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Channels Showing Full Widescreen Films
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mwardy
11-04-2011
Originally Posted by carrolls:
“You are only getting half the definition of your HD tv by having the movie in full widescreen. Thats why its rubbish.”

Arguing somewhat against Libretio , I'd say you're not losing any definition when 2.35 films are shown in OAR. If the image is cropped at 16:9 you will get extra *height*, and if the original was soft matted you may not lose any definition in the process. But you're not gaining any either. But if it was hard matted, as with e.g. Cinemascope and Panavision, then you *will* lose definition as it gets blown up to fill the screen. And in either case, as Andy2 has already said, if the director shot with the widescreen version as the chief focus of interest it will often look awkward as the framing goes to pot. Die Hard is a good example of both these phenomena (to take a semi-random example).

Showing films in OAR does give the audience a choice. They can watch them as intended, or if they don't care about the composition of the image and want to fill their TV real estate they can zoom in at their end, although with a loss of definition.TVs are pretty good at doing this these days so the end result probably won't be as bad as it sounds. And everyone is happy.
jzee
11-04-2011
Originally Posted by mwardy:
“Arguing somewhat against Libretio , I'd say you're not losing any definition when 2.35 films are shown in OAR. If the image is cropped at 16:9 you will get extra *height*, and if the original was soft matted you may not lose any definition in the process. But you're not gaining any either. But if it was hard matted, as with e.g. Cinemascope and Panavision, then you *will* lose definition as it gets blown up to fill the screen.”

I think it depends whether TV channel's copies are made from 1080p 2.35:1 masters or somehow special rescanned 16:9 versions, if the latter you still get 1080 HD detail, albeit cropped, if the former, you get cropping and less than 1080 detail.
mwardy
11-04-2011
Originally Posted by jzee:
“I think it depends whether TV channel's copies are made from 1080p 2.35:1 masters or somehow special rescanned 16:9 versions, if the latter you still get 1080 HD detail, albeit cropped, if the former, you get cropping and less than 1080 detail.”

OK, fair enough. Hadn't thought of that. Does it actually happen, do you/anyone know?

And it will still knock out the framing, as you note.
DVDfever
11-04-2011
Originally Posted by mwardy:
“Arguing somewhat against Libretio , I'd say you're not losing any definition when 2.35 films are shown in OAR. If the image is cropped at 16:9 you will get extra *height*, and if the original was soft matted you may not lose any definition in the process. But you're not gaining any either. But if it was hard matted, as with e.g. Cinemascope and Panavision, then you *will* lose definition as it gets blown up to fill the screen. And in either case, as Andy2 has already said, if the director shot with the widescreen version as the chief focus of interest it will often look awkward as the framing goes to pot. Die Hard is a good example of both these phenomena (to take a semi-random example).”

I remember the P&S version of Die Hard was an oddity. They slightly squashed the image vertically so had it been made to look 'normal', it was probably a 14:9 or 15:9 image originally. Not perfect at all, but it was slightly better than a regular 4:3 image. I'm so thankful we're past those days now.
mwardy
11-04-2011
Originally Posted by DVDfever:
“I remember the P&S version of Die Hard was an oddity. They slightly squashed the image vertically so had it been made to look 'normal', it was probably a 14:9 or 15:9 image originally. Not perfect at all, but it was slightly better than a regular 4:3 image.”

Now you mention it, I think I remember that as well! That's what you get when Jan de Bont is the D/P: composition so wide that anything else looks obviously wrong. The 4:3 P&S people had a job on.

Originally Posted by DVDfever:
“ I'm so thankful we're past those days now.”

Too right.
Libretio
14-04-2011
For anyone here who missed it due to apathy, ITV 4 finally screened LETHAL WEAPON 2 at the full 2.35:1 ratio last night.

The BBC, on the other hand, seems to have gone downhill after a promising start at Christmas time. I mean, a 16:9 version of SCREAM? Seriously?!...

What's worse, the picture quality looked decidedly 'off', as though they'd actually zoomed into a letterboxed 16:9 version of the film, originally mastered at 2.35:1.
pad_ehh
14-04-2011
Hmmm... It's a Warner Bros. film and I thought their Warner deal included only the pan and scan versions. If they can get a nice OAR of Lethal Weapon 2, what about 3 and 4? Will other WB titles follow suit I wonder?

Also noticed that Scream was cropped last night too... I think I'll just delete the recording and buy the DVD's instead!
mwardy
14-04-2011
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“The BBC, on the other hand, seems to have gone downhill after a promising start at Christmas time. I mean, a 16:9 version of SCREAM? Seriously?!...

What's worse, the picture quality looked decidedly 'off', as though they'd actually zoomed into a letterboxed 16:9 version of the film, originally mastered at 2.35:1.”

Yes, very poor in all ways.

Fortunately it has been on Film 4 correctly formatted about 1000 times, so no real loss!

Edit: except for Paddy C
DVDfever
14-04-2011
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“For anyone here who missed it due to apathy, ITV 4 finally screened LETHAL WEAPON 2 at the full 2.35:1 ratio last night.

The BBC, on the other hand, seems to have gone downhill after a promising start at Christmas time. I mean, a 16:9 version of SCREAM? Seriously?!...

What's worse, the picture quality looked decidedly 'off', as though they'd actually zoomed into a letterboxed 16:9 version of the film, originally mastered at 2.35:1.”

Originally Posted by Paddy C:
“Hmmm... It's a Warner Bros. film and I thought their Warner deal included only the pan and scan versions. If they can get a nice OAR of Lethal Weapon 2, what about 3 and 4? Will other WB titles follow suit I wonder?

Also noticed that Scream was cropped last night too... I think I'll just delete the recording and buy the DVD's instead!”

Thanks for the info about LW2. I'll catch a look next time. I'm not sure if that one's still censored over here, but either way, it's a million times better a film than LW3 or 4 where Richard Donner just played them for laughs on purpose and, sadly, just forgot why Mel Gibson's character was actually a "lethal weapon".

Scream was just an abomination. Picture quality was dreadful. A search on Amazon shows the trilogy is out on Blu-ray from next week for £37 or still on DVD for just under £8 (out of stock from Amazon but available from others)
Libretio
15-04-2011
2.35:1 movies across the Freeview platform next week (16 - 22 April):

Not only does C4 insist on screening the British film HMS DEFIANT under its American title DAMN THE DEFIANT!, but they also insist on screening a 16:9 cropped version, and I've no doubt the situation will be the same when it's broadcast on More4 next week. Avoid!

And let's hope the BBC doesn't fumble its Elizabeth Taylor 'tribute' by screening two-thirds of THE TAMING OF THE SHREW, rather than the full 2.35:1 enchilada.


• 3 IDIOTS (C4)

• ABSOLUTE POWER (BBC 1)
• ALVAREZ KELLY (BBC 2)

• BARABBAS (Channel 5) [2.21:1]
• BIGGER THAN LIFE (Film4)
• BREAKDOWN (ITV 4)
• BRIDE & PREJUDICE (E4)

• CONAN THE DESTROYER (ITV 4)
• 'CROCODILE' DUNDEE (E4)

• DAMN THE DEFIANT! [HMS Defiant] (More4)
• THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW (C4)
• DICKIE ROBERTS: FORMER CHILD STAR (C4)
• DREAMCATCHER (ITV 1)

• ENCHANTED (BBC 1)

• FIERCE CREATURES (ITV 3)
• FIREFOX (5USA)
• FORTY GUNS (Film4 / More4)

• GREASE (Film4)
• GREEN STREET (ITV 4)

• THE HITCHER (ITV 1)
• HOSTAGE (C4)
• HOWARDS END (Film4)
• HUNGER (Film4)

• THE ISLAND (ITV 4)

• THE LAST OF THE MOHICANS (5USA)
• THE LAST SAMURAI (ITV 2)
• LETHAL WEAPON 4 (ITV 4)
• LETHAL WEAPON 3 (ITV 4)
• LICENSE TO WED (5Star)

• MADE OF HONOR (Channel 5)
• MASH (Film4)
• MATILDA (5Star)
• THE MERCHANT OF VENICE (BBC 2)
• MISSION TO MARS (ITV 4)
• MY SUPER EX-GIRLFRIEND (E4)

• THE NOTEBOOK (Film4)

• PLANET OF THE APES (Film4)

• RAAVANAN (C4)
• RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK (BBC 3)
• RAMBO III (ITV 4)

• SHORT CIRCUIT (Channel 5)
• SILENT LIGHT [Stellet Licht] (Film4)
• SMOKIN' ACES (ITV 4)
• SPACE COWBOYS (5USA)
• THE STRAIGHT STORY (Film4)
• SWORDFISH (5Star)

• THE TAMING OF THE SHREW (BBC 2)
• TEAM AMERICA: WORLD POLICE (Film4)

• UNIVERSAL SOLDIER (5USA)

• VOLVER (Film4)

• WIN A DATE WITH TAD HAMILTON! (BBC 1)
Libretio
17-04-2011
Not a scope movie, but THE EXORCIST was broadcast on ITV 4 last night in a cropped 4:3 print. It wasn't 'opened up' like most 4:3 versions of 1.85:1 movies, it was cropped at the sides (I thought I detected some pan-scanning during the scenes I saw before switching off). Gawd knows where THAT print came from, but ITV ought to be ashamed of itself, especially since I watched a 16:9 print broadcast on ITV 2 (I believe) as recently as last year.
DVDfever
17-04-2011
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“And let's hope the BBC doesn't fumble its Elizabeth Taylor 'tribute' by screening two-thirds of THE TAMING OF THE SHREW, rather than the full 2.35:1 enchilada.”

Sadly, they did. And apparently Matilda was shown in 4:3(!)
daniel2015
17-04-2011
Originally Posted by DVDfever:
“Sadly, they did. And apparently Matilda was shown in 4:3(!)”

Matilda sure was shown in 4:3.

Its been repeated again right now and I have two matching black bars down either side of the screen which does shows its 4:3
DVDfever
17-04-2011
And now, Short Circuit on C5 in 4:3, too. Did Richard Desmond buy all his film prints from the 99p bargain bin at Woolies?
daniel2015
17-04-2011
Originally Posted by DVDfever:
“And now, Short Circuit on C5 in 4:3, too. Did Richard Desmond buy all his film prints from the 99p bargain bin at Woolies?”

Sure looks that way.

I am getting fed up with the channel 5 channels now. Too much 4:3 content and then people wonder why the channel dog is still in the 4:3 safe zone.
Sat.Deelay
17-04-2011
Originally Posted by DVDfever:
“And now, Short Circuit on C5 in 4:3, too. Did Richard Desmond buy all his film prints from the 99p bargain bin at Woolies?”

The whole film looked terrible. Even when supposedly upscaled on Channel 5 HD. It looked as if they'd dubbed a VHS copy onto another battered old VHS tape. Bloody awful!
pad_ehh
17-04-2011
Lethal Weapon 3 was not in 2.35:1 on ITV 4. How come they broadcast Lethal Weapon 2 that way then?

This boggles the mind! ITV are stuck with 1.85:1 crops and Channel 5 are stuck with 4:3 prints from the 80's and 90's!
jzee
17-04-2011
Originally Posted by daniel2015:
“Sure looks that way.

I am getting fed up with the channel 5 channels now. Too much 4:3 content and then people wonder why the channel dog is still in the 4:3 safe zone.”

Single White Female in 4:3 now on C5, pathetic, surely they must realise people are far less likely to watch with most people having widescreen TVs now? Absolute Power in 2.35:1 on BBC One on the + side....
DVDfever
18-04-2011
Originally Posted by jzee:
“Single White Female in 4:3 now on C5, pathetic, surely they must realise people are far less likely to watch with most people having widescreen TVs now? Absolute Power in 2.35:1 on BBC One on the + side....”

As for SWF, hey, Dickie Desmond, take a trip down the docks. See that boat? Go on, push it out(!)

And Absolute Power starts on BBC1 Scotland (Sky 971) at 12.25am, for anyone who missed the start on the others.

(Edit: WTF? It's in 16:9! *cancels recording. Emails complaint to the BBC.. Ooh, and POV*)
pad_ehh
18-04-2011
I wonder if jzee watched the whole film? Maybe the opening credits were in 2.35:1 then it zoomed in and jzee missed that?

The last few times Channel 4 have shown Austin Powers, they have shown it cropped so I wonder if they finally have got themselves a new 2.35:1 print?

3 of the 5 films shown yesterday on Channel 5 were in 4:3. That, is nothing short of a disgrace.
DVDfever
18-04-2011
Originally Posted by Paddy C:
“I wonder if jzee watched the whole film? Maybe the opening credits were in 2.35:1 then it zoomed in and jzee missed that?”

AP was in 2.35:1 during the film on BBC1 England and Wales, but in 16:9 from the start on BBC1 Scotland.
Libretio
18-04-2011
Originally Posted by DVDfever:
“AP was in 2.35:1 during the film on BBC1 England and Wales, but in 16:9 from the start on BBC1 Scotland.”

Memo to Beeb: What the bleedin' 'ell is THAT all about, then?!!...
jzee
18-04-2011
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“Memo to Beeb: What the bleedin' 'ell is THAT all about, then?!!...”

More black bar complainers are Scots?
DVDfever
18-04-2011
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“Memo to Beeb: What the bleedin' 'ell is THAT all about, then?!!...”

They got a job lot of crappy VHS prints from Dickie Desmond?
pad_ehh
20-04-2011
I dunno what's going on over at itv but they are showing Mad Max 2 I'm a funny aspect ratio. It's like 2.35:1 but streched vertically to fill the screen! Also the 80's and 90's style holding caption has returned where we get a still of the programmer title screen going into and out of a break instead of the modern animated itv break bumpers! They must be using a real old copy of the film to still have those!
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