Sky Sports 1 & 2 available from Aug 1st

wwwebber · 28-06-2010, 11:45

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10430920.stm

Good news for choice etc. No pricing yet though

. Neither do we know how they will be delivered.

One in the eye for the doubters - you know who you are

scotty2808 · 28-06-2010, 12:52

Will look forward to seeing the pricing.
Also concerned about the transmission quality and will wait to hear about it. Hopefully it'll be better than ESPN.

frankie_baby · 28-06-2010, 12:53

We do know how it'll be delivered, its been revealed by ofcom that BT have acquired the 2 channel slots that the BBC/arquiva were selling together

wwwebber · 28-06-2010, 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankie_baby

We do know how it'll be delivered, its been revealed by ofcom that BT have acquired the 2 channel slots that the BBC/arquiva were selling together

Yeah they'll be on Freeview - I've had it confirmed elsewhere too. I guess that means only BTVision subscribers can view these channels

- unless BT sub them out to TUTV etc as well. Not sure.

scotty2808 · 28-06-2010, 12:59

As per frankie's comments.
A transmission deal was announced a while back www...

First link from google... Link to press statement on BT website

wwwebber · 28-06-2010, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty2808

As per frankie's comments.
A transmission deal was announced a while back www...

First link from google... Link to press statement on BT website

Cheers - I missed that one altogether

lowebb · 28-06-2010, 14:12

Why oh why are BT Vision not streaming these over their QoS IP bandwidth? Surely purchasing DTT bandwidth is a large additional cost which it doesnt need

tghe-retford · 28-06-2010, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowebb

Why oh why are BT Vision not streaming these over their QoS IP bandwidth? Surely purchasing DTT bandwidth is a large additional cost which it doesnt need

I bet it's something to do with Arqiva, or at least a desire to launch more pay TV on DTT.

Worthy of note is that Arqiva partnered with BSkyB in persuading Ofcom to allow BSkyB to launch a pay TV platform on DTT. Read of that what you will - just better hope BSkyB doesn't take BT as a major threat, because BSkyB does not do standing back and allowing competitors to contribute to its churn rate.

frankie_baby · 28-06-2010, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowebb

Why oh why are BT Vision not streaming these over their QoS IP bandwidth? Surely purchasing DTT bandwidth is a large additional cost which it doesnt need

Because broadcasting live streaming channels requires additional equipment to be installed at the exchanges and doing that for all exchanges in the country would take a Lou of time and cost a Lot of money

agm2002 · 29-06-2010, 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankie_baby

Because broadcasting live streaming channels requires additional equipment to be installed at the exchanges and doing that for all exchanges in the country would take a Lou of time and cost a Lot of money

It seems a bit silly though, I stream live Baseball in HD quality (I say HD but its the internet, it is better than SD though and certainly better than ESPN) through my PS3 and that comes from US servers. Can't see why BT can't provide SD channels through streaming.

andyf94 · 29-06-2010, 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by agm2002

It seems a bit silly though, I stream live Baseball in HD quality (I say HD but its the internet, it is better than SD though and certainly better than ESPN) through my PS3 and that comes from US servers. Can't see why BT can't provide SD channels through streaming.

But we're talking LIVE football, and I do not want my ethernet adaptors, my BTVision box or my broadband connection to go 'tots' up just as ###### ####### (insert own footballer

) lets go of a 30 yard screamer!!

I was watching an on demand film last night and had to re-set the adaptor 3 or 4 times. That doesn't sit well with live action

lowebb · 29-06-2010, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankie_baby

Because broadcasting live streaming channels requires additional equipment to be installed at the exchanges and doing that for all exchanges in the country would take a Lou of time and cost a Lot of money

Nope not buying it, BT already stream channels so no new tech required. They already have the tech to set up QoS tunnels. The fact its live is neither here nor there

In terms of you having to reset adaptors, I'm not sure why, I've never had to do anything like that

wwwebber · 29-06-2010, 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowebb

Nope not buying it, BT already stream channels so no new tech required. They already have the tech to set up QoS tunnels. The fact its live is neither here nor there

BT dont stream any channels. All of the supposed "channels" that you refer to are VOD based and are triggered by the viewer. There's no concept of switching over to a BT channel and seeing whats currently on because it doesnt work like that.

stuntmaster · 29-06-2010, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwwebber

BT dont stream any channels. All of the supposed "channels" that you refer to are VOD based and are triggered by the viewer. There's no concept of switching over to a BT channel and seeing whats currently on because it doesnt work like that.

However lowebb is correct in stating the tech is already here, they just haven't enabled multicasting on the master head end.

Thus as you say wwwebber its not streaming, but it can be done BT just have not enabled it. why is anyones guess.

if talk talk/tiscali/homechoice can do it then why hasn't BT? perhaps it's something to do with needing a minimum bandwidth? who knows.

andyf94 · 29-06-2010, 18:52

I know that forums aren't representative of the general population, but there are a sufficient number of problems reported on forums to suggest to me that streaming live football on the BT Broadband network isn't yet a viable option, particularly as they'll be charging getting close to an additional £20 per month (for both Sky sports 1&2).

At that sort of price I can hold my hand up and admit I would be one of those belly-aching if I started having streaming or general picture quality issues.

wwwebber · 30-06-2010, 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyf94

I know that forums aren't representative of the general population, but there are a sufficient number of problems reported on forums to suggest to me that streaming live football on the BT Broadband network isn't yet a viable option, particularly as they'll be charging getting close to an additional £20 per month (for both Sky sports 1&2).

At that sort of price I can hold my hand up and admit I would be one of those belly-aching if I started having streaming or general picture quality issues.

You recognised that forums arent representative and then went on to use them to back your opinion up anyway

If you listened to forums then Sky, Virgin and even Freeview cant be counted upon to watch TV

andyf94 · 30-06-2010, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwwebber

You recognised that forums arent representative and then went on to use them to back your opinion up anyway

Back up my own experience - to be accurate - read my previous post, and where's the problem with that? where am I supposed to get 'hard facts' about the number of temporary glitches internet users suffer on a daily basis

The whole point about paying for live sport, is just that, it's 'live'. Any kind of drop out or streaming issues will kill the experience - otherwise I'd just sign up to a service that offers a delayed broadcast. It's bad enough watching a stuttering VOD programme/film, let alone live action

wwwebber · 30-06-2010, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyf94

Back up my own experience - to be accurate - read my previous post, and where's the problem with that? where am I supposed to get 'hard facts' about the number of temporary glitches internet users suffer on a daily basis

The whole point about paying for live sport, is just that, it's 'live'. Any kind of drop out or streaming issues will kill the experience - otherwise I'd just sign up to a service that offers a delayed broadcast. It's bad enough watching a stuttering VOD programme/film, let alone live action

I'm not doubting what your experience has been. I had problems with my tv signal before I got my aerial changed a couple of weeks ago but I don't brand Freeview as unsuitable to watch live TV - see what I'm getting at ?.

If you have stuttering VOD then you have a problem so call BT and get it sorted.

lowebb · 30-06-2010, 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwwebber

BT dont stream any channels. All of the supposed "channels" that you refer to are VOD based and are triggered by the viewer. There's no concept of switching over to a BT channel and seeing whats currently on because it doesnt work like that.

I remember a Honda channel which was streamed live (I dont have my BT Vision box hooked up currently to see whats there)

wwwebber · 30-06-2010, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowebb

I remember a Honda channel which was streamed live (I dont have my BT Vision box hooked up currently to see whats there)

It's still there and it's VOD. I went in twice and it started from the beginning both times - so it's not a real channel I'm afraid - it's just interactive VOD.

mocksah · 30-06-2010, 20:39

It launches 1st Aug but is available to order from tomorrow, give BT a call from 10am to get the prices

andyf94 · 30-06-2010, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwwebber

I'm not doubting what your experience has been. I had problems with my tv signal before I got my aerial changed a couple of weeks ago but I don't brand Freeview as unsuitable to watch live TV - see what I'm getting at ?.

If you have stuttering VOD then you have a problem so call BT and get it sorted.

What's your problem...you spoiling for an argument, or just bored?? You only have to surf various forums to understand that there are numerous streaming problems on the broadband infrastructure in the UK, particularly at peak times. That isn't going to make for a satisfying experience for a premium live football service.

When I get a stuttering picture on VOD I can usually clear it by re-setting either my ethernet adaptors, Vision box or hub. Or, I can follow your suggestion, and spend 30 minutes or more in a queue to be given instructions to do what I would have done anyway. And I could call them every time a picture stutters.....er no...perhaps not.

Comparing problems with terrestrial broadcasting and ADSL is not reasonable, the technologies are completely different.

wwwebber · 30-06-2010, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyf94

What's your problem...you spoiling for an argument, or just bored?? You only have to surf various forums to understand that there are numerous streaming problems on the broadband infrastructure in the UK, particularly at peak times. That isn't going to make for a satisfying experience for a premium live football service.

When I get a stuttering picture on VOD I can usually clear it by re-setting either my ethernet adaptors, Vision box or hub. Or, I can follow your suggestion, and spend 30 minutes or more in a queue to be given instructions to do what I would have done anyway. And I could call them every time a picture stutters.....er no...perhaps not.

Comparing problems with terrestrial broadcasting and ADSL is not reasonable, the technologies are completely different.

No problem here. You seem to misunderstand the basic functionality of BTVision which is the use of QOS which makes peak times, congestion etc irrelevent by guaranteeing the data stream at all times. Not really anything to do with BB infrastructure I'm afraid - if your line can do 2meg and you're with BT then you're in.

You may well have read about streaming problems all over the internet (iplayer etc) but they don't use dedicated networks or QOS like BTVision does.

VOD on BTVision isnt supposed to stutter at all - you have a problem so get it sorted.

andyf94 · 30-06-2010, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwwebber

No problem here. You seem to misunderstand the basic functionality of BTVision

VOD on BTVision isnt supposed to stutter at all - you have a problem so get it sorted.

No, I understand the concept, it's just that I'm realistic enough to know that concept's and reality are 2 completely different things. It would be interesting to know why BT made the decision NOT to stream the football, it would surely have been cheaper, so other considerations apply.

I don't have a problem, my line synch's at over 11MB so I wouldn't have a problem for the majority of the time. However, I'm still prone to occassional temporary 'issues' where the quality of VOD isn't great, it isn't huge, but enough for it to be something to consider if BT had decided to stream the football.

I'm very satisfied with the BT package, but adult enough to know that there are issues with it. I'm also adult enough to know if I need to get something fixed..but thanks for the advice, not sure I'll take the advice of someone who thinks that HD won't replace SD though

MAW · 01-07-2010, 07:31

Might all be irrelevant anyway, we've just had Mr BT Vision on the today programming, Sky have just jacked up the wholesale price of the channels, apparently

For those above who say Sky don't sit back and watch the competitors, congratulations, you are right.

28-06-2010, 11:45	#1
wwwebber Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Nottingham Posts: 3,536	Sky Sports 1 & 2 available from Aug 1st http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10430920.stm Good news for choice etc. No pricing yet though . Neither do we know how they will be delivered. One in the eye for the doubters - you know who you are

28-06-2010, 12:52	#2
scotty2808 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 435	Will look forward to seeing the pricing. Also concerned about the transmission quality and will wait to hear about it. Hopefully it'll be better than ESPN.

28-06-2010, 12:53	#3
frankie_baby Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,077	We do know how it'll be delivered, its been revealed by ofcom that BT have acquired the 2 channel slots that the BBC/arquiva were selling together

28-06-2010, 12:58	#4
wwwebber Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Nottingham Posts: 3,536	Quote: Originally Posted by frankie_baby We do know how it'll be delivered, its been revealed by ofcom that BT have acquired the 2 channel slots that the BBC/arquiva were selling together Yeah they'll be on Freeview - I've had it confirmed elsewhere too. I guess that means only BTVision subscribers can view these channels - unless BT sub them out to TUTV etc as well. Not sure.

28-06-2010, 12:59	#5
scotty2808 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 435	As per frankie's comments. A transmission deal was announced a while back www... First link from google... Link to press statement on BT website

28-06-2010, 13:03	#6
wwwebber Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Nottingham Posts: 3,536	Quote: Originally Posted by scotty2808 As per frankie's comments. A transmission deal was announced a while back www... First link from google... Link to press statement on BT website Cheers - I missed that one altogether

28-06-2010, 14:12	#7
lowebb Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Belfast Posts: 451	Why oh why are BT Vision not streaming these over their QoS IP bandwidth? Surely purchasing DTT bandwidth is a large additional cost which it doesnt need

28-06-2010, 16:05	#8
tghe-retford Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Retford Posts: 20,464	Quote: Originally Posted by lowebb Why oh why are BT Vision not streaming these over their QoS IP bandwidth? Surely purchasing DTT bandwidth is a large additional cost which it doesnt need I bet it's something to do with Arqiva, or at least a desire to launch more pay TV on DTT. Worthy of note is that Arqiva partnered with BSkyB in persuading Ofcom to allow BSkyB to launch a pay TV platform on DTT. Read of that what you will - just better hope BSkyB doesn't take BT as a major threat, because BSkyB does not do standing back and allowing competitors to contribute to its churn rate.

28-06-2010, 17:57	#9
frankie_baby Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,077	Quote: Originally Posted by lowebb Why oh why are BT Vision not streaming these over their QoS IP bandwidth? Surely purchasing DTT bandwidth is a large additional cost which it doesnt need Because broadcasting live streaming channels requires additional equipment to be installed at the exchanges and doing that for all exchanges in the country would take a Lou of time and cost a Lot of money

29-06-2010, 00:20	#10
agm2002 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 512	Quote: Originally Posted by frankie_baby Because broadcasting live streaming channels requires additional equipment to be installed at the exchanges and doing that for all exchanges in the country would take a Lou of time and cost a Lot of money It seems a bit silly though, I stream live Baseball in HD quality (I say HD but its the internet, it is better than SD though and certainly better than ESPN) through my PS3 and that comes from US servers. Can't see why BT can't provide SD channels through streaming.

29-06-2010, 07:29	#11
andyf94 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sunny South Coast Posts: 298	Quote: Originally Posted by agm2002 It seems a bit silly though, I stream live Baseball in HD quality (I say HD but its the internet, it is better than SD though and certainly better than ESPN) through my PS3 and that comes from US servers. Can't see why BT can't provide SD channels through streaming. But we're talking LIVE football, and I do not want my ethernet adaptors, my BTVision box or my broadband connection to go 'tots' up just as ###### ####### (insert own footballer ) lets go of a 30 yard screamer!! I was watching an on demand film last night and had to re-set the adaptor 3 or 4 times. That doesn't sit well with live action

29-06-2010, 13:13	#12
lowebb Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Belfast Posts: 451	Quote: Originally Posted by frankie_baby Because broadcasting live streaming channels requires additional equipment to be installed at the exchanges and doing that for all exchanges in the country would take a Lou of time and cost a Lot of money Nope not buying it, BT already stream channels so no new tech required. They already have the tech to set up QoS tunnels. The fact its live is neither here nor there In terms of you having to reset adaptors, I'm not sure why, I've never had to do anything like that

29-06-2010, 14:20	#13
wwwebber Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Nottingham Posts: 3,536	Quote: Originally Posted by lowebb Nope not buying it, BT already stream channels so no new tech required. They already have the tech to set up QoS tunnels. The fact its live is neither here nor there BT dont stream any channels. All of the supposed "channels" that you refer to are VOD based and are triggered by the viewer. There's no concept of switching over to a BT channel and seeing whats currently on because it doesnt work like that.

29-06-2010, 17:11	#14
stuntmaster Forum Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Southampton - Hannington - TX Posts: 4,878	Quote: Originally Posted by wwwebber BT dont stream any channels. All of the supposed "channels" that you refer to are VOD based and are triggered by the viewer. There's no concept of switching over to a BT channel and seeing whats currently on because it doesnt work like that. However lowebb is correct in stating the tech is already here, they just haven't enabled multicasting on the master head end. Thus as you say wwwebber its not streaming, but it can be done BT just have not enabled it. why is anyones guess. if talk talk/tiscali/homechoice can do it then why hasn't BT? perhaps it's something to do with needing a minimum bandwidth? who knows.

29-06-2010, 18:52	#15
andyf94 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sunny South Coast Posts: 298	I know that forums aren't representative of the general population, but there are a sufficient number of problems reported on forums to suggest to me that streaming live football on the BT Broadband network isn't yet a viable option, particularly as they'll be charging getting close to an additional £20 per month (for both Sky sports 1&2). At that sort of price I can hold my hand up and admit I would be one of those belly-aching if I started having streaming or general picture quality issues.

30-06-2010, 08:59	#16
wwwebber Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Nottingham Posts: 3,536	Quote: Originally Posted by andyf94 I know that forums aren't representative of the general population, but there are a sufficient number of problems reported on forums to suggest to me that streaming live football on the BT Broadband network isn't yet a viable option, particularly as they'll be charging getting close to an additional £20 per month (for both Sky sports 1&2). At that sort of price I can hold my hand up and admit I would be one of those belly-aching if I started having streaming or general picture quality issues. You recognised that forums arent representative and then went on to use them to back your opinion up anyway If you listened to forums then Sky, Virgin and even Freeview cant be counted upon to watch TV

30-06-2010, 13:13	#17
andyf94 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sunny South Coast Posts: 298	Quote: Originally Posted by wwwebber You recognised that forums arent representative and then went on to use them to back your opinion up anyway Back up my own experience - to be accurate - read my previous post, and where's the problem with that? where am I supposed to get 'hard facts' about the number of temporary glitches internet users suffer on a daily basis The whole point about paying for live sport, is just that, it's 'live'. Any kind of drop out or streaming issues will kill the experience - otherwise I'd just sign up to a service that offers a delayed broadcast. It's bad enough watching a stuttering VOD programme/film, let alone live action

30-06-2010, 13:44	#18
wwwebber Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Nottingham Posts: 3,536	Quote: Originally Posted by andyf94 Back up my own experience - to be accurate - read my previous post, and where's the problem with that? where am I supposed to get 'hard facts' about the number of temporary glitches internet users suffer on a daily basis The whole point about paying for live sport, is just that, it's 'live'. Any kind of drop out or streaming issues will kill the experience - otherwise I'd just sign up to a service that offers a delayed broadcast. It's bad enough watching a stuttering VOD programme/film, let alone live action I'm not doubting what your experience has been. I had problems with my tv signal before I got my aerial changed a couple of weeks ago but I don't brand Freeview as unsuitable to watch live TV - see what I'm getting at ?. If you have stuttering VOD then you have a problem so call BT and get it sorted.

30-06-2010, 14:09	#19
lowebb Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Belfast Posts: 451	Quote: Originally Posted by wwwebber BT dont stream any channels. All of the supposed "channels" that you refer to are VOD based and are triggered by the viewer. There's no concept of switching over to a BT channel and seeing whats currently on because it doesnt work like that. I remember a Honda channel which was streamed live (I dont have my BT Vision box hooked up currently to see whats there)

30-06-2010, 15:56	#20
wwwebber Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Nottingham Posts: 3,536	Quote: Originally Posted by lowebb I remember a Honda channel which was streamed live (I dont have my BT Vision box hooked up currently to see whats there) It's still there and it's VOD. I went in twice and it started from the beginning both times - so it's not a real channel I'm afraid - it's just interactive VOD.

30-06-2010, 20:39	#21
mocksah Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 4	It launches 1st Aug but is available to order from tomorrow, give BT a call from 10am to get the prices

DS Forums

Sky Sports 1 & 2 available from Aug 1st

30-06-2010, 20:57	#22
andyf94 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sunny South Coast Posts: 298	Quote: Originally Posted by wwwebber I'm not doubting what your experience has been. I had problems with my tv signal before I got my aerial changed a couple of weeks ago but I don't brand Freeview as unsuitable to watch live TV - see what I'm getting at ?. If you have stuttering VOD then you have a problem so call BT and get it sorted. What's your problem...you spoiling for an argument, or just bored?? You only have to surf various forums to understand that there are numerous streaming problems on the broadband infrastructure in the UK, particularly at peak times. That isn't going to make for a satisfying experience for a premium live football service. When I get a stuttering picture on VOD I can usually clear it by re-setting either my ethernet adaptors, Vision box or hub. Or, I can follow your suggestion, and spend 30 minutes or more in a queue to be given instructions to do what I would have done anyway. And I could call them every time a picture stutters.....er no...perhaps not. Comparing problems with terrestrial broadcasting and ADSL is not reasonable, the technologies are completely different.

30-06-2010, 22:39	#23
wwwebber Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Nottingham Posts: 3,536	Quote: Originally Posted by andyf94 What's your problem...you spoiling for an argument, or just bored?? You only have to surf various forums to understand that there are numerous streaming problems on the broadband infrastructure in the UK, particularly at peak times. That isn't going to make for a satisfying experience for a premium live football service. When I get a stuttering picture on VOD I can usually clear it by re-setting either my ethernet adaptors, Vision box or hub. Or, I can follow your suggestion, and spend 30 minutes or more in a queue to be given instructions to do what I would have done anyway. And I could call them every time a picture stutters.....er no...perhaps not. Comparing problems with terrestrial broadcasting and ADSL is not reasonable, the technologies are completely different. No problem here. You seem to misunderstand the basic functionality of BTVision which is the use of QOS which makes peak times, congestion etc irrelevent by guaranteeing the data stream at all times. Not really anything to do with BB infrastructure I'm afraid - if your line can do 2meg and you're with BT then you're in. You may well have read about streaming problems all over the internet (iplayer etc) but they don't use dedicated networks or QOS like BTVision does. VOD on BTVision isnt supposed to stutter at all - you have a problem so get it sorted.

30-06-2010, 23:28	#24
andyf94 Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sunny South Coast Posts: 298	Quote: Originally Posted by wwwebber No problem here. You seem to misunderstand the basic functionality of BTVision VOD on BTVision isnt supposed to stutter at all - you have a problem so get it sorted. No, I understand the concept, it's just that I'm realistic enough to know that concept's and reality are 2 completely different things. It would be interesting to know why BT made the decision NOT to stream the football, it would surely have been cheaper, so other considerations apply. I don't have a problem, my line synch's at over 11MB so I wouldn't have a problem for the majority of the time. However, I'm still prone to occassional temporary 'issues' where the quality of VOD isn't great, it isn't huge, but enough for it to be something to consider if BT had decided to stream the football. I'm very satisfied with the BT package, but adult enough to know that there are issues with it. I'm also adult enough to know if I need to get something fixed..but thanks for the advice, not sure I'll take the advice of someone who thinks that HD won't replace SD though

01-07-2010, 07:31	#25
MAW Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 28,577	Might all be irrelevant anyway, we've just had Mr BT Vision on the today programming, Sky have just jacked up the wholesale price of the channels, apparently For those above who say Sky don't sit back and watch the competitors, congratulations, you are right.