actually seem to others. I remember Claire from Series 4 of The Apprentice said that when she watched the series she was horrified by how obnoxious she was. Remember Robert Burns' remark about "seeing ourselves as others see us"? Many contestants may expect that the public will see them as the likeable person they feel themselves to be, only to find that in fact the public see them in a far less flattering light.

As for Zoe's chutzpah, I think it's skin-deep. You could often see her face caught momentarily with a vulnerable look on the show. I should think she's someone who would want to put on a bit of front that what's said about her doesn't bother her, but that doesn't mean that's how she feels inside.

Sadly I think Kate has a very good point, amply proved by the sort of idiots who set up facebook hate pages.
Wether Zoe can handle it or not isn't really the point, will next year's hate figure cope as well?

Are you being serious ?

I would never condone people getting the viscious and nasty stuff that people get whethere they are children or adults. However I do think the she's a "child" can't be used as an defence.
She isn't trying to be her age. She wants to be seen as an adult, acts like an adult above her years etc. If that is how she wants to be and percieved as then why shouldn't she be treated as an adult in a negative way as well as a positive way?
How many times has that same line been used when someone young has commited a crime even serious ones? They are young or a kid and didn't know what they were doing blah blah. That's cobblers! A 14 year old knows stealing is wrong. They know mugging is wrong.

I found Zoe quite diffcult to like on the show and think I would struggle too in real life if she is like that, but I admire her for getting off her backside and having a bit of ambition to do something with her life.

What I do wonder is if there is more "poor Zoe" because she is a girl. Zoe is 16. When they first appeared and for most of their time on X Factor Jedward were just a year older at 17. You're only looking at about 12 months difference in age and that is nothing. Whilst Zoe may have got some nasty comments, on a scale measurement she got nothing compared to them. Where were all the "they're just kids, it's wrong" comments for them? They're boys/guys they can take it, sod them!
The first person fired was Jordan De Courcy also aged 16, who came across as equally determined, overly confident and a bit unlikeable Had he and Zoe swapped places and he was in until the final I wonder if he would have got the "he's still a child" or not?

Are you forgetting the programme was called Junior Apprentice because it had young people still at school at the start of their career lifes. Lord Sugar recognised that fact in how he dealt with them. Posts like yours just saddens me that there are people unable to make any allowance for young people who have not yet fully developed in all aspects.

It isn't just Zoe that's had nasty comments, Rhys, Jordan and to a lesser extent Hannah have also been subjected to these.
No matter how badly the public react to anyone on the adult Apprentice, in real life they are unlikely to be bullied as few adults would say anything to their faces. Teenagers at school are quite another matter. The adults have Your Fired to show another side to them. They can also say 'well that's how it was edited' and most people know this. A lot of teenagers don't. There's been people posting on here who thought that Rhys twitter was real So there's bound to be others

If they can't handle it they shouldn't apply, in business you've just got to deal with it, they can't expect everyone to love them.

I think you're right that Zoe wouldn't want to be seen as a child, but it's not really the point. Whether Zoe wants to be seen as or tries to act like an adult is immaterial to the question of whether she actually is one or not.


Also not the point. If Jedward got the same kind of comments as Zoe did or worse, it makes that wrong, not the comments on Zoe right.

The bottom line is decided not by age, gender or appearing on TV, if you can't have any decent respect for another person, what does that say about you?