T-Mobile/Orange Roaming.

kev · 02-01-2011, 10:12

Quote:

So will this work the other way as well? Will Orange/T-mo be able to use the 3 transmitters aswell?

This 97% coverage must just be in England as my phone shows "No service" more times than enough in NI, Vodafone and O2 always have at least 1 bar anywhere you go

T-Mobile and Three's 3G networks are pretty much identical (I believe there are a few sites in some areas with only one network on but they are for capacity reasons and not coverage) so that already works.

Three don't have there own GSM network, but instead use Orange's GSM network.

Therefore at present the best place to be is on T-Mobile where you get

1) The T-Mobile GSM network (as do Orange customers)
2) The Orange GSM network (as do Orange and Three customers)
3) The combined T-Mobile/Three 3G network (along with Three customers)

All you are missing at the moment is the Orange 3G network.

Appleseed · 02-01-2011, 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by kev

T-Mobile and Three's 3G networks are pretty much identical (I believe there are a few sites in some areas with only one network on but they are for capacity reasons and not coverage) so that already works.

Three don't have there own GSM network, but instead use Orange's GSM network.

Therefore at present the best place to be is on T-Mobile where you get

1) The T-Mobile GSM network (as do Orange customers)
2) The Orange GSM network (as do Orange and Three customers)
3) The combined T-Mobile/Three 3G network (along with Three customers)

All you are missing at the moment is the Orange 3G network.

This is true, but not for too much longer (in certain areas at least)
'3' are removing the fallback to Orange GSM in certain areas, with, I imagine, the view to removing it completely.

jonmorris · 02-01-2011, 16:39

There won't be much need for a 2G fallback in the future (not that I can guess when that future will be, as in months or years), hopefully, GSM will finally get turned off (like analogue) and the spectrum re-allocated.

Admittedly, the chipsets in modern phones do mean there's no real space saving now, as there would have been if 3G-only handsets had been allowed, but if 2G was to go - existing 2G only sites (and there are still many) would have to be upgraded and we'd all benefit from the higher speeds (and security).

As for coverage, 97% coverage does mean 3% of no coverage and it stands to reason that it will be very rural areas. It will never reach 100% (unless required by law) and all networks go for population, which does mean some people will miss out. That's why I believe there was a subsidy/grant to encourage site sharing with Vodafone/Cellnet for Scotland - long before site sharing was considered as sound business sense later on for the rest of the country.

SilentLoner · 02-01-2011, 19:01

The problem with 3G now is building penetration. Will three pair up with Vodafone like they did in aus?

Lummo · 02-01-2011, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentLoner

The problem with 3G now is building penetration. Will three pair up with Vodafone like they did in aus?

I wouldn't think so. It's more likely 3 would much rather stay in the Everything Everywhere deal so it can use the 3G from both T-Mobile and Orange, and the remaining 2G it uses is also Orange.

I think 3G building penetration will be more of a problem for O2 and Vodafone.

Everything Everywhere will have the advantage of having many Orange, T-Mobile and 3 masts in built-up cities.

SilentLoner · 02-01-2011, 19:56

True but alot of people don't live in big cities.

Lummo · 02-01-2011, 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentLoner

True but alot of people don't live in big cities.

Yea i suppose, but i do think all the networks are going to neglect the rural areas in 3G coverage unfortunately, and even more so with 4G once that is released.

kev · 02-01-2011, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentLoner

The problem with 3G now is building penetration. Will three pair up with Vodafone like they did in aus?

The operators are trying to get permission to operate 3G in the GSM 900 and 1800 bands which will offer better in building penetration, the Digital Dividend being suitable for the same.

With Ofcoms' stalling perhaps we will end up with "4G" networks being in the extended 900 and 1800 bands, leaving 4G where it is.

SilentLoner · 02-01-2011, 23:43

That would be good

coolesticeking · 03-01-2011, 08:41

Don't forget that it's "population" coverage and not 97% of the UK land... 97% of the whole UK would be very good indeed!

SilentLoner · 03-01-2011, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolesticeking

Don't forget that it's "population" coverage and not 97% of the UK land... 97% of the whole UK would be very good indeed!

I definitely think 2g is needed for the foreseeable future.

citylink_uk · 04-01-2011, 18:51

I've also read that operators want Ofcom to increase their limits on power output of 3G base stations, possibly to help in-building penetration. It would probably lead to handsets maxing out their TX power for a reliable uplink.

Good: for functionality
Bad: for battery life

The EU regulators should have got their act together sooner to permit 3G in the 900 band, thus allowing operators to roll out their 3G coverage faster. I suppose the current 900 GSM operators might have been dragging their heels about sharing out 'their band'.

Anyway, thanks to 3 Three and their axing of GSM roaming, I've now got no in-building coverage at all. Apparently i'm served 'well' enough not to need it, despite there being only weak 3G outdoor coverage throughout the whole village. That's progress for you....

Daveoc64 · 05-01-2011, 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by citylink_uk

Anyway, thanks to 3 Three and their axing of GSM roaming, I've now got no in-building coverage at all. Apparently i'm served 'well' enough not to need it, despite there being only weak 3G outdoor coverage throughout the whole village. That's progress for you....

This makes me glad I'm not on Three.

I've noticed that 2G doesn't seem to work here any more, leaving no 3G in some parts of the house.

mjdj1689 · 05-01-2011, 23:59

Does anyone know when they join up and you dont have to wait to you nearly loose the signal to go to the other network ?

And when we get 3g as well and when do 3 join to ?

Lummo · 06-01-2011, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjdj1689

Does anyone know when they join up and you dont have to wait to you nearly loose the signal to go to the other network ?

And when we get 3g as well and when do 3 join to ?

Around March time i believe

SkyPaulusPlus · 06-01-2011, 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon41

Same here in sandhurst, Blackberry full signal on both and T-mobile is faster

because of all the data usage the orange 3g is hammered and they are hoping that when tyhe 3g is merged it should ease the hit on the 3g network, but add pressure of the t mobile obviosly.

now i tested a orange dongle with 3g priority connected to hsdpa within 20 meters of a massive orange 3g site and got slow speeds, yet my o2 mobile using basic consumer hsdpa access tethered to my laptop connecting to a mast further away was way faster, i dont think the orange network can handle data atm, whereas o2 for example can, hopefully the 3g merge will spread the load

Lummo · 06-01-2011, 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyPaulusPlus

because of all the data usage the orange 3g is hammered and they are hoping that when tyhe 3g is merged it should ease the hit on the 3g network, but add pressure of the t mobile obviosly.

now i tested a orange dongle with 3g priority connected to hsdpa within 20 meters of a massive orange 3g site and got slow speeds, yet my o2 mobile using basic consumer hsdpa access tethered to my laptop connecting to a mast further away was way faster, i dont think the orange network can handle data atm, whereas o2 for example can, hopefully the 3g merge will spread the load

I used to be Orange and i agree, the speeds can be quite low and very inconsistent.

My new T-Mobile iPhone is able to reach much higher speeds and is very consistent, rarely dropping below 1.5mb at lowest in speedtests.

I hope that when they are merged, it won't affect T-Mobile too much and it should help having 3's powerful 3G network aswell hopefully.

SkyPaulusPlus · 06-01-2011, 01:57

key words:

should
expected
may
hope

i was shocked at how slow the orange connection was, and so close to one of the largest orange 3g(if not the largest) masts. yet o2 without the qos of mobile broadband was way faster

The Lord Lucan · 06-01-2011, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lummo

I used to be Orange and i agree, the speeds can be quite low and very inconsistent.

My new T-Mobile iPhone is able to reach much higher speeds and is very consistent, rarely dropping below 1.5mb at lowest in speedtests.

I hope that when they are merged, it won't affect T-Mobile too much and it should help having 3's powerful 3G network aswell hopefully.

The merging will not affect speeds as the separate networks will use separate back-hauls etc... Orange will use their own, T-Mobile use their own etc etc...

I've never had an issue with Orange as i normally get 1.8 down in most cities... Contract iPhone tho.

Lummo · 06-01-2011, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan

The merging will not affect speeds as the separate networks will use separate back-hauls etc... Orange will use their own, T-Mobile use their own etc etc...

I've never had an issue with Orange as i normally get 1.8 down in most cities... Contract iPhone tho.

I do think my iPhone that I had then, did have a few issues. And I think that may have contributed to my speed fluctuations

02-01-2011, 10:12	#301
kev Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: South Notts (Waltham TV TX) Posts: 20,200	Quote: Originally Posted by dave81uk So will this work the other way as well? Will Orange/T-mo be able to use the 3 transmitters aswell? This 97% coverage must just be in England as my phone shows "No service" more times than enough in NI, Vodafone and O2 always have at least 1 bar anywhere you go T-Mobile and Three's 3G networks are pretty much identical (I believe there are a few sites in some areas with only one network on but they are for capacity reasons and not coverage) so that already works. Three don't have there own GSM network, but instead use Orange's GSM network. Therefore at present the best place to be is on T-Mobile where you get 1) The T-Mobile GSM network (as do Orange customers) 2) The Orange GSM network (as do Orange and Three customers) 3) The combined T-Mobile/Three 3G network (along with Three customers) All you are missing at the moment is the Orange 3G network.

02-01-2011, 10:35	#302
Appleseed Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3,673	Quote: Originally Posted by kev T-Mobile and Three's 3G networks are pretty much identical (I believe there are a few sites in some areas with only one network on but they are for capacity reasons and not coverage) so that already works. Three don't have there own GSM network, but instead use Orange's GSM network. Therefore at present the best place to be is on T-Mobile where you get 1) The T-Mobile GSM network (as do Orange customers) 2) The Orange GSM network (as do Orange and Three customers) 3) The combined T-Mobile/Three 3G network (along with Three customers) All you are missing at the moment is the Orange 3G network. This is true, but not for too much longer (in certain areas at least) '3' are removing the fallback to Orange GSM in certain areas, with, I imagine, the view to removing it completely.

02-01-2011, 16:39	#303
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	There won't be much need for a 2G fallback in the future (not that I can guess when that future will be, as in months or years), hopefully, GSM will finally get turned off (like analogue) and the spectrum re-allocated. Admittedly, the chipsets in modern phones do mean there's no real space saving now, as there would have been if 3G-only handsets had been allowed, but if 2G was to go - existing 2G only sites (and there are still many) would have to be upgraded and we'd all benefit from the higher speeds (and security). As for coverage, 97% coverage does mean 3% of no coverage and it stands to reason that it will be very rural areas. It will never reach 100% (unless required by law) and all networks go for population, which does mean some people will miss out. That's why I believe there was a subsidy/grant to encourage site sharing with Vodafone/Cellnet for Scotland - long before site sharing was considered as sound business sense later on for the rest of the country.

02-01-2011, 19:01	#304
SilentLoner Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Aylesbury Posts: 3,995	The problem with 3G now is building penetration. Will three pair up with Vodafone like they did in aus?

02-01-2011, 19:53	#305
Lummo Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 6,737	Quote: Originally Posted by SilentLoner The problem with 3G now is building penetration. Will three pair up with Vodafone like they did in aus? I wouldn't think so. It's more likely 3 would much rather stay in the Everything Everywhere deal so it can use the 3G from both T-Mobile and Orange, and the remaining 2G it uses is also Orange. I think 3G building penetration will be more of a problem for O2 and Vodafone. Everything Everywhere will have the advantage of having many Orange, T-Mobile and 3 masts in built-up cities.

02-01-2011, 19:56	#306
SilentLoner Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Aylesbury Posts: 3,995	True but alot of people don't live in big cities.

02-01-2011, 20:05	#307
Lummo Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 6,737	Quote: Originally Posted by SilentLoner True but alot of people don't live in big cities. Yea i suppose, but i do think all the networks are going to neglect the rural areas in 3G coverage unfortunately, and even more so with 4G once that is released.

02-01-2011, 20:15	#308
kev Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: South Notts (Waltham TV TX) Posts: 20,200	Quote: Originally Posted by SilentLoner The problem with 3G now is building penetration. Will three pair up with Vodafone like they did in aus? The operators are trying to get permission to operate 3G in the GSM 900 and 1800 bands which will offer better in building penetration, the Digital Dividend being suitable for the same. With Ofcoms' stalling perhaps we will end up with "4G" networks being in the extended 900 and 1800 bands, leaving 4G where it is.

02-01-2011, 23:43	#309
SilentLoner Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Aylesbury Posts: 3,995	That would be good

03-01-2011, 08:41	#310
coolesticeking Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Walsall, West Midlands Posts: 138	Don't forget that it's "population" coverage and not 97% of the UK land... 97% of the whole UK would be very good indeed!

03-01-2011, 20:52	#311
SilentLoner Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Aylesbury Posts: 3,995	Quote: Originally Posted by coolesticeking Don't forget that it's "population" coverage and not 97% of the UK land... 97% of the whole UK would be very good indeed! I definitely think 2g is needed for the foreseeable future.

04-01-2011, 18:51	#312
citylink_uk Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 82	I've also read that operators want Ofcom to increase their limits on power output of 3G base stations, possibly to help in-building penetration. It would probably lead to handsets maxing out their TX power for a reliable uplink. Good: for functionality Bad: for battery life The EU regulators should have got their act together sooner to permit 3G in the 900 band, thus allowing operators to roll out their 3G coverage faster. I suppose the current 900 GSM operators might have been dragging their heels about sharing out 'their band'. Anyway, thanks to 3 Three and their axing of GSM roaming, I've now got no in-building coverage at all. Apparently i'm served 'well' enough not to need it, despite there being only weak 3G outdoor coverage throughout the whole village. That's progress for you....

05-01-2011, 02:46	#313
Daveoc64 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol (BBC1 West) Posts: 15,143	Quote: Originally Posted by citylink_uk Anyway, thanks to 3 Three and their axing of GSM roaming, I've now got no in-building coverage at all. Apparently i'm served 'well' enough not to need it, despite there being only weak 3G outdoor coverage throughout the whole village. That's progress for you.... This makes me glad I'm not on Three. I've noticed that 2G doesn't seem to work here any more, leaving no 3G in some parts of the house.

05-01-2011, 23:59	#314
mjdj1689 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Cheshire Posts: 2,470	Does anyone know when they join up and you dont have to wait to you nearly loose the signal to go to the other network ? And when we get 3g as well and when do 3 join to ?

06-01-2011, 00:26	#315
Lummo Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 6,737	Quote: Originally Posted by mjdj1689 Does anyone know when they join up and you dont have to wait to you nearly loose the signal to go to the other network ? And when we get 3g as well and when do 3 join to ? Around March time i believe

06-01-2011, 01:05	#316
SkyPaulusPlus Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: England Posts: 3,822	Quote: Originally Posted by jon41 Same here in sandhurst, Blackberry full signal on both and T-mobile is faster because of all the data usage the orange 3g is hammered and they are hoping that when tyhe 3g is merged it should ease the hit on the 3g network, but add pressure of the t mobile obviosly. now i tested a orange dongle with 3g priority connected to hsdpa within 20 meters of a massive orange 3g site and got slow speeds, yet my o2 mobile using basic consumer hsdpa access tethered to my laptop connecting to a mast further away was way faster, i dont think the orange network can handle data atm, whereas o2 for example can, hopefully the 3g merge will spread the load

06-01-2011, 01:22	#317
Lummo Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 6,737	Quote: Originally Posted by SkyPaulusPlus because of all the data usage the orange 3g is hammered and they are hoping that when tyhe 3g is merged it should ease the hit on the 3g network, but add pressure of the t mobile obviosly. now i tested a orange dongle with 3g priority connected to hsdpa within 20 meters of a massive orange 3g site and got slow speeds, yet my o2 mobile using basic consumer hsdpa access tethered to my laptop connecting to a mast further away was way faster, i dont think the orange network can handle data atm, whereas o2 for example can, hopefully the 3g merge will spread the load I used to be Orange and i agree, the speeds can be quite low and very inconsistent. My new T-Mobile iPhone is able to reach much higher speeds and is very consistent, rarely dropping below 1.5mb at lowest in speedtests. I hope that when they are merged, it won't affect T-Mobile too much and it should help having 3's powerful 3G network aswell hopefully.

06-01-2011, 01:57	#318
SkyPaulusPlus Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: England Posts: 3,822	key words: should expected may hope i was shocked at how slow the orange connection was, and so close to one of the largest orange 3g(if not the largest) masts. yet o2 without the qos of mobile broadband was way faster

06-01-2011, 17:25	#319
The Lord Lucan Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 4,966	Quote: Originally Posted by Lummo I used to be Orange and i agree, the speeds can be quite low and very inconsistent. My new T-Mobile iPhone is able to reach much higher speeds and is very consistent, rarely dropping below 1.5mb at lowest in speedtests. I hope that when they are merged, it won't affect T-Mobile too much and it should help having 3's powerful 3G network aswell hopefully. The merging will not affect speeds as the separate networks will use separate back-hauls etc... Orange will use their own, T-Mobile use their own etc etc... I've never had an issue with Orange as i normally get 1.8 down in most cities... Contract iPhone tho.

06-01-2011, 18:27	#320
Lummo Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 6,737	Quote: Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan The merging will not affect speeds as the separate networks will use separate back-hauls etc... Orange will use their own, T-Mobile use their own etc etc... I've never had an issue with Orange as i normally get 1.8 down in most cities... Contract iPhone tho. I do think my iPhone that I had then, did have a few issues. And I think that may have contributed to my speed fluctuations

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T-Mobile/Orange Roaming.