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Rethink series structure?
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Talma
18-06-2010
Originally Posted by sqwidge1978:
“
Also i belive half hour episodes would be too short for todays audience whou would seem to preffer hour episodes.”

I'm grateful for any Who in any format, but does today's audience (which includes those of us able to deal with half hour episodes if necessary) really prefer hour long or is that what they're given now?

Originally Posted by sebbie3000:
“That's how it was before it disappeared. Television watching habits have changed. It wouldn't work in this day-and-age.

Besides, the format it's in appeals to kids (I'm not saying it's a kids show, but to have it classed as family viewing the kids need to be interested). With the style of other kids shows being the same, I doubt it would change any time soon. It's the format they have been brought up on, so it will stay that way.”

I was brought up with half hours, so I'd be fine. Besides, Sarah Jane seems to manage it extremely well, and countless other children's series actually made by CBBC and similar, so obviously they are well able to cope with it. You can get a lot in half an hour, see Sarah Jane again.

Originally Posted by Corwin:
“Apparently the idea of splitting the series in two was considered by the BBC this year.

If they did go that route in future you could end up with 2 seperate story arcs per year.”

Why have story arcs at all, though? That's the way it's gone the last 5 years, but if we had several stand-alone adventures they'd be just as much fun and have a lot of scope, in fact more as they don't have to have some sort of connection with the others. Like they used to in fact.
Adam Kelleher
18-06-2010
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“I'm more concerned by the rather repetitive structure of the series', in particular the first few episodes. Almost every series since 2005 has begun with a story set on contemporary Earth, then in the next few weeks had one space based story, one historical, then a two parter; two filler episodes, then a two parter (usually the series' 'dar' story); another filler episode (usually the Doctor lite story), then a story that leads in to a two part finale. The structure never varies much, though the position of the token historical sometimes shifts back or forward an episode. Can't we have a bit more variety? Maybe start with a two parter for a change! Just something different!”

I agree with you about having more variety within the series but I don't understand what you mean by "filler" episodes. "Filler" is normally used as a derogatory term, are you suggesting that just because a story isn't a 2 parter or part of the overall arc it is somehow less important?
Adam Kelleher
18-06-2010
Originally Posted by daveyboy7472:
“I agree with the above posts in that it'd be nice to have a different structure within the series itself. Think 45 mins is just about right. It is the standard time for series like Who. Merlin is the same as was Robin Hood. Like the idea the finales are longer. That is a good thing.”

It certainly wasn't a good thing for "Last of the Timelords". That would have been better if it had been 60 minutes shorter. More does not equate to better.
Adam Kelleher
18-06-2010
Originally Posted by asto47:
“
I don't want to see DW as a soap, or on all year round, but I think for it to only be on TV for 25% of the year as one of the BBC's biggest brands is crazy. I also think it needs to be on at a fixed time, and not simply moved around the schedule on the basis that people will watch it whenever it turns up. My overall impression has been that this series has been marketed, once it started, pretty poorly, which is a shame.”

But being on 25% of the year (and even having a year of just specials) does help to keep the series fresh. The worst thing would be for people to get bored with Doctor Who and start switching off. Look at the World Cup - that's only on once every 4 years!
Adam Kelleher
18-06-2010
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“And yet those casual Saturday teatime viewers had no difficulty in following a story for six, eight or even twelve weeks forty years ago. Have our attention spans really become so short?”

Yes they have.
Adam Kelleher
18-06-2010
Originally Posted by cuttlefishspike:
“I think the structure is fine but I'd love for it to move back to the Autumn.”

100% agree!
Adam Kelleher
18-06-2010
Originally Posted by Ian Levine:
“Yes I am THE Ian Levine.”

I'd just like to say a massive thank you for all the work you've done on recovering lost episodes.
Adam Kelleher
18-06-2010
Originally Posted by nebogipfel:
“Rightio. Thanks for the rescue of the episodes and all! Legend. (It's possible I'm not the first to say that.)

I remember being so excited about being able to buy The Daleks on VHS back in the [long time ago] and my flatmate and I watched one episode per week at teatime on Saturday. Beans on toast after. ”

21 years ago that was released (around this time of year as well). I'm sure also the first B&W VHS release. These days we take the DVDs for granted but it was absolutely amazing and fantastic at the time to see the first Dalek story again.
tingramretro
18-06-2010
Originally Posted by Adam Kelleher:
“I agree with you about having more variety within the series but I don't understand what you mean by "filler" episodes. "Filler" is normally used as a derogatory term, are you suggesting that just because a story isn't a 2 parter or part of the overall arc it is somehow less important?”

No, probably that was the wrong word to use-what I mean is, standalone episodes which rarely have an obvious connection to the now apparently compulsory story arc and which are frequently a bit lightweight.
Adam Kelleher
18-06-2010
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“No, probably that was the wrong word to use-what I mean is, standalone episodes which rarely have an obvious connection to the now apparently compulsory story arc and which are frequently a bit lightweight.”

Oh, OK - thanks for clarifying.
TEDR
18-06-2010
Originally Posted by Adam Kelleher:
“I'd just like to say a massive thank you for all the work you've done on recovering lost episodes.”

Ditto from me. Hope you have to award that Dalek one day.
CheeseyDude1337
18-06-2010
We need 6 Four-Parters in a series, with the last one a 5 parter. And make them 20 minutes each.
daveyboy7472
18-06-2010
Originally Posted by Adam Kelleher:
“It certainly wasn't a good thing for "Last of the Timelords". That would have been better if it had been 60 minutes shorter. More does not equate to better.”

I didn't think that particular episode was affected by being longer for me. However, all The Specials suffered from being too long and the 2nd Episode of The End Of Time definitely did. It sagged badly in the middle I thought.
Talma
18-06-2010
Originally Posted by Adam Kelleher:
“I'd just like to say a massive thank you for all the work you've done on recovering lost episodes.”

So would I.
wizzywick
18-06-2010
Originally Posted by sebbie3000:
“It wouldn't draw the kids as much - they have been brought up on the current format of television, changing that dramatically (which it would be for them) would lessen their interest.

But I personally think it's more to do with the latter myself, too.



I second this! I'd love a two-parter starter. That could be feasible for the next series, as we have the same Doc/companion for the first time next year. Let's start the campaign...”

A two parter starter
A poet yet didn't know it!
wizzywick
18-06-2010
For a bit of variety, and to keep the show fresh and to maintain anticipation, I think the series should be shown like this:

Year 1: 15 episodes:

Ep 1 & 2: Two part opener
Ep 3: Standalone episode
Ep 4: Standalone episode leading into two parter
Ep 5 & 6: Two parter set on another planet
Ep 7: Doctor lite episode
Ep 8: Standalone episode
Ep 9 &10 Two parter set in a historical era on earth
Ep 11: companion lite episode
Ep 12: Obligatory dalek episode
Ep 13, 14 & 15: Three part series finale

NO CHRISTMAS SPECIAL

Year 2: 4 Special Episodes

Ep 1: Easter Special
Ep 2: Summer Special (August Bank Holiday)
Ep 3: Autumn Special (halloween or early November)
Ep 4: Christmas special

[b]Year 3: 15 Episodes[/B
As year one but maybe in a different episode layout.

NO CHRISTMAS SPECIAL

Year 4: Special Episodes

As year 2.


This would just give the show continued momentum.
tingramretro
18-06-2010
Originally Posted by Adam Kelleher:
“21 years ago that was released (around this time of year as well). I'm sure also the first B&W VHS release. These days we take the DVDs for granted but it was absolutely amazing and fantastic at the time to see the first Dalek story again.”

The first black & white VHS release was the edited together version of The Seeds of Death. The Daleks was the second, IIRC. And also the first two tape release.
WLB
19-06-2010
To be honest, i think we are all missing why the series is currently the format it is, international sales.

Its 45 minutes, as this will equal an hour show in most countries (when ads are taken into consideration) , so makes it more marketable and sellable to Australia, USA and Europe. Look at most countries, and outside of the Soaps, dramas are 60 minutes. Most channels around the world divide very heavily between sit coms being 30 minutes long, dramas an hour.

As for the length of the season, every country is now used to American lengths (approx 22 episodes) of series. Due to the format and smaller main cast of Dr Who, it would really suffer if 22 episodes were done. The UK has also found it very hard to sell 8 part series abroad, as they just dont fit in with the tv schedules in most countries. The 13/14 episode basis of a series works alot better. American cable stations have had a number of world wide successes that have been this length, it also fits in very well with stations that would are used to american programmes being axed after the first 13 episodes, and just generally fits in better with most countries tv seasons (especially the main autumn block).

Now before any one says this is a BBC drama that should be made for the British audience, it is. Why shouldnt the BBC have an eye on selling a quality product abroad, especially at a time when drama budgets are feeling the strain. AT the end of the day i think people would much prefer the BBC kept an eye on the international tv market for opportunities rather than paying more for there tv licence.
Face Of Jack
19-06-2010
It wouldn't work today, let's be honest. The 45minute-1hour format works much better,,, and it's better for over-seas sales as well.
OK, the original series did ok in its little dinky little 24 minute form - but that was then! Who would bother to hastily get to the TV every Saturday night for half an hour nowadays?
Remember in 'those' days - there was only two chanells to watch (don't count BBC 2 ...it was too high brow!)
tingramretro
19-06-2010
Originally Posted by Face Of Jack:
“It wouldn't work today, let's be honest. The 45minute-1hour format works much better,,, and it's better for over-seas sales as well.
OK, the original series did ok in its little dinky little 24 minute form - but that was then! Who would bother to hastily get to the TV every Saturday night for half an hour nowadays?
Remember in 'those' days - there was only two chanells to watch (don't count BBC 2 ...it was too high brow!)”

I'm not sure what the length of the episode has to do with there being only two channels? And in any case, there weren't, for a fair bit of the shows run. BBC2 did indeed have an audience, despite being 'highbrow', and Channel 4 was launched in 1982.
Adam Kelleher
19-06-2010
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“The first black & white VHS release was the edited together version of The Seeds of Death. The Daleks was the second, IIRC. And also the first two tape release.”

Thanks for that. Was The Daleks also the first episodic release?
sonic157
19-06-2010
Originally Posted by WLB:
“To be honest, i think we are all missing why the series is currently the format it is, international sales.

Its 45 minutes, as this will equal an hour show in most countries (when ads are taken into consideration) , so makes it more marketable and sellable to Australia, USA and Europe. Look at most countries, and outside of the Soaps, dramas are 60 minutes. Most channels around the world divide very heavily between sit coms being 30 minutes long, dramas an hour.

As for the length of the season, every country is now used to American lengths (approx 22 episodes) of series. Due to the format and smaller main cast of Dr Who, it would really suffer if 22 episodes were done. The UK has also found it very hard to sell 8 part series abroad, as they just dont fit in with the tv schedules in most countries. The 13/14 episode basis of a series works alot better. American cable stations have had a number of world wide successes that have been this length, it also fits in very well with stations that would are used to american programmes being axed after the first 13 episodes, and just generally fits in better with most countries tv seasons (especially the main autumn block).

Now before any one says this is a BBC drama that should be made for the British audience, it is. Why shouldnt the BBC have an eye on selling a quality product abroad, especially at a time when drama budgets are feeling the strain. AT the end of the day i think people would much prefer the BBC kept an eye on the international tv market for opportunities rather than paying more for there tv licence.”

I said in an earlier post that I'd have liked some of the episodes to have been 55 minutes like TEH, apart from the 2 parters. This wouldn't leave sufficient time for adverts on foreign channels. One of the reasons I prefer BBC to most other channels is the lack of adverts! I accept that the world being as it is, this has to be factored in. Dr Who is watched in many countries around the world and it would be short sighted to do anything to put this at risk. I'm willing to pay to be advert free but not everyone shares this view.

So, how about a 55 minute opener, followed by six 45 minute two parters?
tingramretro
19-06-2010
Originally Posted by Adam Kelleher:
“Thanks for that. Was The Daleks also the first episodic release?”

I think it was, I couldn't swear to it without checking.
CD93
19-06-2010
Originally Posted by wizzywick:
“For a bit of variety, and to keep the show fresh and to maintain anticipation, I think the series should be shown like this:

Year 1: 15 episodes:

Ep 1 & 2: Two part opener
Ep 3: Standalone episode
Ep 4: Standalone episode leading into two parter
Ep 5 & 6: Two parter set on another planet
Ep 7: Doctor lite episode
Ep 8: Standalone episode
Ep 9 &10 Two parter set in a historical era on earth
Ep 11: companion lite episode
Ep 12: Obligatory dalek episode
Ep 13, 14 & 15: Three part series finale

NO CHRISTMAS SPECIAL

Year 2: 4 Special Episodes

Ep 1: Easter Special
Ep 2: Summer Special (August Bank Holiday)
Ep 3: Autumn Special (halloween or early November)
Ep 4: Christmas special

[b]Year 3: 15 Episodes[/B
As year one but maybe in a different episode layout.

NO CHRISTMAS SPECIAL

Year 4: Special Episodes

As year 2.


This would just give the show continued momentum.”

Hell to the no.

Sorry, a year of "specials" as the norm could be disasterous.
Adam Kelleher
19-06-2010
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“I think it was, I couldn't swear to it without checking.”

Thanks. I think it was too.
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