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Eastenders: Sharon vs Kat


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Old 27-06-2010, 02:13
childoflight
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Hello everyone I am new here. Though I have been reading this forum for a couple of years know I have been hesitant to sign up as some people can be quite ummm harsh and angry .

Anyway I have been trying to locate a clip from Eastenders which had Sharon and Kat having a verbal confrontation outside the pub in the market, as I was thinking who would win in a physical fight between:

Sharon vs Kat

and

Letitia vs Jessie.

I know this has nothing to do with the current Eastenders but it has been something I've been thinking about ever since I watched the above mentioned clip.

If anyone know's of the clip please post a link.
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Old 27-06-2010, 04:37
Filiman
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I recall Kat and Sharon had a big bargy in the market when Sharon returned in 05.

Of course, Sharon Watts trumps Kat Slater any day. Sharon is, after all, the First Lady of Walford and from the first family!
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Old 27-06-2010, 04:43
Callummm
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In regards to Jessie VS Letitia, Jessie is a much better actress. Sharon has been in the show longer, but Kat became iconic in such a short time, and with her return this year i think she could surpass Sharon's legacy if she gets the right storylines etc.
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Old 27-06-2010, 05:34
Filiman
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In regards to Jessie VS Letitia, Jessie is a much better actress. Sharon has been in the show longer, but Kat became iconic in such a short time, and with her return this year i think she could surpass Sharon's legacy if she gets the right storylines etc.
I very much doubt that.... as good as the Zoe/Kat reveal was, it is still below Sharongate; Sharon is surrounded by iconic characters: Den, Angie, Grant; whilst her relationship with Dennis was the only equal to the Kat and Aflie saga we had in the 00s. It would take A LOT of really good writing and a lot of very high profile eps and storylines for Kat to enter the same grade as Sharon. One has to remember that Sharon is one of the few characters that unites all eras of EE - 80s, 90s, and 00s. Only Ian, Pauline and perhaps Mark also do that.

I mean people on here talk about Stacey been the equal or replacement of Kat..... and there is no way Stacey is as iconic as Sharon.

Not that Kat isn't a great character - she is.... but Sharon is among the top 10 most iconic and prolific characters the show has ever had.... she, Phil, and Den would all be vying for the top spot. I think Kat would struggle to get in than range.
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Old 27-06-2010, 10:03
MuteBanana
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Hello everyone I am new here. Though I have been reading this forum for a couple of years know I have been hesitant to sign up as some people can be quite ummm harsh and angry .

Anyway I have been trying to locate a clip from Eastenders which had Sharon and Kat having a verbal confrontation outside the pub in the market, as I was thinking who would win in a physical fight between:

Sharon vs Kat

and

Letitia vs Jessie.

I know this has nothing to do with the current Eastenders but it has been something I've been thinking about ever since I watched the above mentioned clip.

If anyone know's of the clip please post a link.
The scene you talk of is from the incredible Dennis vs Walford episode where Sharon and Dennis return after several months away in America. Everyone is looking down their nose at Dennis after thinking he got Zoe pregnant and then left her for Sharon, causing her to lose the baby. Dennis also has his first encounter with Johnny Allen on the square in one of the best couple of scenes in the past 10 years. Ah...I could go on and on.

And here it is

Dennis vs Albert Square

I knew I'd uploaded it somewhere. The scene between Kat and Sharon is around the 5 minute mark. I hope it's the scene you're talking about!

(Sorry about the terrible quality)
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Old 27-06-2010, 10:07
Lauren__
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Ahhh such a shame; I've had that clip up on my youtube channel for months but just yesterday the BBC forced me into removing all 1300 vids!! LOL so I now have a videoless youtube channel youtube.com/eeclipz
The confrontation happened because Sharon & Dennis came back and at the time Kat and everyone else still believed it was Dennis who had got Zoe pregnant than walked out on her. Kat was picking on Dennis the whole day but Sharon was getting fed up with Dennis not saying anything back so she jumped in to stand up for him. Her and Sharon were standing about 10 ft away and Sharon was giving Kat a dirty look. Kat said something like "if you wanna fight in the street Sharon I'm just about ready for one" Dennis then told sharon to just leave and I they all walked off I think.

Comparing them is hard. I know most people will probably say Sharon and to an extent I agree. However Kat is my fave ever eastenders character so I obviously prefer her. I completely appriciate the iconicness of Sharon though as people practically watched her grow up on the square and have therefore watched Letitia grow up on their tellies to.

I think Sharon's character weakened towards her last 2/3 years though. As much as I adored Sharon and Dennis together it kind of merged sharon into a part of Shannis when she had previously been so independent. Nevertheless I think she'll always be one of the most legendary characters on the show. Not only because of her character but because she's part of the Watts family.

As for Jessie Vs Letitia. If you mean in terms of acting again that's a really difficult one as they've both had some amazing scenes and storylines and I think they were two of the strongest in the show between 2002-2005. I'd say Jessie purely for the fact the aftermath of the Kat/Zoe reveal was amazing. Then again though, Sharon's reaction after Dennis died was heartbreaking too.. Hmmmmm
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Old 27-06-2010, 10:21
KatrinaK
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This episode brings back so many great memories. Thank you.
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Old 27-06-2010, 12:05
snoopy10
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Ahhh such a shame; I've had that clip up on my youtube channel for months but just yesterday the BBC forced me into removing all 1300 vids!! LOL so I now have a videoless youtube channel youtube.com/eeclipz
Noo! They're so evil, so they won't let anyone watch old episodes at all; they won't put them out on a DVD themselves and they won't let saints like you upload them
For EE fanatics like me, your youtube channel was my heaven!

Hmm, I'd have to say Letitia/Sharon, as much as I LOVED Kat. Sharon was definitely iconic, and she was heartbreaking to watch after Dennis' death (didn't help that I was heartbroken already )
Looking forward to Kat's return though, loveed her. Would have liked to see more of the Slater girls return, I loved that era.
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Old 27-06-2010, 12:27
open_ended
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The show's first family are the Fowler/Beales. That's what Julia Smith said, and wanted. A big EastEnd family. That's why they always had all the family-based storylines.

Den and Angie were more of a showy couple with their adopted daughter, who very quickly abandoned them to stand on her own too feet post-divorce papers. The Watts were only ever a proper family when they were together en-masse circa 2003-2005.
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Old 27-06-2010, 12:28
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That was a brilliant week of episodes when Sharon and Dennis returned. My favourite part is when Zoe relives to Kat how they buried Den's body and you hear sounds from that night while the camera sweeps through the pub. There's a part where Chrissie walks into the bar and there's a flash of thunder behind her.
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Old 27-06-2010, 14:04
Filiman
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Ahhh such a shame; I've had that clip up on my youtube channel for months but just yesterday the BBC forced me into removing all 1300 vids!! LOL so I now have a videoless youtube channel youtube.com/eeclipz
The confrontation happened because Sharon & Dennis came back and at the time Kat and everyone else still believed it was Dennis who had got Zoe pregnant than walked out on her. Kat was picking on Dennis the whole day but Sharon was getting fed up with Dennis not saying anything back so she jumped in to stand up for him. Her and Sharon were standing about 10 ft away and Sharon was giving Kat a dirty look. Kat said something like "if you wanna fight in the street Sharon I'm just about ready for one" Dennis then told sharon to just leave and I they all walked off I think.

Comparing them is hard. I know most people will probably say Sharon and to an extent I agree. However Kat is my fave ever eastenders character so I obviously prefer her. I completely appriciate the iconicness of Sharon though as people practically watched her grow up on the square and have therefore watched Letitia grow up on their tellies to.

I think Sharon's character weakened towards her last 2/3 years though. As much as I adored Sharon and Dennis together it kind of merged sharon into a part of Shannis when she had previously been so independent. Nevertheless I think she'll always be one of the most legendary characters on the show. Not only because of her character but because she's part of the Watts family.

As for Jessie Vs Letitia. If you mean in terms of acting again that's a really difficult one as they've both had some amazing scenes and storylines and I think they were two of the strongest in the show between 2002-2005. I'd say Jessie purely for the fact the aftermath of the Kat/Zoe reveal was amazing. Then again though, Sharon's reaction after Dennis died was heartbreaking too.. Hmmmmm
Agree very much.

Sharon is in a league of her own in terms of iconic - but that in no way diminishes just what a great character Kat is - to my mind, she is probably THE character of the 00s - it is just if one is comparing what the two characters mean to EE, then of course, obviously, Sharon comes out on top.

Also agree that both are good actresses. Letitia Dean gets a bit of a hard rap because, during her first stint 85-95, she was still developing a little as an actress but still could give a good performance. I think she was much better when she returned in 2001, but often had very "soapy" storylines to do, so some just brush her off. But as you say, her scenes after Dennis' death were very powerful.

And I've always thought Jessie Wallace was a good actress.
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Old 27-06-2010, 14:05
Filiman
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That was a brilliant week of episodes when Sharon and Dennis returned. My favourite part is when Zoe relives to Kat how they buried Den's body and you hear sounds from that night while the camera sweeps through the pub. There's a part where Chrissie walks into the bar and there's a flash of thunder behind her.
Very nice!!!!!
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Old 27-06-2010, 14:06
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Agree very much.

Sharon is in a league of her own in terms of iconic - but that in no way diminishes just what a great character Kat is - to my mind, she is probably THE character of the 00s - it is just if one is comparing what the two characters mean to EE, then of course, obviously, Sharon comes out on top.

Also agree that both are good actresses. Letitia Dean gets a bit of a hard rap because, during her first stint 85-95, she was still developing a little as an actress but still could give a good performance. I think she was much better when she returned in 2001, but often had very "soapy" storylines to do, so some just brush her off. But as you say, her scenes after Dennis' death were very powerful.

And I've always thought Jessie Wallace was a good actress.
I personally love Sharon in 1995 when she comes back from America looking gorgeous and with a new found sense of self-purpose. This Sharon wasn't going to go crawling to Grant. It's a shame it was all building up to her exit storyline.
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Old 27-06-2010, 14:07
Filiman
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The show's first family are the Fowler/Beales. That's what Julia Smith said, and wanted. A big EastEnd family. That's why they always had all the family-based storylines.

Den and Angie were more of a showy couple with their adopted daughter, who very quickly abandoned them to stand on her own too feet post-divorce papers. The Watts were only ever a proper family when they were together en-masse circa 2003-2005.
Ah... but that depends on what one means by "family" . The first time round, the Watts were a very dysfunctional nuclear family - but they were still a family.

I agree the Fowlers/Beales were set up as the archetypal family unit, and remain so, but to me "first family" means dramatic punch - and that is always going to be the Watts - no one is as dysfunctionally dramatic as them.

But the archtypal family of the show is, without doubt, the Beales/Fowlers.
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Old 27-06-2010, 14:10
Filiman
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I personally love Sharon in 1995 when she comes back from America looking gorgeous and with a new found sense of self-purpose. This Sharon wasn't going to go crawling to Grant. It's a shame it was all building up to her exit storyline.
Couldn't agree more. Love her 1995 return.

I loved her 2001 return too... and I thought she came back much tougher in 2005, and not so wispish as she had been in 04 especially.
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Old 27-06-2010, 14:10
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Ah... but that depends on what one means by "family" . The first time round, the Watts were a very dysfunctional nuclear family - but they were still a family.

I agree the Fowlers/Beales were set up as the archetypal family unit, and remain so, but to me "first family" means dramatic punch - and that is always going to be the Watts - no one is as dysfunctionally dramatic as them.

But the archtypal family of the show is, without doubt, the Beales/Fowlers.
I suppose I'd class the Beales/Fowlers as the first family as they all stayed around longer and were drawn from Tony Holland's own family. They wanted a big EastEnd family to base the soap around.

The Watts of course were equally as important to early EE. They provided the flashy drama while the Beales/Fowlers tackled the more mundane side of family life.
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Old 27-06-2010, 14:12
Filiman
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I suppose I'd class the Beales/Fowlers as the first family as they all stayed around longer and were drawn from Tony Holland's own family. They wanted a big EastEnd family to base the soap around.

The Watts of course were equally as important to early EE. They provided the flashy drama while the Beales/Fowlers tackled the more mundane side of family life.
Honestly, I see exactly where you are coming from. I would have no problem in agreeing that, in terms of the show as a whole, the Beales/Fowlers are the first family of EE.
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Old 27-06-2010, 14:12
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Couldn't agree more. Love her 1995 return.
You shouldn't have edited your post. I was about to agree with you. When she came back in 2005 she was much stronger like she had been in 2001. I do hope we see her again because that black cab exit with Phil in 06 does not do her justice for a final scene. I'm sure she'll be back but as the years go on her links do diminish. There's only really Ian, Pat and Dot now and would they be enough to bring her back. I wouldn't put her in a relationship with Phil again. I suppose if she comes back with the baby and Vicky that's a family unit for her.
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Old 27-06-2010, 14:17
Filiman
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You shouldn't have edited your post. I was about to agree with you. When she came back in 2005 she was much stronger like she had been in 2001. I do hope we see her again because that black cab exit with Phil in 06 does not do her justice for a final scene. I'm sure she'll be back but as the years go on her links do diminish. There's only really Ian, Pat and Dot now and would they be enough to bring her back. I wouldn't put her in a relationship with Phil again. I suppose if she comes back with the baby and Vicky that's a family unit for her.
Ian is enough - given that he has gone over to see her, and every so often they have a phone chat. Link with Pat is strong to.

Sharon never had a strong connection with Dot, though, so I don't think there is any tie there.

And of course Phil.

THe BIG thing for me, though, is that Sharon still doesn't know about the role Phil played in Dennis death. To me, that has to be addressed at some point and I think it would be very dramatic. There is a loose tie there.

But it won't be easy to bring her back - like it was in 01. It would be worth imo.

Although I'd say that she shouldn't return this year - nor early next, as there have just been too many returnees. The earleist possible time, imo, would be towards end of next year.
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Old 27-06-2010, 14:26
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In 01 it was the pub being up for sale that bought her back. I don't know if she'd want the Vic back after all these years though.
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Old 27-06-2010, 15:41
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In 01 it was the pub being up for sale that bought her back. I don't know if she'd want the Vic back after all these years though.
Seeing as she sold the pub back to the Mitchells in 05, I doubt Sharon would want anything to do with it again. The Vic holds nothing but unhappy memories for Sharon; Angie and Den at each other's throats, her marriage to Grant and her father's death.

If Sharon were ever to come back, she should be the strong, feisty Sharon we saw in 2001. By 04/05 she had become a bit wet, it really didn't feel like the same character at all (although we did saw small glimpses of the old Sharon in the fight with Zoe and also when she punched Chrissie at the airport). I definitely think there are enough ties in the Square to make her return plausible; she still has strong links to Ian and, especially, Phil.
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Old 08-05-2011, 00:13
Lucasade15
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To be honest I think Kat would rip sharons head off, Kat is very feisty. Sharon is more of a peacemaker.
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Old 08-05-2011, 04:17
Joshua91
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Kat wins. Jessie wins. Jessie is the better actress. And whilst Sharon might have a stronger on screen history, Kat is by far the stronger character and far more iconic.
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Old 08-05-2011, 05:09
Filiman
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Kat wins. Jessie wins. Jessie is the better actress. And whilst Sharon might have a stronger on screen history, Kat is by far the stronger character and far more iconic.
Totally and utterly disagree... Sharon is FAR more iconic than Kat. Sharon is one of THE EE characters, along with Den or Phil, there is just now comparison in this regard...

Sharongate remains the seminal moment for EE; it demonstrated that EE could survive without Den and Angie... who, were, of course, Sharon parents. Sharon is surrounded by some of EE most iconic characters: Den, Angie, grant, Phil, Pauline, Ian.... in comparison, kat isn't.

Shannis was one of the biggest storylines of the 00s, second only to Kalfie; Den's death was also huge, behind Who Shot Phil, Kat-Zoe reveal, and Den's return (which Sharon was also central to).

In terms of character and characterisation; Kat is a well structured character, but Sharon is far more complete imo. Smith and Holland knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they created Sharon and the balance between fiesty independence and spoilt princess is superb and really adds a tremendous realism to the character.... very few characters are as adaptable as Sharon. We can see this in her relationships - Kat is very much tied to Alfie, and although kat could exist without Alfie, at the end of the day the two are so closely linked that developing her character sufficiently would take work on the part of the writers... Sharon was involved with Grant and they were THE couple of the 90s, yet despite that her character was maleable enough to allow her to go on and have another HUGE relationship. No character in EE history has ever really been able to do that, and that's because both Grant and Dennis fed into her characterisation. Grant and Phil were created for her; and then the writers used Sharon's backstory and relationship with Den to feed into with Dennis.

Kat has NO connection to EE prior to 2000.... Sharon is connected to EE throughout its history and was in the show durng ALL its golden periods: 80s; early 90s; and early 00s. And she was instrumentally connected to the peaks in all 3. No other character is.

Certainly, in terms of iconic, there is just no comparison between the two at all. Sharon IS EE.
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Old 08-05-2011, 05:37
Joshua91
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I wont bother quoting as it is a long post but clearly this is a reply to you. Im just going to say two things cause im too tired to argue my point haha. Longevity in the programme doesn't mean you are more iconic, more deserving or more important to the show. And im going for the forum cop out line of its just my opinion. Until another day, forgive me for that.
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