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Channels Showing Full Widescreen Films
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Libretio
22-06-2014
Originally Posted by DVDfever:
“What's "picture frame" format?”

The film was broadcast 4:3 with borders on all four sides of the frame. This might not have been so noticeable on most sets due to overscan, but the 'full' image did indeed look like a picture frame within the 4:3 screen...
Braindead2011
22-06-2014
The Outsiders (True Movies 2) Shown OAR in a version subtitled 'The Complete Novel'. I noticed the ending was different to the version last broadcast in a 1:85 print on Channel 4 a decade or so ago.
eyeblink
23-06-2014
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“The example you cited (WAKE IN FRIGHT) sounds absolutely horrendous, but that doesn't weaken the argument. No matter how horrific the cruelty, if the filmmaker wasn't responsible for instigating it, they are absolved of responsibility. It would be interesting to know if this incident led to tighter regulations on kangaroo hunts, since this kind of filmmaking is essential in highlighting such criminal stupidity. In fact, the director has said the Australian equivalent of the RSPCA insisted this footage be used because it would alert the public to what was happening in the outback on a nightly basis. That amounts to hugely responsible filmmaking by anyone's standards.”

I'm with you on this. I don't believe you should genuinely kill animals for entertainment, though it does lead me to ambivalence when films of genuine merit (ANDREI RUBLEV, COCKFIGHTER) contain real and unambiguous animal cruelty which was in the control of the filmmakers.

In this case, it's not the BBFC making a judgement on perceived harm, but an actual law on the statute books - the Cinematograph (Animals) Act of 1937. There are cases where the BBFC doesn't want to cut a film but have to because it has to. The two films I mention above are in breach of British law. Passing examples of killings where it is a "quick clean kill" is their interpretation of said law.

As for WAKE IN FRIGHT, the most graphic footage taken on that kangaroo hunt didn't end up on screen. I'm not sure that giving that film an 18 is excessive: the scene is intentionally disturbing but not much more graphic than similar scenes in WALKABOUT, made around the same time, which amongst other things shows you a dead animal's stomach being slit.


[EL CID]

Originally Posted by Libretio:
“That is sad to hear, but miracles DO happen, so fingers crossed for the future. In the meantime, the 2.35:1 ratio from 35mm elements is perfectly viable, since that's what was captured on the original negative.”

I once saw a 70mm print of EL CID which had almost entirely faded to pink throughout. These days, if they did a wholesale restoration they probably wouldn't make any 70mm prints, just put out 4K DCPs - shame. (cf. WEST SIDE STORY and LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, both shot in 65mm and recently reissued in 4K digital only.)

Originally Posted by Libretio:
“Yes, indeedie - SOMEBODY KILLED HER HUSBAND was broadcast in the scope ratio on TV for what appears to be the first time, in any country, ever. I can find no other reference to this outside the IMDb, and they don't count as a reliable source. The fact they got it right in this instance is a bonus.

But the main issue is that the film appears to have been shot in Super 35 - in 1978! That's a full five or six years before the format was resurrected in the early 1980's!! I discounted the idea of it being shot in 2-perf (Techniscope) by comparing the Movie Mix version with online 4:3 prints, and the cropping/reframing is typical of S35 origination - cropping from Techniscope would have been very different indeed.

Absolutely astonishing. A small bit of history rewritten.”

A while back, I did pass you details of another 70s Scope film which was effectively made in Super 35 before the process was invented - the Polish film THE HOUR-GLASS SANATORIUM, which is opened up to 1.78:1 on DVD.

Originally Posted by Libretio:
“Also, THG is nothing more than a remake of BATTLE ROYALE. I've heard people argue blind that it isn't, but it is. The central premise is exactly the same. The sequels might expand the story, but the basic idea of carting off kids to an isolated spot and having them kill each other until only one remains is BR down to a T.

So there.”

FWIW Suzanne Collins wasn't aware of BATTLE ROYALE when she wrote the novel. BR and THG are YA variations of a theme that isn't original with either. See also PUNISHMENT PARK for example. Last week I saw the 1932 version of THE MOST DANGEROUS GAME, remade and ripped off many times since. That's the likely cinematic source for this storyline, though it's with adults rather than kids, and it was based itself on a short story published in the 1920s.
eyeblink
23-06-2014
Originally Posted by Braindead2011:
“The Outsiders (True Movies 2) Shown OAR in a version subtitled 'The Complete Novel'. I noticed the ending was different to the version last broadcast in a 1:85 print on Channel 4 a decade or so ago.”

It's an extended cut that Coppola put together, restoring the scenes that he'd deleted for the theatrical release. It also replaces much of Carmine Coppola's score with rock 'n roll songs.

This version has been released on DVD.
pad_ehh
23-06-2014
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“The film was broadcast 4:3 with borders on all four sides of the frame. This might not have been so noticeable on most sets due to overscan, but the 'full' image did indeed look like a picture frame within the 4:3 screen...”

Speaking of which, last night's tribute showing of "Rik Mayall Presents" on ITV had what appeared to be a widescreen picture letterboxed and then squashed into a 4:3 frame resulting in black bars all round, a terrible soft picture and a white border down the left hand side of the screen that was very distracting. an't believe they didn't notice this and do something about it before broadcast or at an ad break. Why it wasn't being shown in full widescreen I don't know.
Libretio
23-06-2014
Originally Posted by eyeblink:
“...it does lead me to ambivalence when films of genuine merit (ANDREI RUBLEV, COCKFIGHTER) contain real and unambiguous animal cruelty which was in the control of the filmmakers.”

I honestly don't understand why filmmakers of 'merit' can't see that what they're doing is immoral, and ought to be criminal. The director of AMORES PERROS, for example, wanted to depict the ugly reality of dog-fighting and used filmmaking techniques to simulate these activities, accomplished via editing, sound effects and a liberal smattering of Kensington Gore. By all accounts, the dogs were treated like royalty during production and went home at the end of it having had a wonderful time! No filmmaker has EVER had to trip horses deliberately or stage genuine cock-fights to make their point.

Originally Posted by eyeblink:
“Passing examples of killings where it is a "quick clean kill" is their interpretation of said law.”

It would be interesting to read the wording of the law - I assume the BBFC has taken legal advice on this - because it really shouldn't matter whether the kill was quick or slow. It's the fact that someone has committed the act for nothing more than an effect in a piece of entertainment that sticks in my craw. As much as we love 'em, films are just films - not worth killing a human or animal, and certainly not worth preserving such imagery for the sake of 'history'.

You were right when you said this subject gave rise to ambivalent feelings!

Originally Posted by eyeblink:
“A while back, I did pass you details of another 70s Scope film which was effectively made in Super 35 before the process was invented - the Polish film THE HOUR-GLASS SANATORIUM, which is opened up to 1.78:1 on DVD.”

Was that in this thread, or did you contact me via the online scope filmography?

Originally Posted by eyeblink:
“FWIW Suzanne Collins wasn't aware of BATTLE ROYALE when she wrote the novel. BR and THG are YA variations of a theme that isn't original with either. See also PUNISHMENT PARK for example. Last week I saw the 1932 version of THE MOST DANGEROUS GAME, remade and ripped off many times since. That's the likely cinematic source for this storyline, though it's with adults rather than kids, and it was based itself on a short story published in the 1920s.”

Oh, there's very little that's new under the sun, I agree (cf. the narrative similarities between SPEED and the 1975 Japanese film THE BULLET TRAIN, which has gone completely unacknowledged by the former film's writers - not that I think they 'stole' anything, but they HAVE been made aware of the similarities*). But it IS a fact that both BR and THG use young people as the protagonists, and that the reasons for their predicament - a decree issued by governments increasingly intolerant of their rebellious young population - can't be denied. I've even heard no less a luminary than Mark Kermode argue that they aren't the same, which almost made me roll off my seat!

*I recently concocted a story in which a prominent heart surgeon kills an intruder at his home who turns out to be the son of a local gangster. Said gangster targets the surgeon's family for elimination. Sounds great, right? Denzel Washington in the lead role, with an equally prominent actor as the villain. It can't lose! But what should turn up at my local cattleplex about a year later but COLD IN JULY, which is exactly the same story, based on a novel published in 1989!! I thought I'd hit the Hollywood jackpot, only to find I'd unwittingly copied someone else's story. Talk about serendipity!!...
Fran Blakes
23-06-2014
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“The film was broadcast 4:3 with borders on all four sides of the frame. This might not have been so noticeable on most sets due to overscan, but the 'full' image did indeed look like a picture frame within the 4:3 screen...”

Having downloaded and cropped the video it looks more like 1:66:1?

http://postimg.org/image/l3hr10yvh/

The reliable* IMDB say 1.85:1
*
Fran Blakes
23-06-2014
Originally Posted by Paddy C:
“Speaking of which, last night's tribute showing of "Rik Mayall Presents" on ITV had what appeared to be a widescreen picture letterboxed and then squashed into a 4:3 frame resulting in black bars all round, a terrible soft picture and a white border down the left hand side of the screen that was very distracting. an't believe they didn't notice this and do something about it before broadcast or at an ad break. Why it wasn't being shown in full widescreen I don't know.”

I too was disappointed - having to use one of the "zoom" modes on SD channel - the zoom wouldn't work properly on the HD channel.
DVDfever
23-06-2014
Originally Posted by Paddy C:
“Speaking of which, last night's tribute showing of "Rik Mayall Presents" on ITV had what appeared to be a widescreen picture letterboxed and then squashed into a 4:3 frame resulting in black bars all round, a terrible soft picture and a white border down the left hand side of the screen that was very distracting. an't believe they didn't notice this and do something about it before broadcast or at an ad break. Why it wasn't being shown in full widescreen I don't know.”

And they claimed it was remastered in HD, judging by the 'HD' addition on ITV HD. Certainly didn't look it.

Originally Posted by Fran Blakes:
“I too was disappointed - having to use one of the "zoom" modes on SD channel - the zoom wouldn't work properly on the HD channel.”

I had to zoom in, but as the whole thing was windowboxed in a 16:9 frame, I could only use the option on my Panasonic TV which zoomed in all the way round (Zoom 2). According to IMDB, it was shot 1.66:1, so really it should've been remastered as 1.66:1 within a 16:9 frame, very much like Cinema Paradiso.
eyeblink
23-06-2014
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“Was that in this thread, or did you contact me via the online scope filmography?”

I emailed you directly.
Libretio
23-06-2014
Originally Posted by eyeblink:
“I emailed you directly.”

It was so long ago, I didn't realise that was you! And I'd forgotten all about it. For some reason, I still have that particular film listed as Techniscope, but I'll take another look at it. Many thanks for that reminder.

By the way, I'm working on another project, intended for publication, which will probably render my weekly listings here entirely irrelevant. Can't say anymore about it now, but let's just say it involves lots and LOTS and LOTS of films, and will probably take another couple of years to complete. As the bishop said to the actress: Yes, it really IS that big...
DVDfever
24-06-2014
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“The film was broadcast 4:3 with borders on all four sides of the frame. This might not have been so noticeable on most sets due to overscan, but the 'full' image did indeed look like a picture frame within the 4:3 screen...”

Ah, I know that as windowboxing.
alternate
24-06-2014
Are there not about half a decent versions/dubs of the raid? Then there were different scores based on region. I wonder which we will get.
mike65
24-06-2014
• Rambo III (ITV 1)*

Weird stuff going on ( watching on UTV HD) its been OAR, 16:9 and picture frame all in the last 10 minutes!
theonlyweeman
25-06-2014
Originally Posted by alternate:
“Are there not about half a decent versions/dubs of the raid? Then there were different scores based on region. I wonder which we will get.”

There's the original Indonesian version, then there's the English dub. Both are available with the original score and a re-done American score.

I believe Momentum used the original score theatrically, but the American score on home video, but don't quote me on that...
Libretio
25-06-2014
Originally Posted by theonlyweeman:
“I believe Momentum used the original score theatrically, but the American score on home video, but don't quote me on that...”

Cough! Splutter!! What's this? The score on the Blu-ray version may not be the original?! I hadn't heard about this, and will be livid about it if that's true. I just happened to watch this again the other night...
DVDfever
25-06-2014
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“Cough! Splutter!! What's this? The score on the Blu-ray version may not be the original?! I hadn't heard about this, and will be livid about it if that's true. I just happened to watch this again the other night...”

Since you quoted theonlyweeman's post, does that mean you quoted him on that?
Libretio
25-06-2014
Originally Posted by DVDfever:
“Since you quoted theonlyweeman's post, does that mean you quoted him on that? ”

I did, and I'm happy to take the consequences. Unless, of course, he's a 6-foot-tall bruiser, in which case, I take it all back!!

I did a bit more digging and the UK home vid version is indeed missing the original Indonesian score. Bugger.
Libretio
27-06-2014
(Unless otherwise indicated, all films in the following list were projected at 2.35:1 prior to 1971, and at 2.39:1 thereafter)

* = May not be screened in all areas (check your local listings).

Scope and 3-D movies across the Freeview platform for the coming week (28 June - 4 July):


Saturday (28 June)

• Bridget Jones's Diary (ITV 2)
• Buried (ITV 4)
• Dragonfly Squadron (movies4men) [3-D] [1.85:1]
• The Edge (Movie Mix)
• Gone (ITV 1)
• Independence Day (Film 4)
• Jumper (Film 4)
• Hard Candy (BBC 2)
• The Karate Kid (Film 4)
• License to Wed (ITV 2)
• Midway (ITV 4)
• A Place in Hell [Un posto all'inferno] (movies4men)
• Salt in the Wound [Il dito nella piaga] (movies4men)
• Seven Brides for Seven Brothers (5 USA) [2.55:1]
• The Simpsons Movie (Film 4)
• Star Trek: First Contact (E4)
• Terminal Velocity (C4)
• Transformers (C4)


Sunday (29 June)

• Bedazzled (Film 4)
• The Black Dahlia (C4)
• A Bullet for the General [El Chucho: Quien sabe?] (movies4men)
• Carambola (movies4men)
• Die Hard (Film 4)
• Dirty Mary Crazy Larry (Movie Mix)
• Ever After (Film 4)
• The Green Berets (5 USA)
• The Island (ITV 4)
• Keoma [Keoma il vendicatore] (movies4men)
• Letters to Juliet (C4)
• Mars Attacks! (ITV 4)
• The Matrix (ITV 2)
• Must Love Dogs (ITV 2)
• Nanny McPhee & the Big Bang (ITV 2)
• Stargate (5*)
• Starman (Movie Mix)
• Stepmom (C5)
• What to Expect When You're Expecting (C5)


Monday (30 June)

• As far As My Feet Will Carry Me [So weit die Fόίe tragen] (movies4men)
• Final Destination 3 (Film 4)
• Mindhunters (Movie Mix)
• Mission Impossible (Film 4)
• Moonfleet (More 4) [2.55:1]
• Suicide Commando [Comando suicida] (movies4men)


Tuesday (1 July)

• 12 Rounds (Film 4)
• Conan the Barbarian (Film 4)
• Don't Wait Django... Shoot! [Non aspettare Django, spara] (movies4men)
• The Enemy Below (Film 4)
• The Fighting Fist of Shangai Joe [Il mio nome θ Shangai Joe] (movies4men)
• Gun Fury (Film 4) [3-D] [1.85:1]
• Hour of the Gun (5 USA)
• The Keep (Film 4)
• Never So Few (More 4)
• Over Her Dead Body (5*)
• The Phantom (Film 4)
• Rabbit-Proof Fence (BBC 4)


Wednesday (2 July)

• Battle Cry (Film 4) [2.55:1]
• Blackie the Pirate [Il corsaro nero] (movies4men)
• Cliffhanger (ITV 4)
• Jumper (Film 4)
• Night at the Museum 2 [Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian] (E4)
• Our Family Wedding (C4)
• Quantum of Solace (ITV 2)
• RED (Film 4)
• The Robe (Film 4) [2.55:1]
• Tron (BBC 3) [3-D]


Thursday (3 July)

• Apt Pupil (Movie Mix)
• Buried ITV 4)
• Carry On Admiral (movies4men)
• Conqueror of Corinth [Il conquistatore di Corinto] (movies4men)
• Crooks in Cloisters (Film 4)
• Hellfighters (Film 4)
• The Last Frontier (Film 4)
• Quantum of Solace (ITV 2)
• Sands of the Kalahari (5 USA)
• The Simpsons Movie (Film 4)
• Texas Killing Fields (ITV 4)
• The Three Musketeers (Film 4) [3-D]


Friday (4 July)

• Anna Karenina (Movie Mix)
• Bridget Jones's Diary (ITV 2)
• Caesar the Conqueror [Giulio Cesare: Il conquistatore delle gallie] (movies4men)
• Fame (4 Music)
• Fracture (Film 4)
• Howards End (Film 4)
• Independence Day (Film 4)
• Mars Attacks! (ITV 4)
• Premonition (More 4)
• Romulus and the Sabines [Il ratto delle Sabine] (movies4men)
• Scre4m (5*)
• Star Trek: First Contact (E4)
DVDfever
27-06-2014
Anyone know if 21 Jump Street was shown OAR on C5, please?
theonlyweeman
27-06-2014
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“I did, and I'm happy to take the consequences. Unless, of course, he's a 6-foot-tall bruiser, in which case, I take it all back!!

I did a bit more digging and the UK home vid version is indeed missing the original Indonesian score. Bugger.”

You're fine, I'm not going to kill you... this time.

IIRC the UK release has an exclusive second commentary not present on most (if not all) foreign releases, so you haven't been completely screwed. Although if you feel massively compelled the US release is AB locked, and includes both the R-rated and unrated cuts with both original and American scores. (I don't know if you can play the original score for both cuts, but I'd assume so...)
Libretio
28-06-2014
Originally Posted by DVDfever:
“Anyone know if 21 Jump Street was shown OAR on C5, please?”

Can't help you with that one, I'm afraid. But don't worry - there'll be PLENTY of opportunities to check it out, given the millions of times it'll be repeated in the coming months...

Originally Posted by theonlyweeman:
“You're fine, I'm not going to kill you... this time. ”

Thank gawd for that...

Originally Posted by theonlyweeman:
“Although if you feel massively compelled the US release is AB locked, and includes both the R-rated and unrated cuts with both original and American scores. (I don't know if you can play the original score for both cuts, but I'd assume so...)”

I checked, and you CAN play the original score on both cuts. With money tight, not sure whether I should splash out on this one...
Braindead2011
30-06-2014
Charade was shown on a channel called FilmonTV, it was shown in a picture box at roughly 1:85.1 although the picture panned to the right a tad.
Libretio
04-07-2014
Ladies and gents, I'm afraid I'm going to be taking another sabbatical from the lists for about a month, maybe six weeks. I'm so busy with other things at the moment, I'm throwing the lists together at the last possible moment, which leaves it open to mistakes and omissions. If I'm I'm going to continue doing this on a regular basis, I need to be able to give it my FULL attention, not some half-arsed bit of slapdashery.

Apologies for any disappointment caused. And dry those tears - the listings WILL be back in due course.
mattyb
12-07-2014
Once again Libertio, you are honoured for your continued commitment to this forum. As you're taking a well deserved break, and as I started this forum a few years back, its only fair that I put some effort back in by filling in for you with the listings, so if I've missed any films on this list, apologies in advanced. I've also added information to which films are likely to be broadcast in their TV version due to being shown prior to the watershed



Unless otherwise indicated, all films in the following list were projected at 2.35:1 prior to 1971, and at 2.39:1 thereafter)

* = May not be screened in all areas (check your local listings).
** = TV Version

Scope and 3-D movies across the Freeview platform for the coming week (12 July - 18 July):


Saturday (12 July)

• The Cook, The Thief, His Wife & His Lover (Film4)
• Red Eye (VIVA)
• Rio (Film4) [3-D]
• The Wild and the Innocent (5 USA)
• Four Fast Guns (Movies4Men)
• Zulu (Film4) [2.20:1]
• Open Season (5*) [1.85:1] [3-D]
• Australia (Film4) **
• Pearl Harbor (ITV2) [2.20:1] **
• Ghostbusters (5*) [2.20:1]
• The Aviator (MovieMix) [Poss TV Ver]
• Knight and Day (C4)
• Die Hard 2 [Die Hard 2: Die Harder] (Film4) [2.20:1]
• Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (BBC1)
• The Matrix Reloaded (ITV2)
• The Shipping News (BBC2)
• The International (MovieMix)
• The Ruins (BBC1)

Sunday (13 July)

• Black Sheep (BBC2)
• Rushmore (C4)
• Final Destination 3 (Film4)
• Little Budda (MovieMix) [2.20:1] **
• Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea (5 USA)
• Planet of the Apes (1967) (Film4)
• Close Encounters of the Third Kind (5 USA) [2.20:1) **
• Avatar (Film4) [1.78:1] [3-D] **
• Hanover Street (MovieMix) [2.20:1] (Poss. TV Ver)
• Star Trek (Film4) **
• Titanic (C4) **
• Miss Congeniality 2: Armed and Fabulous (ITV2) **
• Hairspray (E4)
• Center Stage (MovieMix)
• Doom (ITV4)
• X-Men: Last Stand (Film4)
• Broken Arrow (MovieMix)
• The Matrix Revolutions (ITV2)
• Step Brothers (Five)
• The Final Destination (Film4) [3-D]
• Man of the Year (BBC1)


Monday (14 July)

• Goldeneye (ITV2)
• Robin Hood (2010) (Film4)
• Dodgeball: A True Underdog Story (5*)
• Identity (MovieMix)
• Friday the 13th (2009) (Film4)
• The Joneses (Film4)

Tuesday (15 July)

• Romancing The Stone (Film4) **
• The Proposal (BBC3)
• Made In Dagenham (BBC4)
• One Day (Film4)
• X2 (5*)
• The International (MovieMix)
• Born on the Forth of July (ITV4) [2.20:1]
• Vampires: Los Muertos (aka John Carpetner’s Vampires: Los Muertos) (Movies4Men)

Wednesday (16 July)

• The Badlanders (Film4) [Poss. TV Ver]
• The Quiller Memorandum (Film4)
• North West Frontier (BBC2)
• The Wild and the Innocent (5 USA)
• The Virgin Queen (Film4) [2.55:1]
• Hanover Street (MovieMix) [2.20:1] (Poss. TV Ver)
• Warlock (Film4)
• 17 Again (Film4) **
• The Golden Compass (E4)
• Shanghi Noon (BBC3)
• The Woman In Black (Film4)
• Elektra (5*)
• Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World (MovieMix)
• Surrogates (BBC1)
• Friday the 13th (E4)

Thursday (17 July)

• Basic Instinct 2 (Film4)
• Alfie (1966) (C4)
• Planet of the Apes (1967) (Film4)
• Lone Star State of Mind (aka Cowboys and Idiots) (MovieMix) **
• Evan Almighty (ITV2)
• Die Hard 2 [Die Hard 2: Die Harder] (Film4) [2.20:1]
• The Whole Wide World (True Entertainment)
• Broken Arrow (MovieMix)
• First Blood (ITV4)
• Vampires: Los Muertos (aka John Carpetner’s Vampires: Los Muertos) (Movies4Men)
• Identity (MovieMix)

Friday (18 July)

• I Know What You Did Last Summer (MovieMix)
• Somebody Killed Her Husband (MovieMix)
• Stagecoach (Film4)
• Anna Karenina (True Entertainment) **
• Funny Lady (MovieMix)
• The Great Sioux Massacre (Film4)
• Hanover Street (MovieMix) [2.20:1] **
• Flight of the Phoenix (2004) (Film4) **
• Don’t Say a Word (More4)
• Goldeneye (ITV2)
• Dirty Harry (ITV4)
• Bulletproof (5*)
• 10th & Wolf (True Entertainment)
• The Aviator (MovieMix)
• The Kingdom (ITV1)
• First Blood (ITV4)
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