I don't think I can remember such little interest in a forthcoming new Humax product as there is in the Fox HDR T2.

In principle it should be here in a few weeks. I remember with the Foxsat HDR we had reviews in the press, retailers talking about how quickly they were going to get stock from friendly wholesalers (and how the large multiples were being given preference), stories about lorryloads being stolen on route from the factory, etc.

Has the Humax PR machine gone quiet on this one or is there just no interest?

I would quite like one (even though I already have a foxsat HDR) but I have my reservations. Project Canvas will be an essential feature in a year or so and so far I haven't seen any suggestions from Humax that Canvas support will be back fitted to the HDR T2.

I certainly don't want to have to go out and buy another box next year. Maybe it's best to just wait?

Mike

Thanks for the post, I'd never heard of Project Canvas.

I think the problem is, unlike satelite, freeview HD will not be available fully nationwide for a couple of years, hence the lack of urgency.

Also freeview HD is fairly underwelming, and if it had not been for the World Cup, I would have not have bothered yet.

Saying that, I'm glad I have. The WC, Wimbledon and Glastonbury have been stunning( as was Top Gear last night).

I would prefer to wait for a PVR, that is fit for purpose, complete with Canvas. At the moment I am waiting for my Fox T2's recording upgrade, as I think it will be adequate for the amount of HD recordings I want at the moment.

We are doing some PR stuff next week about the HDR, it is currently being debugged and tested extensively.

Bob

Will the debugging and extensive testing go as far as to make sure it works after a power cut with no user intervention?

Project Canvas might be updated
through the Software Firmware
on all HD boxes like the Humax Fox-T2
and the Freesat Humax Foxsat-HDR boxes
and new ones that are launching now hopefully,
because I do not want to buy another Set Top Box,
I just bought one for Freeview HD
and do not really want to buy a new one
for Project Canvas

I think you will be disappointed. Over on hummy.org.uk a Humax employee has said "It is just not possible to upgrade existing products to support Canva; Humax will support the HDR-FOX T2 with any services that are released on Freeview HD and will also add additional content through our TV Portal."

I too had the expectation that Canvas would be added to exisiting Freeview HD boxes and it's very dissapointing to hear that is not the case. How long before Canvas appears and renders the HDR out of date? This seems like a massive oversight from Humax who are a major partner in Canvas!

Yes, this is a real downer on the T2 HDR. The first Humax post was very specific:


I'm sure Bobcat said before that while the Foxsat HDR wasn't capable of supporting new services the new platform for the T2 HDR was specifically designed to able to support them. Now it appears the new platform still isn't up to the task.

Edit: I'm pretty sure this is the post I remember. maybe I was reading too much into it?


One to avoid then. I'm seeing reports that the first Canvas ("Youview"?) products will appear in early 2011. So less than a year away.

Mike

My 9200T always does ...

Canvas should be offering an MHEG application for their content that can be accessed by current Freesat and Freeview HD devices and running this alongside the new platform if this itself cannot be added to current boxes.

Something, somewhere has gone very wrong with the T2 HDR. It has the MHEG engine, it has the IP Connectivity, it's supposed to have the image processing and processor grunt to handle applications like Canvas.

Canvas was known about before the Fox HDR T2 was specified and the new platform should have been able to handle it. I'm disappointed and I guess the Humax guys must be as well. This pretty much kills off the T2 HDR as far as I'm concerned and I'm slightly surprised Humax have bothered spending the last 6-9 months bringing it to market instead of focusing on the Canvas capable platform.

There's also talk about a humax 'portal' coming along which is worrying as I don't feel any great need for such a thing. I hope they don't lose their way by focusing on stuff that isn't really important to their customers.

Mike

Canvas isn't offering content, they are offering a system to navigate and discover content, a framework for other content providers to deliver their content to consumers. Canvas has no content itself. Canvas can't be delivered by MHEG because canvas isn't just one service it is 'a way of life'. There may be a point at which Canvas becomes the industry de facto for Connected TV but there are also alternatives and different ways of doing things. Even Humax will maintain production of our own implementations of EPG/UI/Interactive for a while yet.

The Humax T2 products will all get an update which will which amongst other things, add the Humax TV Portal function to them later in the year, more details will be released on that as time progresses but overall you can expect SkyPlayer and a version of BBC iPlayer.

Add Eurosport Player to that list and I will start to get interested.

Thanks for that info.::

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the clarification and update. I tend to view Canvas as an EPG for finding online content and a set of underlying standards to ensure compatibilty. There may be more to it than this and I'm sure we'll all find out once products get close to market and people start talking up what it can do.

As an official supporter / partner on Canvas I'm sure Humax do view it as an important piece of the jigsaw (at least here in the UK) and it's just a shame that the current generation of products won't be able to support it. I find the BBC iplayer works great on the Foxsat HDR and the ability to access a much wider range of content is compelling. For me this means the T2 HDR would be a £300 12 month (?) stopgap until the Canvas version comes out and that just doesn't add up for me. So I, for one, would rather see the Canvas implementation sooner rather than later.

Humax of course, are a successful company and may have other, strategic objectives in pursuing one approach over another. I'm sure the idea of a portal that can deliver online services to users of your equipment might be attractive to Humax but I struggle to see the attraction as a perspective user. Again I guess we'll find out when the details emerge.

The trouble with the private portal approach is that there's no-one setting the interoperabilty standards and Humax will need to charge for it to cover costs / make money. With Canvas appearing as a standard with the BBC and others behind it I don't really see the portal approach as being successful.

Mike
Last edited by olderscot : 30-06-2010 at 12:25

It’s win win for Humax. A none geeky person buys Humax HDR T2 in July and then in a years time they might choose to buy a Humax Project Canvas box having not previously known about it.

I think it is important t recognise that if you are happy with what you have then there is no need to spend money on something new. I wouldn't want to encourage people to be on an ever increasing spiral of product renewal if they are already happy. Of course as new technology comes along we can't help but have to set break-points.

Olderscot, actually we aren't using proprietary technology for our portal, we are partnering with companies to deliver services. There may be Humax specific tweeks sometimes but in the end it is just a standard W3C-based system.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were. Just trying to point out that Canvas, with the BBC and others behind it, will be in a position to ensure content providers make the content available in a suitable format. Something less likely to happen with a portal.

It is an interesting question of where people will go to for their video content. The broadcasters like BBC, ITV and Sky etc would like people to go directly to them (I guess hence Canvas) while other content aggregators such as Youtube would like people to come to them. The portal idea sits somewhere in between and looks to me as if it'll be squeezed out by the others.

It looks as the concept of custom Apps on Canvas means that you'll get the broadcasters content and the big names in other/on demand content (Youtube, LoveFilm, Sky, etc) via a canvas box which does seem to bypass the need for a portal.

In terms of the T2 HDR I'm sure it will be a good FreeView+ HD box which is why I would have bought one if I knew Canvas would also be along as an upgrade soon.

Most people out there won't have heard of Canvas and I guess will end up choosing between a SD or HD Freeview+ box. At least until Canvas launches to the public in 1H 2011 which isn't that long away. I'm assuming Humax is aiming to be one of the first with a FreeView+ YouView HD PVR (is that a 'FreeYou+' box?).

Mike

Ah, but Olderscot, what you need to understand is that the greatest issue for content providers is that first step of making their content available. The UI is actually a secondary issue. Also as Chief Technologist of Humax I sit on a number of standardisation working groups (and I am the chairman of one) in the UK who are working to ensure compatibility between platforms and products. We hope to ensure that what is written for one platform can be used on others. So we don't need to be in a situation where content is exclusive to any one island of a platform but can be deployed on many.

Bob

Yes Canvas maybe known about, but the platform known to be suitable/appropriate for it, may well not have been mature enough to release this non PVR product in time for the World Cup and skim the market. It did of course help Humax and others, test how well DVB-T2 works in the field so can be seen as very useful from that perspective.

I'd very much expect Canvas required an HDD for overnight downloads, 48hr rental or similar, so maybe that needed more development.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/3416...fox-t2-preview

Having seen the video I don’t care too much about Canvas being around the corner! I will deffo be getting this as soon as I can. Great job with the on screen graphics. Looks brilliant!

Looks fantastic. Is it really on track to be released in just two weeks time though? It doesn't seem possible to even pre-order it anywhere yet.

This definitely has a CAM slot for recording ESPN, right?

I was keen on getting this. However, the recent .23 firmware for my 9200T has extended its usefulness sufficiently to make me realise that I really should wait for a Canvas compliant device to become available.

So, the fact that Humax have not ensured that this device can be upgraded to include Canvas means that, to me, it is indeed D.O.A.

Unfortunately the fact that there is an acknowledged 'industry standard' on the way (and possibly even within 6-9 months) is a major disincentive to buying now for those people that are aware of the situation.

As it is, it doesn't sound like there will be much advantage (in terms of new IP services) with the HDR T2 over my Sony Blu-Ray player which also has IPTV (including Demand Five & BBC iPlayer).

Don't get me wrong - I do want a Freeview+ HD PVR to replace my SD-only 9200T.

But with Canvas being widely trumpeted right now I would be stupid to replace it now and not have any other devices to renew in order to get a Canvas I/F when it does arrive.

I imagine a lot of PVR users who are not interested in IPTV particularly will be happy with the HDR T2 as it stands however, so good luck with the launch!