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Channels Showing Full Widescreen Films
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eyeblink
25-09-2011
Originally Posted by mwardy:
“How does shooting in 65mm get optimised for Cinerama? I noticed the Cinerama reference in the Krakatoa credits but it evidently wasn't shot on three cameras, so I didn't know what to make of it.”

They would produce a special print so it could be projected on a curved Cinerama screen without too much distortion. Elsewhere, it would have been shown in normal 70mm "flat" prints and 35mm Scope prints. 2001 was another film where this was done.

There were only two dramatic features shot in the three-camera Cinerama process, How the West Was Won and The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm.
Libretio
25-09-2011
Originally Posted by DVDfever:
“Calendar Girls in 2.35:1 on BBC2. Is that the first time it's been in 2.35:1?”

Yes. When the BBC first screened it many moons ago, it was cropped to 16:9, so this was a BIG step up. I only saw a few minutes of the 2.35:1 version, but the image quality seemed a little 'soft' and off-putting. Not sure why that would be, but it seemed very noticeable to this particular fuss-pot.

Originally Posted by mwardy:
“How does shooting in 65mm get optimised for Cinerama? I noticed the Cinerama reference in the Krakatoa credits but it evidently wasn't shot on three cameras, so I didn't know what to make of it.”

Well, it was shot in Super Panavision 70 with a 2.21:1 ratio, but very likely framed within that space for a Cinerama release print (notice at the very beginning when the image was divided into three in an approximation of the Cinerama format). Also, the fact that the Cinerama company helped finance the production gives credence to this assertion. A small number of 70mm films were released in 3-panel format, though most prints were plain old 35mm anamorphic, while roadshow versions were mostly 70mm. I should have said this one seemed like it was optimised for Cinerama because of the way the image was divided at the beginning, in the same way some older 3-D films had the opening credits zoom out of the screen in a manner designed to set out the film's stall (as it were). Hope that clarifies!

By the way, THE THIEF LORD was replaced on ITV 2 yesterday by NO RESERVATIONS, which was cropped/altered from the original 2.39:1.
DVDfever
25-09-2011
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“By the way, THE THIEF LORD was replaced on ITV 2 yesterday by NO RESERVATIONS, which was cropped/altered from the original 2.39:1.”

Have there been any thief lords in the news recently that have given a reason for it to be postponed?

Mrs Doubtfire, previously on ITV in 2.35:1, now showing on C5 in 4:3(!)
mwardy
25-09-2011
@eyeblink, Libretio: Thanks for the detailed/knowledgeable replies. :thumbsup:
Libretio
26-09-2011
Originally Posted by mwardy:
“@eyeblink, Libretio: Thanks for the detailed/knowledgeable replies. :thumbsup:”

You're very welcome. Eyeblink must have posted at the same time as me, which is why our answers covered the same territory.

I've had a chance to watch Krakatoa now (or 40 minutes of it - I fast-forwarded to the exploding modelwork and then switched it off, since the whole thing was so bloody awful!!), and it's unfortunate the Beeb were only able to secure a print with a mono soundtrack. Even a 2-channel print would have provided an approximation of the original 6-channel audio BLAST. Much of the film was clearly framed with Cinerama in mind, with characters and objects placed within the areas where the 3 panels would operate, though some shots seemed to break this rule, which seemed odd at times. Still, a fantastic example of widescreen cinematography, even if the film itself was turgid and uninteresting.

And the first person who says: "Hark at Barry-bleedin'-Norman!" will have their membership of the Widescreen Whinge Society permanently revoked!
Libretio
29-09-2011
THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN broadcast on C4 at a ratio somewhere around 2.00:1 rather than the full enchilada, which was incredibly off-putting, so I deleted it from my DVR. Had the film been printed in 70mm for theatrical release, it might have been understandable, but there's no record of such a thing, and the cropping would only have worked if C4's print was sourced from 70mm materials anyway. A disappointment, that.
jzee
29-09-2011
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN broadcast on C4 at a ratio somewhere around 2.00:1 rather than the full enchilada, which was incredibly off-putting, so I deleted it from my DVR. Had the film been printed in 70mm for theatrical release, it might have been understandable, but there's no record of such a thing, and the cropping would only have worked if C4's print was sourced from 70mm materials anyway. A disappointment, that.”

I've actually been doing some comparisons of this with my Ultimate DVD, on C4 HD at least (I am assuming C4 SD is just downscaled), the image was showing considerably more on top and bottom of the picture than what is on the DVD, not only that, the DVD appears to be squished, the HD on C4 HD was in the correct proportions, the ratio I measured at about 2.24:1. The difference in detail between the DVD and C4 HD is considerable.
Libretio
30-09-2011
Originally Posted by jzee:
“I've actually been doing some comparisons of this with my Ultimate DVD, on C4 HD at least (I am assuming C4 SD is just downscaled), the image was showing considerably more on top and bottom of the picture than what is on the DVD, not only that, the DVD appears to be squished, the HD on C4 HD was in the correct proportions, the ratio I measured at about 2.24:1. The difference in detail between the DVD and C4 HD is considerable.”

The SD version on 'regular' C4 just seemed a little off, not helped by the fact the frame was off-centre (in other words, the lower matte was far more substantial than the upper matte). Not sure why this should be, since 2.24:1 presents a reasonable amount of the original image. However, overscan on my ancient tube TV may account for some of what I saw, even though every movie I've seen framed at around 2.35:1 on this set has looked perfectly normal. That's why this particular presentation stood out, and was a little off-putting.

I should really start thinking about an investment in HD TV!!...
Libretio
30-09-2011
2.35:1 movies across the Freeview platform for the coming week (1 - 7 October):


Saturday (1 October)

• APOLLO 13 (ITV 2)
• BABYLON A.D. (E4)
• BATTLE OF MIDWAY [see: Midway]
• BATTLE OF THE BULGE (C5) [2.76:1]
• BEDAZZLED (Film 4)
• CATWOMAN (ITV 2)
• CON AIR (BBC 3)
• THE COWBOYS (5 USA)
• FROST/NIXON (BBC 2)
• FUN WITH DICK AND JANE (5 USA)
• GOAL II: LIVING THE DREAM (BBC 2)
• THE IRON GIANT (More 4)
• KEEPING MUM (More 4)
• KELLY'S HEROES (ITV 4)
• LAST ACTION HERO (5 USA)
• LOVE AAJ KAL [लव आज कल] (C4)
• MIDWAY (ITV 4)
• SHAUN OF THE DEAD (ITV 1)
• STAR TREK: INSURRECTION (Film 4)
• TIMECOP (5 USA)
• A TIME TO KILL (Film 4)
• X-MEN ORIGINS: WOLVERINE (C4)
• ZULU DAWN (C5)


Sunday (2 October)

• CASINO (ITV 4)
• CATWOMAN (ITV 2)
• CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN 2 (C4)
• DRAGONHEART (ITV 1)
• THE GOONIES (C5)
• JUMPER (E4)
• KIDULTHOOD (BBC 2)
• LAST ACTION HERO (5 USA)
• THE LOVELY BONES (Film 4)
• MISS CONGENIALITY 2: ARMED & FABULOUS (ITV 2)
• NOWHERE BOY (C4)
• SHALLOW HAL (C5)
• STAR TREK (C4)


Monday (3 October)

• 10,000 BC (5*)
• THE BARBARIAN AND THE GEISHA (Film 4)
• THE BRAVADOS (Film 4)
• CARLITO'S WAY (ITV 4)
• HARPER (BBC 1)
• THE ISLAND (ITV 4)
• LSD: LOVE, SEX AUR DOKHA [एल एस डी: लव] (C4)
• WHEN EIGHT BELLS TOLL (E4)
• THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH (ITV 2)


Tuesday (4 October)

• ALAMAR [see: To the Sea]
• BULLWHIP (Film 4)
• THE CORRUPTOR (5 USA)
• OCEAN'S TWELVE (ITV 2)
• SCARFACE (ITV 4)
• STAR TREK: INSURRECTION (Film 4)
• TO THE SEA [Alamar] (Film 4)
• VON RYAN'S EXPRESS (Film 4)
• THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH (ITV 2)


Wednesday (5 October)

• BABYLON A.D. (E4)
• BANDITS (BBC 1)
• BETTER THINGS (C4)
• THE BOURNE IDENTITY (ITV 2)
• THE ENEMY BELOW (More 4)
• FLIGHT OF THE PHOENIX (Film 4)
• THE INN OF THE SIXTH HAPPINESS (Film 4)
• THE QUEST (ITV 4)
• TRANSPORTER 2 [Le Transporteur 2] (Film 4)


Thursday (6 October)

• CASINO (ITV 4)
• FALLING DOWN (ITV 4)
• HELL AND HIGH WATER (C4) [2.55:1]


Friday (7 October)

• ALEXANDER (ITV 1)
• MASH (More 4)
• THE QUILLER MEMORANDUM (Film 4)
• THE TALL STRANGER (Film 4)
DVDfever
30-09-2011
I know it'll be no surprise, but like when it was on C5 - if I remember rightly - C4's broadcast today of Cheyenne Silver... erm, I mean Autumn, was in 2.35:1.
jzee
30-09-2011
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“The SD version on 'regular' C4 just seemed a little off, not helped by the fact the frame was off-centre (in other words, the lower matte was far more substantial than the upper matte). Not sure why this should be, since 2.24:1 presents a reasonable amount of the original image. ”

Can we be sure the original image was exactly 2.35:1? Presumably with the new HD master they got it as accurate as they could get it.

Originally Posted by Libretio:
“However, overscan on my ancient tube TV may account for some of what I saw, even though every movie I've seen framed at around 2.35:1 on this set has looked perfectly normal. That's why this particular presentation stood out, and was a little off-putting.

I should really start thinking about an investment in HD TV!!...”

Yes overscan would have made it more noticeably not 2.35:1, here's a link to the comparisons I just posted on the DS Freesat forum, the difference is certainly a good advertisement for HD, & retort to those that say they can't tell the difference between upscaled DVD & HD. Yes you can see noise, but that is what was on the original film & is blurred out in SD DVD.
mwardy
30-09-2011
Excellent demo there jzee. That's quite a vicious squeeze on the so-called 'ultimate edition' DVD.
jzee
01-10-2011
Originally Posted by mwardy:
“Excellent demo there jzee. That's quite a vicious squeeze on the so-called 'ultimate edition' DVD. ”

Yeah, why did they insist on squashing it to exactly 2.35:1 though, presumably it doesn't actually matter about being exact, it's more important it's in proportion?
Libretio
01-10-2011
Originally Posted by jzee:
“Can we be sure the original image was exactly 2.35:1? Presumably with the new HD master they got it as accurate as they could get it.”

Hope I'm reading you correctly, jzee: The film was shot 35mm anamorphic, so the original filmed image would have been 2.35:1. There may have been issues at the periphery of the materials they used which occasioned the (very slight) cropping to 2.24:1.

Originally Posted by jzee:
“Yes overscan would have made it more noticeably not 2.35:1, here's a link to the comparisons I just posted on the DS Freesat forum, the difference is certainly a good advertisement for HD, & retort to those that say they can't tell the difference between upscaled DVD & HD. Yes you can see noise, but that is what was on the original film & is blurred out in SD DVD.”

Unfortunately, those comparisons won't display on my computer, though I take the point you're making. As I say, even with the overscan, the vast majority of 2.35:1 movies display on my TV in a manner which is clearly 2.35:1 - any deviation from that (such as the SD broadcast of THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN) is immediately apparent.

By the way, has TMS been released on Blu-ray? If it has, anyone know how it looks re: aspect ratio?
jzee
01-10-2011
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“Hope I'm reading you correctly, jzee: The film was shot 35mm anamorphic, so the original filmed image would have been 2.35:1. There may have been issues at the periphery of the materials they used which occasioned the (very slight) cropping to 2.24:1.”

I assuming cropping always occurs to some extent, but is there an actual' rule' it always has to be put into 2.35:1 with hard coded black bars in digital form? The DVD shows even less, the ratio of that corrected is about 2.31:1, so they would have had to get rud of even more of the picture if they wanted it 2.35:1 in the correct proportion.

Originally Posted by Libretio:
“Unfortunately, those comparisons won't display on my computer, though I take the point you're making. ”

That is odd, they should work in any browser, you need to let each load for about 30 seconds if you have a slow connection, then just move mouse over to show DVD, and off to the side to bring back the HD.
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“By the way, has TMS been released on Blu-ray? If it has, anyone know how it looks re: aspect ratio?”

Yes it has, in a box set "The Magnificent Seven Collection", reviewed here on blubeaver, it gives the NTSC ARs as 2.27:1, then 2.31:1, doesn't give the blu ray AR but I measured it at about 2.33:1, I'll try and do a direct comparison with some of these grabs.
DVDfever
01-10-2011
Kelly's Heroes on ITV4 at the moment in 2.35:1.
Libretio
01-10-2011
Originally Posted by jzee:
“I assuming cropping always occurs to some extent, but is there an actual' rule' it always has to be put into 2.35:1 with hard coded black bars in digital form?”

Since that's the original shape of the image on the frame, most distributors will opt for that ratio in digital format, or as near as possible. Unless there's print damage or some other reason, there isn't much of a reason for NOT doing it that way, if you see what I mean.

Originally Posted by jzee:
“That is odd, they should work in any browser, you need to let each load for about 30 seconds if you have a slow connection, then just move mouse over to show DVD, and off to the side to bring back the HD.”

Nah, my computer has been acting up for the last couple of days. Some things refuse to load, and appear on-screen as red X's. I'm hoping to get it fixed in due course.

Originally Posted by jzee:
“Yes it has, in a box set "The Magnificent Seven Collection", reviewed here on blubeaver, it gives the NTSC ARs as 2.27:1, then 2.31:1, doesn't give the blu ray AR but I measured it at about 2.33:1, I'll try and do a direct comparison with some of these grabs.”

Thanks for that confirmation.
DVDfever
01-10-2011
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“Nah, my computer has been acting up for the last couple of days. Some things refuse to load, and appear on-screen as red X's. I'm hoping to get it fixed in due course.”

Sometimes just closing the browser window and reopening will sort that.
jzee
01-10-2011
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“Since that's the original shape of the image on the frame, most distributors will opt for that ratio in digital format, or as near as possible. Unless there's print damage or some other reason, there isn't much of a reason for NOT doing it that way, if you see what I mean.”

Well, you'll never guess what, but you may have been right....., the Channel 4 HD version contains the same frame as the blu ray...but...it is stretched, however....:sleep:...I think the blu ray may not be right either, judge for yourselves:

C4 HD vs blu ray 1

C4 HD vs blu ray 2

C4 HD vs blu ray 3

Originally Posted by Libretio:
“Nah, my computer has been acting up for the last couple of days. Some things refuse to load, and appear on-screen as red X's. I'm hoping to get it fixed in due course. ”

Sounds like Internet Exploder, try Firefox.
Libretio
02-10-2011
Originally Posted by DVDfever:
“Sometimes just closing the browser window and reopening will sort that.”

Originally Posted by jzee:
“Sounds like Internet Exploder, try Firefox.”

The issue is a bit more complex than that. I'm on Windows XP. The other day, I switched on my computer and access to the Internet seemed OK. Then I discovered my list of recently visited pages had gone missing. I closed the browser and reopened it, to see if that would sort the issue, but I was instead taken to the BT Yahoo sign-in page, which has NEVER happened before. I signed in, but the browser closed on me, and did so a couple of times after that.

When I *did* manage to get back online, it was though all my Internet settings had been reset, which meant no recently-visited pages, and I had to sign back into all my regular websites, including this one. Everything seems OK now, except that certain things (such as the 'Reply With Quote' etc. boxes at the foot of each posting here) will only appear as red X's. I tried deleting my cache and cookies, switched my home hub on and off, but without success. Nor will any of jzee's links appear as they should (they open, but there's nothing there except a red X).

I'm firewalled and have Norton anti-virus, and I ran a check, but nothing. And that's the current state of play.

Apologies for running off-topic, but it's (marginally) germane to the topic (ie. why I can't access jzee's links).
jzee
02-10-2011
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“I'm firewalled and have Norton anti-virus, and I ran a check, but nothing. And that's the current state of play.

Apologies for running off-topic, but it's (marginally) germane to the topic (ie. why I can't access jzee's links).”

Are you using Internet Explorer, what version is it? As you can't get IE 9 on XP, it's probably best to switch to Firefox or Google Chrome as these are being kept up to date.
DVDfever
02-10-2011
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“I'm firewalled and have Norton anti-virus, and I ran a check, but nothing. And that's the current state of play.

Apologies for running off-topic, but it's (marginally) germane to the topic (ie. why I can't access jzee's links).”

Try running Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware program and see if that picks anything up.
Libretio
03-10-2011
Originally Posted by jzee:
“Are you using Internet Explorer, what version is it? As you can't get IE 9 on XP, it's probably best to switch to Firefox or Google Chrome as these are being kept up to date.”

All I know is that it's the very latest version of IE (whatever number it happens to be), since BT insisted I switch some time ago. If things aren't sorted out naturally (ie. the bloody thing happened without any warning, so it might 'correct' itself the same way), I'll definitely try another browser.

Originally Posted by DVDfever:
“Try running Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware program and see if that picks anything up.”

I've heard nothing but good things about this, so I may give this one a try, too.

Thanks for the advice, guys!
DVDfever
04-10-2011
Originally Posted by Libretio:
“All I know is that it's the very latest version of IE (whatever number it happens to be), since BT insisted I switch some time ago. If things aren't sorted out naturally (ie. the bloody thing happened without any warning, so it might 'correct' itself the same way), I'll definitely try another browser.”

IE is the browser I only use as a last resort.

I mainly use Seamonkey, which derived from Netscape and has since been updated so it looks more like Firefox, but I'm not a great fan of that one. I use it occasionally, though, in case there's the odd site that doesn't work in SM although since the update that doesn't happen very often.
pad_ehh
04-10-2011
Same here, Firefox all the way for me. I've converted so many people and they have all said the same, it's much nicer, more customisable, easier laid out, easier to use and faster than IE. But anyway, back on topic...!
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