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Channels Showing Full Widescreen Films
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DVDfever
12-01-2011
Originally Posted by grahamcrowden:
“BBC HD didn't show it.
They showed Raiders and Last Crusade but the week TOD was on clashed with some live show that BBC HD aired instead - rather conveniently I thought at the time.”

Ah, I remember seeing a trailer for it in 2.35:1 and getting hopeful at the time, but the broadcast was 4:3.

Quote:
“By now any of you viewing should know if its uncut.
I doubt its fully uncut but I wouldn't be surprised if there was perhaps a little bit more than the UK PG cut.

The list of cuts is quite extensive , but the main one shows the hand plunging into the guys chest and the shot of the heart being ripped out is missing - IIRC it cuts to the shot of the heart in the mans hand.”

Yep, that's what we got tonight. There was one cutaway in the middle of that (maybe a replacement shot to avoid a jarring edit?), but as soon as the fingers touched his chest, it went to that shot and then to showing the heart in his hand.

Originally Posted by mwardy:
“I'm not sure that it's been on BBC HD before. And I may not be remembering it very well, it being many years since I saw it at the cinema, but the heart ripping scene looked cut to me. Could be wrong about that though! If it was cut, I seem to recall it's because there was, and thus evidently still is, a certification issue.”

At 8pm they could get away with it if they have an uncut version as it'd only require a 12-cert at most (if it couldn't be re-rated as PG) and that's not an issue at that hour.[/quote]

On a different note, the subtitles were about 5 seconds ahead of the film after a while (although in sync at the start) then 10-15 seconds ahead, then disappeared, and are now about 5 seconds behind.
davidweller
12-01-2011
Originally Posted by grahamcrowden:
“Pulp Fiction is 2.35 .

Terminator 2 is also”

Terminator 2 was shot on Super35 which is roughly 4:3.

James Cameron and Van Ling (I think) prepared 2.35 and 4:3 versions from the negative.

It was not panned and scanned so in some scenes the 4:3 shows more picture information than the 2.35.
DVDfever
12-01-2011
Originally Posted by davidweller:
“Terminator 2 was shot on Super35 which is roughly 4:3.

James Cameron and Van Ling (I think) prepared 2.35 and 4:3 versions from the negative.”

He did that for The Abyss, not T2, from what I remember. JC even prefers his 4:3 version. I think he's quite mad and the 2.35:1 version is far better.

Quote:
“It was not panned and scanned so in some scenes the 4:3 shows more picture information than the 2.35.”

For T2, there's extra info top and bottom but the framing isn't as good and the CGI scenes (of which there are a fair few) die a slow death.
DVDfever
12-01-2011
Originally Posted by Kevin1960:
“Oh

Next Wednesday at 10pm there's Pulp Fiction ”

That's on BBC3, but it'll be DOG-free on BBC2 on Sunday 23rd Jan at the ridiculously late time of 11.25pm.
DVDfever
13-01-2011
Oh dear. Timecop in 16:9 on BBC1. Apparently it's in "high definition" on BBC1 HD, but what's the point in a cropped image?
bayards
13-01-2011
Although TCM show films in their correct ratio - it would be nice if they could cough up for an HD version of the channel so we could pick a bit more detail out of the films.....
Libretio
13-01-2011
Originally Posted by DVDfever:
“He did that for The Abyss, not T2, from what I remember. JC even prefers his 4:3 version.”

He's probably done it for every film, since he's famous for being a bit of a control freak. And he's quite open about using Super 35 for the various TV versions. He insists he only concentrates on the 2.35:1 frame during principal photography, but since his movies have very little 'widescreen' about them whatsoever, I tend not to believe him. James Cameron is not Movie God, despite his success, and despite what his followers may say about him. So there.

Oh, and Cameron said that he preferred the 4:3 version of THE ABYSS for TV back in the days when 16:9 was not available to the masses, made worse because of the inferior nature of the NTSC format in America. Now, with HD and 16:9 all the rage, I doubt he'd prefer viewers who care about such things to view anything other than the intended 2.35:1 version. He hasn't actually said as much (that I know of), but it would be silly of him to adhere to that old statement, given the way TV technology has advanced since then.
Libretio
13-01-2011
Shame about TIMECOP being cropped (and was it really in HD, I wonder, despite what the announcer said?), but at least ITV 4 'premiered' the full 2.35:1 version of JACKIE CHAN'S FIRST STRIKE. Dubbed, rescored, and missing about 30 minutes of the original Hong Kong print. A turd is still a turd, even when you can see the WHOLE turd...
pad_ehh
13-01-2011
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“He's probably done it for every film, since he's famous for being a bit of a control freak.... James Cameron is not Movie God, despite his success, and despite what his followers may say about him. So there. ”

He also prefers the 1.85:1 version of Avatar over the 2.35:1 version. So that's why we have to watch it on DVD in 1.85:1 despite it being in the cinemas in 2.35:1.

He also made Aliens in 1.85:1 but regrets it and said he wishes he did it in 2.35:1 instead.
allanp81
13-01-2011
He only made 1.85:1 on Aliens because he didn't like Anamorphic lenses and didn't know enough about super35. If he'd made Aliens a few years later then it would've 2.35:1 using super35.
Libretio
13-01-2011
Originally Posted by Paddy C:
“He also prefers the 1.85:1 version of Avatar over the 2.35:1 version. So that's why we have to watch it on DVD in 1.85:1 despite it being in the cinemas in 2.35:1. ”

Actually, 1.85:1 is the primary aspect ratio for AVATAR, but a 2.35:1 version was prepared for those cinemas worldwide which could accommodate the wider ratio. Believe it or not, there are MANY cinemas which have a fixed-ratio screen on which all films are projected, cropping every single one of them in some fashion (1.85 movies are clipped top and bottom, 2.35 movies are clipped at the sides, etc.). Some cinemas have a giant 1.85:1 screen which actually shrinks top and bottom to project a 2.35:1 image (the exact opposite of what CinemaScope was invented for!), and some cinemas actually letterbox the 2.35:1 image across a much narrower screen.

It's because of this that Cameron decided to go the 2.35:1 route for those theaters with a fixed-height screen. However, this reveals a complete lack of compositional value in his film (had the film been composed with a specific ratio in mind, rather than accommodating a variety of them, it wouldn't have been possible to crop the image without causing extreme damage to the overall illusion, made worse by the requirements of 3-D), and was completely unnecessary, since a single 1.85:1 version would have done the trick quite nicely.

The 1.85:1 version of AVATAR on home video and TV is the correct version. The 2.35:1 print is no more than a cropped/altered alternative.
grahamcrowden
13-01-2011
Originally Posted by bayards:
“Although TCM show films in their correct ratio - it would be nice if they could cough up for an HD version of the channel so we could pick a bit more detail out of the films.....”

Correct ratio? Are you serious?

TCM don't even broadcast in 16:9 anamorphic so they're 10 years + late already.

Expecting HD from a channel thats not even proper widescreen more than a decade after it should have been is a bit much.
mwardy
13-01-2011
Originally Posted by grahamcrowden:
“Correct ratio? Are you serious?

TCM don't even broadcast in 16:9 anamorphic so they're 10 years + late already.

Expecting HD from a channel thats not even proper widescreen more than a decade after it should have been is a bit much.”

Last time I looked, TCM showed films in the correct AR, just in a 4:3 frame. Not broadcasting 16:9 doesn't prevent showing the right AR. But I'm sure you know that.

Having said that, TCM is obviously well behind the tech curve.
grahamcrowden
13-01-2011
Originally Posted by mwardy:
“Last time I looked, TCM showed films in the correct AR, just in a 4:3 frame. Not broadcasting 16:9 doesn't prevent showing the right AR. But I'm sure you know that.

Having said that, TCM is obviously well behind the tech curve.”

I've seen a few films on TCM that should have been widescreen but were not although to be fair they are a minority.

Letterboxing in a 4:3 frame is something we had to tolerate on analogue and laserdisc.

There is no excuse for it , especially after 12 years of digital tv
mwardy
13-01-2011
Originally Posted by grahamcrowden:
“There is no excuse for it , especially after 12 years of digital tv”

Yes, well, personally speaking I agree. But I guess they think their main audience is less technically/aesthetically demanding or they would have had to shape up pretty quickly . I think even Hallmark (Universal as it is now) only got the ability to switch to 16:9 in these last twelve months, and was happy to show crude 4:3 cutouts of their 'flagship' 16:9 originated TV series for years before that. And still is in some cases.

It would be interesting to know how such channels come to decide when basic technical improvements finally become unavoidable.
DVDfever
14-01-2011
Originally Posted by Paddy C:
“He also prefers the 1.85:1 version of Avatar over the 2.35:1 version. So that's why we have to watch it on DVD in 1.85:1 despite it being in the cinemas in 2.35:1. ”

I haven't seen Avatar (it really doesn't interest me) but that does seem odd that he doesn't even give viewers the choice. What an arrogant get he is.
Libretio
14-01-2011
Originally Posted by DVDfever:
“I haven't seen Avatar (it really doesn't interest me) but that does seem odd that he doesn't even give viewers the choice. What an arrogant get he is.”

As I say, 1.85:1 is definitely the correct ratio - the 2.35:1 version was simply a (misguided and wholly unnecessary) means to an end. Believe me, I'm no fan of Cameron, but by taking the 2.35 version out of circulation for home video, he really isn't depriving anyone of anything, since the movie was meant to be seen at 1.85.
Libretio
14-01-2011
Next week's scope movies on Freeview TV (15 - 21 January).

I see Film4 is screening the 1956 version of INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS. The film was released in Superscope, an early version of Super 35 which rendered an aspect ratio of 2.00:1 (the specs were later amended to create 2.35:1 release prints for other films shot in the same process). However, IOTBS was shot with 1.85:1 in mind, and was subsequently printed and released in Superscope against the director's wishes. So, if Film4 screens it at something like 1.78:1 (as they've done before), then it isn't really a 'mistake' since both versions are equally valid.

And isn't it about time ITV 2 found something else to broadcast above and beyond those endless repeats of the Bourne series and TWISTER?!! I mean, aren't they even the least bit embarrassed that the same titles are being recycled week in and week out?...


• 27 DRESSES (Film4)
• 633 SQUADRON (ITV 4)

• ΖON FLUX (E4)
• AN AFFAIR TO REMEMBER (Film4)
• ALL THE PRETTY HORSES (Film4)

• BAD BOYS II (Channel 5)
• BLACK SNAKE MOAN (Film4)
• THE BOURNE IDENTITY (ITV 2)
• THE BOURNE SUPREMACY (ITV 2)
• THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM (ITV 2)
• THE BRAVADOS (Film4)

• CHISUM (Channel 5)
• THE CHRONICLES OF NARNIA: PRINCE CASPIAN (BBC 3)
• CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER (Film4)
• COLLATERAL (Film4)
• COMANCHE STATION (More4)
• THE CRIMSON RIVERS [Les Rivieres Pourpres] (C4)

• DANTE'S PEAK (ITV 2)
• D-DAY: THE SIXTH OF JUNE (Film4)
• DEEP BLUE SEA (ITV 2)
• THE DEVIL WEARS PRADA (C4)
• LE DΞNER DE CONS / The Dinner Game (BBC 4)
• DRILLBIT TAYLOR (Film4)

• EL CID (BBC 2) [2.21:1]
• ERASER (Channel 5)

• FREE WILLY (ITV 2)
• FROM HELL (Channel 5)

• GARDEN STATE (Film4)
• THE GUNFIGHT AT DODGE CITY (ITV 4)

• HEAVEN KNOWS, MR. ALLISON (C4)
• HITCH (Fiver)
• THE HITCHER (ITV 4)
• HOMBRE (More4)
• HOW TO STEAL A MILLION (Film4)

• I AM LEGEND (ITV 2)
• I'M NOT SCARED [Io Non Ho Paura] (Film4)
• INDIANA JONES AND THE LAST CRUSADE (BBC 1)
• THE INTERPRETER (ITV 2)
• INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS (Film4) [2.00:1]

• JACKIE CHAN'S FIRST STRIKE [First Strike] (ITV 4)

• KANGAROO JACK (ITV 1)
• KING OF KINGS (Film4) [2.21:1]

• LEGALLY BLONDE (BBC 2)
• LOGAN'S RUN (Channel 5)
• THE LONG DUEL (BBC 2)

• MAGNUM FORCE (ITV 4)
• MERCURY RISING (ITV 4)

• NEVADA SMITH (ITV 4)
• NEVER BEEN KISSED (E4)
• NINE MONTHS (Film4)

• POINT BREAK (BBC 1)
• PULP FICTION (BBC 3)

• QUENTIN DURWARD (C4) [2.55:1]

• THE RARE BREED (ITV 4)
• RESERVOIR DOGS (Five USA)
• THE ROBE (Film4) [2.55:1]

• SHALLOW HAL (Fiver)
• SILENT HILL (Film4)
• THE SPIDERWICK CHRONICLES (Film4)
• STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT (Film4)
• STAR TREK: GENERATIONS (Film4)
• STAR WARS EPISODE II: ATTACK OF THE CLONES (ITV 1)
• SYNECDOCHE, NEW YORK (Film4)

• TRUST THE MAN (BBC 1)
• TWISTER (ITV 2)

• THE UNDEFEATED (Film4)

• VILLAGE OF THE DAMNED (ITV 4)

• WARLOCK (More4)
• WITHOUT A PADDLE (E4)
DVDfever
14-01-2011
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“As I say, 1.85:1 is definitely the correct ratio - the 2.35:1 version was simply a (misguided and wholly unnecessary) means to an end. Believe me, I'm no fan of Cameron, but by taking the 2.35 version out of circulation for home video, he really isn't depriving anyone of anything, since the movie was meant to be seen at 1.85.”

Is the 3D version on Sky (and there is a Blu-ray of it but I think it's only being given away with specific 3D TVs) in 1.85:1?
Libretio
14-01-2011
Originally Posted by DVDfever:
“Is the 3D version on Sky (and there is a Blu-ray of it but I think it's only being given away with specific 3D TVs) in 1.85:1?”

I'd be very surprised if it was anything other than 1.85 (or 1.78, as these things tend to be), though I haven't seen it personally. The BR version is, indeed, 1.85.
Libretio
14-01-2011
Here's one I missed: THE WEDDING PLANNER is on 4 Music tonight (14 January), cropped to 16:9. I know they've shown the full 2.35:1 version before, but perhaps either on Channel 4 or Film4, I don't recall which.

I'm shocked to discover I can't edit my earlier posts, which is something of an inconvenience, to say the least!

So, here's an addition to next week's list of 2.35:1 titles on Freeview:

• GET RICH OR DIE TRYIN' (4 Music)
koantemplation
14-01-2011
BBC One HD Starship Troopers in 16:9.
grahamcrowden
14-01-2011
Originally Posted by koantemplation:
“BBC One HD Starship Troopers in 16:9. ”

Films that have been shown before in 16:9 are likely to continue that way.
Its only when films get relicenced that they will get scoped HD versions for screening.
RussellIan
14-01-2011
Hi Libretio, I just want to say Hola as I remember your excellent and informative work on the C4 forums before they, ahem, well we all know. Please keep up the good work.
koantemplation
14-01-2011
Originally Posted by grahamcrowden:
“Films that have been shown before in 16:9 are likely to continue that way.
Its only when films get relicenced that they will get scoped HD versions for screening.”

Yes I wouldn't expect them to pay out extra if they didn't have to.
Still it's nice to see more detail than I have done before.

I could make out the green badge on the reporter at the start of the film. Normally it is just a green blob.

Would you like to know more?
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