Subwoofer Setting

Looking at the specs, this matched lot should cross-over at 95hz - so the 50hz crossover is a little optomistic. Set it at 100hz and they should match nicely.

Sub xover needs to be on full (150Hz), the xover on the amp will be controling the xover.

If you set the sub xover to the same setting as the amp xover the two will interfere.

Better still, if the sub has the option to switch the internal xover off, switch it off.

RobAnt · 23-06-2010, 19:14

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I'll go through the sub settings first.

Xover needs to be on 150Hz, once the system has been calibrated/setup the xover will be controlled via the amp.

To begin with set Phase to 0.

You should have Low level connections at the back, these will look like phono connections, one labelled L (left) the other R (right), connect a single lead (phono/sub cable) to L, the other end will go into the sub out at the back of the amp.

To begin with set volume half way.

Once you have set the sub up you will need to calibrate the amp, if you don't have auto setup you will have to do it manually.

Manual calibration...........

Set speaker distances, delays and levels. If you have a SPL metre set all speakers to 75db - if you don't have a SPL metre you will have to do the speaker levels by ear, try and get all speaker levels the same, the sub will be a little harder, I'll explain that later.

Once the speakers are set you will need to set the xover, set this 100Hz, this will cover the satellites.

Double check all settings and connections.

When you have the system up and running and you entered manual settings you can now set the sub up a little better. All that's required is a soundtrack you know well, something that is bass heavy, this can be music or a movie. You want the sub to underpin the soundstage, not rule it, adjust the volume on the back of the sub until you feel you have the right amount of bass. You can also the Phase if you wish, but I doubt you will need to touch this.

For the system to be setup precisely, I can't recommend a SPL metre enough.

I agree - SPL meter helps, but the speakers have a frequency response of 95hz to 20khz and the woofer is from 95hz down to 30hz - so why the 150hz xover setting?

The amp, which surely deserve greater respect than these cheapo's, is fully manual.

Deacon1972 · 23-06-2010, 19:16

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I agree - SPL meter helps, but the speakers have a frequency response of 95hz to 20khz and the woofer is from 95hz down to 30hz - so why the 150hz xover setting?

The amp, which surely deserve greater respect than these cheapo's, is fully manual.

I've explained the 150Hz xover on the sub in the above post.

The amp xover should be set to 100Hz, that will cover the satellites as they are rated at around 90-95Hz.

RobAnt · 23-06-2010, 19:16

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Sub xover needs to be on full (150Hz), the xover on the amp will be controling the xover.

If you set the sub xover to the same setting as the amp over the two will interfere.

Better still, if the sub has the option to switch the internal xover off, switch it off.

Ahh, I see, yes. Okay.

RobAnt · 23-06-2010, 19:18

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I've explained the 150Hz xover on the sub in the above post.

The amp xover should be set to 100Hz, that will cover the satellites as they are rated at around 90-95Hz.

Blimey, gimme a chance to read it.

RobAnt · 23-06-2010, 19:25

mmm

Just thinking about this for a moment, but is that subwoofer self powered? (Otherwise known as "active").

If it isn't you've got a problem OP, because the Azur only has a line-level output for a sub. It's actually designed to only use a powered sub, or, preferably, full range speakers, such as mine.

My system is set upt:

Front Stereo : Monitor Audio 14's
Rear/Side pair: Monitor Audio 200's
Centre Front: Ruark Dialogue 1

So, 5.0 is sufficient in my case, I will only buy a sub if it will go down to 20hz or lower, and as I said before, they're expensive.

Deacon1972 · 23-06-2010, 19:27

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Blimey, gimme a chance to read it.

You're a little slow tonight Rob.

RobAnt · 23-06-2010, 19:28

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You're a little slow tonight Rob.

It's the heat, my knickers are sticking!

Deacon1972 · 23-06-2010, 19:31

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Blimey, gimme a chance to read it.

You're a little slow tonight Rob.

BK do some very good subs at good prices.

I've no idea what you consider expensive, but the XXLS400 goes below 20Hz in room and costs about £400.

The smaller XLS200 is measured at -6db and goes down to 17db, good placement in a good room should give close to 20Hz, this costs about £300.

http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/XXLS400.htm

http://www.bkelec.com/hifi/Sub_Woofe...00-DFandFF.htm

Personally I think a sub would be a good addition, it would free up the fronts so they can do what they do best, mid range from 80Hz upwards, let the sub do what that's good at, replaying 80Hz downwards to 20Hz or less.

steven123 · 23-06-2010, 19:33

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I agree - SPL meter helps,

The amp, which surely deserve greater respect than these cheapo's, is fully manual.

No idea what an SPL meter is?

I didn't know these were 'cheap' speakers, have seen them retailing all the way up to £799 though admittedly £299 to £399 more common. Then again I got them for £180 used so I guess that is kinda cheap though you have to remember I'm on the bottom end with entry level Yamaha's (NSP110) so they will be an upgrade for me hopefully.

In terms of size and weight they are massive compared to the Yamaha's about double height and weight and the sub is a monster, albeit a rather scary one with too many knobs and sockets

Deacon1972 · 23-06-2010, 19:37

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No idea what an SPL meter is?

It measures the output from the speakers when using the test tone, it enables you to set each speaker to the recommended 75db for home cinema use.

This is what I use, they can be found cheaper.

http://www.google.co.uk/product_url?...=0CAkQgwgwADgA

It's very difficult to set every speaker to the same level by ear, you could be out as much as 3db, 4db, 5db out, this can affect the soundstage when listening to multichannel soundtracks.

steven123 · 23-06-2010, 19:49

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mmm

Just thinking about this for a moment, but is that subwoofer self powered? (Otherwise known as "active").

If it isn't you've got a problem OP, because the Azur only has a line-level output for a sub. It's actually designed to only use a powered sub, or, preferably, full range speakers, such as mine.

Yep, the sub is an active one. I had that problem when I first bought the amp as I was trying to use the speakers/sub from my previous system which was a cheap DVD surround sound system with a passive sub. Ended up having to sell off the speakers and buy the Yamaha NSP110s so I had a 'proper' powered sub.

Still a bit frightened of that beastly sub on the new speakers, would it do any harm if I just wired them into the amp and used them with the Yamaha sub at first to test they work? Not sure if I want to be getting into crossovers and speaker distances tonight, just to know the things can produce something recognisable as sound would be adequate for now.

To be honest I don't really want to hose a lot of time fine tuning the speakers to this amp as I am trying to get a new(er) 7.1 amp to use with these speakers for HD audio on my HD DVDs and Blu Rays. So want to leave the bulk of the fine tuning till I have my new amp which, hopefully will be in the next couple of weeks.

So really just looking for basic, general settings that will give useable sound that I can live with for a couple weeks and of course let me verify that it all works properly.

Never set crossover on the amp before, is there a particular button on the remote for it? I did do speaker distances some time ago thanks to your help Deacon1972, but my room furniture has changed and of course the speakers too now so I should probably do it again, you set the time according to distance I think? can't remember exactly what distance equals what delay time though

RobAnt · 23-06-2010, 19:59

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You're a little slow tonight Rob.

BK do some very good subs at good prices.

I've no idea what you consider expensive, but the XXLS400 goes below 20Hz in room and costs about £400.

The smaller XLS200 is measured at -6db and goes down to 17db, good placement in a good room should give close to 20Hz, this costs about £300.

http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/XXLS400.htm

http://www.bkelec.com/hifi/Sub_Woofe...00-DFandFF.htm

Personally I think a sub would be a good addition, it would free up the fronts so they can do what they do best, mid range from 80Hz upwards, let the sub do what that's good at, replaying 80Hz downwards to 20Hz or less.

That sounds about right. Maybe a little lower, 80hz isn't quite low enough for me to be able to detect positioning within the sound stage. I mean, it's not low enough. Bass and Double Bass type instruments would sound out of place, as if half the bass strings were in the right place, and half in the sub.

Not seen these before. Even so, as I'm only on ICB and a little DLA, I would need to save, and I need a lot of other things before I could afford them - what with the possible changes to my ICB/DLA that might take a lot longer.

Deacon1972 · 23-06-2010, 19:59

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Yep, the sub is an active one. I had that problem when I first bought the amp as I was trying to use the speakers/sub from my previous system which was a cheap DVD surround sound system with a passive sub. Ended up having to sell off the speakers and buy the Yamaha NSP110s so I had a 'proper' powered sub.

Still a bit frightened of that beastly sub on the new speakers, would it do any harm if I just wired them into the amp and used them with the Yamaha sub at first to test they work? Not sure if I want to be getting into crossovers and speaker distances tonight, just to know the things can produce something recognisable as sound would be adequate for now.

To be honest I don't really want to hose a lot of time fine tuning the speakers to this amp as I am trying to get a new(er) 7.1 amp to use with these speakers for HD audio on my HD DVDs and Blu Rays. So want to leave the bulk of the fine tuning till I have my new amp which, hopefully will be in the next couple of weeks.

So really just looking for basic, general settings that will give useable sound that I can live with for a couple weeks and of course let me verify that it all works properly.

Never set crossover on the amp before, is there a particular button on the remote for it? I did do speaker distances some time ago thanks to your help Deacon1972, but my room furniture has changed and of course the speakers too now so I should probably do it again, you set the time according to distance I think? can't remember exactly what distance equals what delay time though

Can't see a problem just wiring them up and making sure they work, it's not like you are going to be driving the system flat out.

You could connect the sub up too, just select 150Hz on the subs xover and turn the volume down to 1/3, when the systems running just turn it up a little just to make sure the sub is firing.

You will not need to set the system up manually, not even the delays, especially if you go for one of the Onkyo's you have mentioned, these amps have auto setup and room EQ.

But for future reference delay settings are 1ft = 1ms.

Deacon1972 · 23-06-2010, 20:04

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That sounds about right. Maybe a little lower, 80hz isn't quite low enough for me to be able to detect positioning within the sound stage. I mean, it's not low enough. Bass and Double Bass type instruments would sound out of place, as if half the bass strings were in the right place, and half in the sub.

Not seen these before. Even so, as I'm only on ICB and a little DLA, I would need to save, and I need a lot of other things before I could afford them - what with the possible changes to my ICB/DLA that might take a lot longer.

Pretty sure the Cambridge will allow two personal settings for music/movies.

80Hz works better for movie soundtracks, for music you could use the talyor made settings you mentioned earlier.

I do this on my amp, the xover is set to 40Hz on 2 channel, and 80Hz for movies (multichannel).

Heard there might be changes to DLA, may come in during 2013/14, why can't they leave those less fortunate to just live their life in peace.

RobAnt · 23-06-2010, 21:53

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Pretty sure the Cambridge will allow two personal settings for music/movies.

80Hz works better for movie soundtracks, for music you could use the talyor made settings you mentioned earlier.

I do this on my amp, the xover is set to 40Hz on 2 channel, and 80Hz for movies (multichannel).

Heard there might be changes to DLA, may come in during 2013/14, why can't they leave those less fortunate to just live their life in peace.

You can select output on the fly. So, for instance, my turntable is connected (via a phono stage) to the CD input, which is configured as an analogue input.

Unfortunately, sometimes, when I change back to an optical or coax input it forgets what the correct setting is, and remains in stereo - or 2.1 depending on whether the souce material is DD/DTS or not. So I would then have to re-apply DPL (I use DPL-Movie) or if in DD/DTS I will need to set it to auto using the DD EX/DTS ES button, which sets it to full DD/DTS 5.1

As the source can have multiple output types, it is necessary to find and apply the correct one. You can't just select a profile and apply it across the board, while storing a different profile for, say, someone elses preferences.

It can be a bit confusing from time to time, especially in my situation, where I use both optical and coax, and analogue inputs. The digital inputs are shared, and you can apply an analogue input to anything. It's flexible, but as I say, occasionally confusing.

Having said that, the sound is way better than it's price suggests.

RobAnt · 23-06-2010, 22:10

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Yep, the sub is an active one. I had that problem when I first bought the amp as I was trying to use the speakers/sub from my previous system which was a cheap DVD surround sound system with a passive sub. Ended up having to sell off the speakers and buy the Yamaha NSP110s so I had a 'proper' powered sub.

Still a bit frightened of that beastly sub on the new speakers, would it do any harm if I just wired them into the amp and used them with the Yamaha sub at first to test they work? Not sure if I want to be getting into crossovers and speaker distances tonight, just to know the things can produce something recognisable as sound would be adequate for now.

To be honest I don't really want to hose a lot of time fine tuning the speakers to this amp as I am trying to get a new(er) 7.1 amp to use with these speakers for HD audio on my HD DVDs and Blu Rays. So want to leave the bulk of the fine tuning till I have my new amp which, hopefully will be in the next couple of weeks.

So really just looking for basic, general settings that will give useable sound that I can live with for a couple weeks and of course let me verify that it all works properly.

Never set crossover on the amp before, is there a particular button on the remote for it? I did do speaker distances some time ago thanks to your help Deacon1972, but my room furniture has changed and of course the speakers too now so I should probably do it again, you set the time according to distance I think? can't remember exactly what distance equals what delay time though

You can set up the crossover by connecting the amp to your TV. The menu there is quite comprehensive, and is a lot easier to use than the LED panel on the front.

Yes, you apply timing according to distance. Although the distances are preset - I mean you cannot enter a distance you've actually measured, just select the time nearest.

I may have been a bit harsh on the speakers. As they've been out of manufacture for about 4 years, or so, I presumed they were of poor performance, and the specifications I've seen certainly back that up.

Your biggest problem is that your satellites are all "small" (according to the amp setting you need to apply). The centre speaker will need to be set to large, as will the sub.

I'm personally not happy with these kinds of speakers, unless they have their own receiver, because to work properly with this AV receiver you're badly compromising the basic stereo performance.

Deacon1972 · 24-06-2010, 10:00

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Your biggest problem is that your satellites are all "small" (according to the amp setting you need to apply). The centre speaker will need to be set to large, as will the sub.

Personally I don't see a problem Rob. If anything the frequencies of the satellites are a tiny bit too high, around 80Hz would have been spot on, but then frequencies at around 100-110Hz are non directional, meaning, you can't distinguish where these frequencies are coming from, there won't be an issue using these satellites.

All the main speakers will need to be set to small, even the centre speaker. In regards to the sub, I doubt the Cambridge will deal with this any differently to any other amp, it should give two options, something like LFE and LFE+Mains. Select LFE, this means once the xover has been set (100Hz in this case) everything from 100Hz will be sent to the sub.

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I'm personally not happy with these kinds of speakers, unless they have their own receiver, because to work properly with this AV receiver you're badly compromising the basic stereo performance.

Speakers with their own receiver?

The Cambridge is like any other multichannel receiver, isn't it?

Why won't these speakers work well with this amp?

Basically you have a sub in a 5.1 system, ideally you would have speakers that cover 20Hz -> 20Khz, the system works best when you have speakers set to small, xover set to 80Hz, but for satellites it needs to be set a little higher. These recommended settings should work for all audio formats and should be configurable on most receivers.

I can't see why using satellites will be such a problem with this amp, not even for stereo. So long as you don't have a sub producing frequencies of 120Hz upwards there should never be a problem with what ever speaker you are using.

steven123 · 24-06-2010, 14:26

"You can set up the crossover by connecting the amp to your TV. The menu there is quite comprehensive, and is a lot easier to use than the LED panel on the front."

hmm, I don't think I've ever seen any kind of OSD on this amp. I know when I hooked up some of my games consoles through its component inputs it only displayed the image as a pass through e.g. it didn't come up DVD, video 1, 2 etc on the TV screen, only on the little panel on the amp. Unless there is a specific button to make it display?

I wonder if I have an earlier version of the amp than yours, was OSD only included in newer revisions? Think I better check the manual to be sure.

Deacon1972 · 24-06-2010, 14:38

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"You can set up the crossover by connecting the amp to your TV. The menu there is quite comprehensive, and is a lot easier to use than the LED panel on the front."

hmm, I don't think I've ever seen any kind of OSD on this amp. I know when I hooked up some of my games consoles through its component inputs it only displayed the image as a pass through e.g. it didn't come up DVD, video 1, 2 etc on the TV screen, only on the little panel on the amp. Unless there is a specific button to make it display?

I wonder if I have an earlier version of the amp than yours, was OSD only included in newer revisions? Think I better check the manual to be sure.

If the amp allows OSD it will have a video connection on the back labelled monitor and yellow in colour. Just connect a single phono lead to this and plug the other end in to the composite video input (yellow) on the TV, most TV's have one, sometimes they are on the side.

Select the corresponding input on the TV, then when you press setup/menu it should be displayed on screen.

steven123 · 24-06-2010, 15:30

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