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Old 15-01-2011, 23:06
DVDfever
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Going back even further, I seem to recall some, or perhaps even a lot, of Film 4's output was also in OAR before it became a subscription channel. Can anyone confirm/correct?
I don't recall Film4 ever going 'free to sub to free'. It started off as a subscription channel before going FTA.
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Old 16-01-2011, 09:48
swills
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So after fitting my dunces head........ Why were 16.9 widescreen TV's 'invented' / produced etc, if that is not really the right size, TV Companies have invested in 16.9 since, but surely they could have invested in any new 'size' ?
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Old 16-01-2011, 09:50
horns
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So after fitting my dunces head........ Why were 16.9 widescreen TV's 'invented' / produced etc, if that is not really the right size, TV Companies have invested in 16.9 since, but surely they could have invested in any new 'size' ?
A cynic might answer 'to sell more TVs'.
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Old 16-01-2011, 09:56
mwardy
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Film4 was a subscription channel from day 1 on Sky and On Digital (DTT).
Apart from the occasional free weekend promotion it was always subscription based until it made the decision to go FTA.
OK--I had cable at that point so I must be remembering free weekends. Cheers.
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Old 16-01-2011, 10:11
mwardy
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So after fitting my dunces head........ Why were 16.9 widescreen TV's 'invented' / produced etc, if that is not really the right size, TV Companies have invested in 16.9 since, but surely they could have invested in any new 'size' ?
I presume it was a compromise. 16:9 allows the three major film ratios knocking about--with a bit of over-generalisation, 1.33, 1.85 and 2.35--to be shown correctly without *too much* black space on any one of them: relatively narrow pillar boxes on 1.33 (which of course all TV was previously made in) and black bars on 2.35.

I don't know if this was the major reason driving this particular choice--there was probably some sort of strategic plan related to the position of TV in the wider media landscape--but it's certainly one result of it.
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Old 16-01-2011, 10:12
horns
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16:9#History
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Old 16-01-2011, 10:30
mwardy
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OK--I had cable at that point so I must be remembering free weekends. Cheers.
OR: was Film4 perhaps initially part of a basic subscription pack of some sort, and then it decided to go it on its own? That would fit as well since I know I used to get Sky 1 on cable. In the dim and distant.
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Old 16-01-2011, 11:15
mwardy
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OR: was Film4 perhaps initially part of a basic subscription pack of some sort, and then it decided to go it on its own? That would fit as well since I know I used to get Sky 1 on cable. In the dim and distant.
Nope, I was wrong--single subscription at day 1.

I'll get me coat.
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Old 16-01-2011, 12:23
DVDfever
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I presume it was a compromise. 16:9 allows the three major film ratios knocking about--with a bit of over-generalisation, 1.33, 1.85 and 2.35--to be shown correctly without *too much* black space on any one of them: relatively narrow pillar boxes on 1.33 (which of course all TV was previously made in) and black bars on 2.35.

I don't know if this was the major reason driving this particular choice--there was probably some sort of strategic plan related to the position of TV in the wider media landscape--but it's certainly one result of it.
It pretty much fits right in the middle of the most commonly-used ratios, and was almost spot-on for 1.85:1 films.
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Old 16-01-2011, 20:48
jzee
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Jackie Chan's First Strike (1996) 2.35:1 on ITV4, starting on ITV4+1 at 21:15.
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Old 17-01-2011, 00:38
grahamcrowden
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I have about 1000 issues of the TV Times on disc and I was browsing a 1970 issue today and I was very surprised that a readers letter was complaining about the cropping of Cinemascope films on tv and ITV's film buyer of the time , the famous Leslie Halliwell said that broadcasters had a choice of versions with the sides off or borders top and bottom and Halliwell claimed that bordered versions had been seen of some films (although I doubt these were full 2.35:1) and he said that channels had to choose which version as they got complaints either way.
Oh well , we know which way they went .

To think its taken 40 years for tv to finally catchup.
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Old 17-01-2011, 19:19
Libretio
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I have about 1000 issues of the TV Times on disc and I was browsing a 1970 issue today and I was very surprised that a readers letter was complaining about the cropping of Cinemascope films on tv and ITV's film buyer of the time , the famous Leslie Halliwell said that broadcasters had a choice of versions with the sides off or borders top and bottom and Halliwell claimed that bordered versions had been seen of some films (although I doubt these were full 2.35:1) and he said that channels had to choose which version as they got complaints either way.
Oh well , we know which way they went .
They would occasionally turn up on regional ITV stations. I recall seeing LAND OF THE PHARAOHS and the 1979 version of DRACULA on Tyne Tees at something approaching their original ratio, back in the 1980's. But that was in the days of 4:3-only TV sets, so you'd need to strap a couple of Hubble telescopes to your eyeballs, just to get a sense of the grandeur these movies were supposed to impart...
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Old 17-01-2011, 21:14
grahamcrowden
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Back in the days of the 70's and 80's I don't ever recall ITV or BBC1 showing letterboxed films beyond the credits.
Even worse was when they squeezed the credits up to make them illegible.

I had an ITV VHS recording of Monte Carlo Or Bust and it was ridiculous.

BBC1's premier of 2001 on New Years Day 1982 was a laugh.They knew it was necessary to show the space scenes in 2.35:1 but they insisted on filling the blank space with their own stars .
A daft idea in principle it was rendered completely pointless as the stars overlapped objects on screen.
The Radio Times was filled with letters of derision.
They didn't do it again - not on 2001 anyway.

I always remember ITV's attempt to screen Goldfinger live rather than prerecorded tele-cine.
Although the film is only 1.66:1 their vain attempts to pan and scan from one side to the other was hilarious.
Clearly not even rehearsed and I often wondered what possible reason there was for not pre-recording it.
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Old 18-01-2011, 13:08
DVDfever
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Back in the days of the 70's and 80's I don't ever recall ITV or BBC1 showing letterboxed films beyond the credits.
Even worse was when they squeezed the credits up to make them illegible.

I had an ITV VHS recording of Monte Carlo Or Bust and it was ridiculous.
I remember they used to do this on BBC1 with Temple of Doom, to fit the opening credits on. Everyone looked anorexic!

BBC1's premier of 2001 on New Years Day 1982 was a laugh.They knew it was necessary to show the space scenes in 2.35:1 but they insisted on filling the blank space with their own stars .
A daft idea in principle it was rendered completely pointless as the stars overlapped objects on screen.
The Radio Times was filled with letters of derision.
They didn't do it again - not on 2001 anyway.
I remember that very broadcast (although I thought it was a couple of years later as I moved house in late 1983)

I always remember ITV's attempt to screen Goldfinger live rather than prerecorded tele-cine.
Although the film is only 1.66:1 their vain attempts to pan and scan from one side to the other was hilarious.
Clearly not even rehearsed and I often wondered what possible reason there was for not pre-recording it.
I thought they always pre-prepared these things.

Last night's Eraser, on Five, was like a return to the old days with credits in 2.35:1 and then to 16:9 afterwards. Shame, as C4 only ever showed the 16:9 version so I thought Five might've pulled their finger out to get an HD 2.35:1 print.
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Old 18-01-2011, 20:45
grahamcrowden
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It was definitely 1982 for 2001 as ITV aired Kubricks Spartacus in the afternoon and I recorded it and edited the ads out but in the evening I had to rely on my Dad for the BBC's broadcast of 2001 and I was annoyed that the very slow fade from the BBC globe to the start of the film was left in.
I always tried to make sure the globe was nowhere in sight.
I'm certain they didn't repeat that version with the stars.
They promised not to in the Radio Times when there were so many complaints and it must have been the earliest example of the BBC screening a film in 2.35:1 every time they showed it from then on.
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Old 18-01-2011, 20:51
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It was definitely 1982 for 2001 as ITV aired Kubricks Spartacus in the afternoon and I recorded it and edited the ads out but in the evening I had to rely on my Dad for the BBC's broadcast of 2001 and I was annoyed that the very slow fade from the BBC globe to the start of the film was left in.
I always tried to make sure the globe was nowhere in sight.
I'm certain they didn't repeat that version with the stars.
They promised not to in the Radio Times when there were so many complaints and it must have been the earliest example of the BBC screening a film in 2.35:1 every time they showed it from then on.
My mind could well have been hazy about when I saw it as I would've been 10

I'd hate to see a P&S version of that film!
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Old 18-01-2011, 22:10
koantemplation
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I don't know what happened to 'The Password is Courage' on C4 this afternoon, but it didn't take up the whole screen and was boxed in. (forgot the technical terms).

It was the same as when CBS Horror show Mutant X.

Why are certain channels showing films and WS shows like this?
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Old 19-01-2011, 14:01
oldgit207
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This is what it looked like on C4 HD;

http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/a...0119132351.jpg
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Old 19-01-2011, 14:10
mattyb
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This is what it looked like on C4 HD;

http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/a...0119132351.jpg
That looks like a broadcaster error. I've seen something similar on BBC Three when they've shown Family Guy and not change the correct ratio so it was boxed on widescreen settings but when you changed the settings on the sky box to full screen it fixed the problem.
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Old 19-01-2011, 20:02
DVDfever
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Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade on BBC1 in 2.35:1 now.
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Old 19-01-2011, 20:54
jzee
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Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade on BBC1 in 2.35:1 now.
Looks very good, better than the older IJs.
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Old 19-01-2011, 22:12
jenzie
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DAMMIT

why are itv2 showing I AM LEGEND in 16x9,when ITV1 showed it in 2.35x1 at christmas?????
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Old 20-01-2011, 00:12
DVDfever
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DAMMIT

why are itv2 showing I AM LEGEND in 16x9,when ITV1 showed it in 2.35x1 at christmas?????
They didn't. It was in 16:9. In the Granada region, at least.

Pulp Fiction currently on BBC3 in 2.35:1 (repeated Sunday, BBC2, 11.25pm)
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Old 20-01-2011, 01:20
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BTW, I've always thought the Nazi who chooses the wrong cup at the end of Indy & The Last Crusade ends up looking like Christopher Lloyd.
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Old 20-01-2011, 10:48
jackthom
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I always remember ITV's attempt to screen Goldfinger live rather than prerecorded tele-cine.
Although the film is only 1.66:1 their vain attempts to pan and scan from one side to the other was hilarious.
Clearly not even rehearsed and I often wondered what possible reason there was for not pre-recording it.
That reminded me of the BBC punched paper tape reader which was used in the mid 70s to control the pan position of the telecine.

IIRC each shot change was identified by a sticky metal dot placed on the film, which when detected triggered the next scan position.
It must have taken a fair amount of work to prepare the film reels and the paper tape. In my experience those films always went onto VT and were never transmitted directly.
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