I understand all the future doctor setting everything up to have Rory free him but what's the starting point of this sequence as it seems implausible for the doctor to be in a position to have his future self set everything up
Doctors escape - how? (spoiler of tonights eps)
Originally Posted by CD93:
“Predestination paradox
/end thread.”
“Predestination paradox
/end thread.”
exactly.... plus OP you need to red the thread 'BIg Bang Confusion'.
There is no starting point - it is circular.
Rory frees the Doctor because the Doctor sets it up.
The Doctor can set it up because Rory frees the Doctor.
Just think of it as a closed causal loop, going round and round and round. No beginning, no end...
Matthew
Rory frees the Doctor because the Doctor sets it up.
The Doctor can set it up because Rory frees the Doctor.
Just think of it as a closed causal loop, going round and round and round. No beginning, no end...
Matthew
How can it be a spoiler when we already know what happened? 
You are aware it's a work of fiction and you may need to suspend reality for a while?
(No sarcasm intended)
You are aware it's a work of fiction and you may need to suspend reality for a while?
(No sarcasm intended)
So basically you're saying its the chicken and the egg - but we do know what happened first, the doctor was trapped - it's a very poor plot device.
Originally Posted by MrChicken:
“How can it be a spoiler when we already know what happened?
You are aware it's a work of fiction and you may need to suspend reality for a while?
(No sarcasm intended)”
“How can it be a spoiler when we already know what happened?
You are aware it's a work of fiction and you may need to suspend reality for a while?
(No sarcasm intended)”
Some may not of watched it yet.
Course it's fiction
I'll read through the Big Bang thread, looping is blowing my mind http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s....php?t=1284832
Originally Posted by mdovey:
“There is no starting point - it is circular.
Rory frees the Doctor because the Doctor sets it up.
The Doctor can set it up because Rory frees the Doctor.
Just think of it as a closed causal loop, going round and round and round. No beginning, no end...
Matthew”
“There is no starting point - it is circular.
Rory frees the Doctor because the Doctor sets it up.
The Doctor can set it up because Rory frees the Doctor.
Just think of it as a closed causal loop, going round and round and round. No beginning, no end...
Matthew”
This is the clearest explanation I've read. This type of thinking is set up in The Lodger when the Doctor tells Amy that she needs to write the note for what has already happened.
Closed time loops are the perfect 'Get Out of Jail Free' card for time travel series. As much as they can be disputed... they always existed, from the very beginning of time, they were predestined.
It's a plot hole until such time as it's ret-conned.
Last edited by Blue Aardvark : 27-06-2010 at 00:26
Last edited by Blue Aardvark : 27-06-2010 at 00:26
And let's not forget reality was falling in itself. It might be a plot device but it does quite succinctly explain why time might behave slightly differently in this episode than it might typically.
Originally Posted by Salford_Who:
“So basically you're saying its the chicken and the egg - but we do know what happened first, the doctor was trapped - it's a very poor plot device.”
“So basically you're saying its the chicken and the egg - but we do know what happened first, the doctor was trapped - it's a very poor plot device.”
Rubbish. The same logic would unravel the basic premise of "Blink," too. Sally could never have seen the Doctor's "easter eggs" if he hadn't already got the transcript of their "conversation" over the DVD.
Same could be said of "The Terminator." Whole story being a causal loop. Skynet sends back a Terminator to kill John Connor's mother, forcing the resistance to send back a saviour, who ends up being John Connor's father, who causes the resitance that defeats Skynet, who sends back a Terminator to kill John Connor's mother, forcing the resitance to send back a saviour...etc.
Self-contained causal loops, with no beginning and no end are a long-stanidng trope of time-travel fiction. It's proper sci-fi, playing with the "what if" scenario of people operating outside of linear time. If you consider that a "poor plot device" then sci-fi time-travel stories are not for you.
It's probably the most classic time travel plot device. All you need to do is get rid of the notion that cause must precede effect, the rest is entirely self-consistent.
I mean, it does raise the question (that many people have) of why it wouldn't be easier to destroy the Doctor - after all, as long as there is any opportunity that a freed Doctor could engineer a way to be freed (which is pretty much a given) then he'd be able to get out of it.
It's no more bizarre than the Doctor-using-a-transcript-of-a-conversation-he-only-has-because-someone-wrote-it-down-while-he-was-having-it plotline of Blink....
I mean, it does raise the question (that many people have) of why it wouldn't be easier to destroy the Doctor - after all, as long as there is any opportunity that a freed Doctor could engineer a way to be freed (which is pretty much a given) then he'd be able to get out of it.
It's no more bizarre than the Doctor-using-a-transcript-of-a-conversation-he-only-has-because-someone-wrote-it-down-while-he-was-having-it plotline of Blink....
Originally Posted by Helbore:
“Rubbish. The same logic would unravel the basic premise of "Blink," too. Sally could never have seen the Doctor's "easter eggs" if he hadn't already got the transcript of their "conversation" over the DVD.
Same could be said of "The Terminator." Whole story being a causal loop. Skynet sends back a Terminator to kill John Connor's mother, forcing the resistance to send back a saviour, who ends up being John Connor's father, who causes the resitance that defeats Skynet, who sends back a Terminator to kill John Connor's mother, forcing the resitance to send back a saviour...etc.
Self-contained causal loops, with no beginning and no end are a long-stanidng trope of time-travel fiction. It's proper sci-fi, playing with the "what if" scenario of people operating outside of linear time. If you consider that a "poor plot device" then sci-fi time-travel stories are not for you.”
“Rubbish. The same logic would unravel the basic premise of "Blink," too. Sally could never have seen the Doctor's "easter eggs" if he hadn't already got the transcript of their "conversation" over the DVD.
Same could be said of "The Terminator." Whole story being a causal loop. Skynet sends back a Terminator to kill John Connor's mother, forcing the resistance to send back a saviour, who ends up being John Connor's father, who causes the resitance that defeats Skynet, who sends back a Terminator to kill John Connor's mother, forcing the resitance to send back a saviour...etc.
Self-contained causal loops, with no beginning and no end are a long-stanidng trope of time-travel fiction. It's proper sci-fi, playing with the "what if" scenario of people operating outside of linear time. If you consider that a "poor plot device" then sci-fi time-travel stories are not for you.”
Or the daft episode with David's Doctor, and the older one, where he was able to fix the problem with the Tardis, because the previous Doctor had done it.
