It may have gotten better toward the end, but I switched off about 20 minutes from the start! Sub-Mamet dialogue and affected performances, designed to generate the feeling of a stage play on film. The three principals are terrific actors, to be sure, but I prefer my entertainment to be a little more naturalistic.

Now then, where did I put my VHS copy of SWEDISH EROTIC SEXATIONS?...

Probably better quality than some websites where the sync is out or the aspect ratio is all over the place... or so I've heard...

Not a film, but does anyone know what format Birdsong (starting Sunday,BBC1) is filmed in? There's nothing on IMDB and while it looks fine in 16:9 on the trailer, the clips shown on Breakfast today were all in 2.35:1. However, they looked very unbalanced as if the black bars were just stuck on top for effect (like the trailers for Zen, which was actually 16:9 in the broadcast) and that the ratio should really be 16:9.
Ta.

The Exorcist on ITV 4 currently playing out at 4:3 - has this always been so? I'm sure I've seen it 16:9 previously.

Even though it's been produced as a 2-part TV feature, this still qualifies as a 'film' in the accepted sense, since it's a one-off drama and not part of an ongoing series.

That aside, I've scoured the 'Net for more clues on BIRDSONG's aspect ratio and could find nothing, not even the gauge on which it was filmed. The only thing to do is wait and see how it's broadcast.


I saw it last year on one of the ITV channels (not ITV 1, I'm pretty sure of that) at 16:9, so ITV does have a 'proper' print of this one. I remember being surprised to find it was the so-called "director's cut", with material that wasn't included in the original theatrical version (the 'spider-walk' sequence, for example). The ITV 4 version is a farce, best avoided.

(Unless otherwise indicated, all films in the following list were projected at 2.35:1 prior to 1971, and at 2.39:1 thereafter)

Scope and 3-D movies across the Freeview platform for the coming week (21 - 27 January):


Saturday (21 January)

• 55 DAYS AT PEKING (C5) [Super Technirama 70] [2.21:1]
• THE ABYSS (C4)
• THE CORRUPTOR (5 USA)
• ENEMY OF THE STATE (BBC 3) [Panavision]
• FAME (C4)
• FIRE DOWN BELOW (BBC 2) [CinemaScope]
• GUNFIGHT IN ABILENE (5 USA) [Techniscope]
• HAPPY FEET (ITV 2) [CGI Widescreen]
• INSIDE I'M DANCING (ITV 1) [Panavision]
• JACKIE CHAN'S FIRST STRIKE [First Strike] [警察故事4之簡單任務] (5 USA) [Technovision]
• JOE KIDD (C5) [Panavision]
• LICENCE TO KILL (ITV 4) [Panavision]
• MADE OF HONOR (C5)
• NOTTING HILL (ITV 2)
• OPEN SEASON (5*) [IMAX DMR 3-D] [1.85:1]
• RAT RACE (Film 4) [Panavision]
• TRANSPORTER 2 [Le Transporteur 2] (C4)
• UNDERWORLD: EVOLUTION (Film 4)
• WHALE RIDER (BBC 2)
• WHERE EAGLES DARE (ITV 4) [Panavision]


Sunday (22 January)

• ACE VENTURA: WHEN NATURE CALLS (C5)
• ALEXANDER (ITV 1)
• THE BIG COUNTRY (ITV 4) [Technirama]
• THE BOY FRIEND (BBC 4) [Panavision]
• DRAGONBALL: EVOLUTION (Film 4)
• ESCAPE TO VICTORY [Victory] (ITV 4) [Panavision]
• THE HIGH AND THE MIGHTY (BBC 2) [CinemaScope] [2.55:1]
• INDEPENDENCE DAY (Film 4)
• LADYHAWKE (C4) [Technovision]
• LICENCE TO KILL (ITV 4) [Panavision]
• LIFE OR SOMETHING LIKE IT (Film 4) [Panavision]
• MISS CONGENIALITY 2: ARMED & FABULOUS (ITV 2)
• OPEN SEASON (5*) [IMAX DMR 3-D] [1.85:1]
• TAXI (E4)


Monday (23 January)

• DEEP BLUE SEA (ITV 2)
• A GOOD YEAR (Film 4)
• HEAVEN KNOWS, MR. ALLISON (Film 4) [CinemaScope]
• MRS. DOUBTFIRE (5*) [Panavision]
• SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE (Film 4)


Tuesday (24 January)

• BEOWULF (5 USA) [CGI Widescreen / 3-D]
• CROSSING OVER (Film 4)
• THE GHOSTS OF GIRLFRIENDS PAST (Film 4)
• LOGAN'S RUN (Film 4) [Todd-AO 35]
• OPEN RANGE (BBC 1)
• WHITE FEATHER (Film 4) [CinemaScope] [2.55:1]


Wednesday (25 January)

• CAROUSEL (Film 4) [CinemaScope 55] [2.55:1]
• CHEYENNE AUTUMN (Film 4) [Super Panavision 70] [2.21:1]
• ENEMY OF THE STATE (BBC 3) [Panavision]
• HUD (Film 4) [Panavision]
• RUN FATBOY RUN (C4)
• THE SIMPSONS MOVIE (E4) [CGI Widescreen]
• X-MEN (Film 4) [Panavision]


Thursday (26 January)

• THE COMANCHEROS (Film 4) [CinemaScope]
• DISTRICT 13 [Banlieue 13] (Film 4)


Friday (27 January)

• DISTRICT 13: ULTIMATUM [Banlieue 13: Ultimatum] (Film 4)
• INDEPENDENCE DAY (Film 4)
• JAWS 2 (ITV 1) [Panavision]
• TAXI (E4)
• URBAN LEGEND (5*)

Ta. I was in two minds about watching that or 127 Hours, but I think I'll watch the film and I-player Birdsong afterwards. Based on the clips I've seen so far, I'd put money on a conventional 16:9 broadcast.

Saw Whale Rider earlier - in 16:9.

Fame was in a decent widescreen on Channel 4
Last edited by Braindead2011 : 22-01-2012 at 01:55

Although the Radio Times said it was edited for language. That said, being a US movie with a 12-cert, it's generally just a single f-word, thrown in to avoid it getting a PG rating which is box office death for non-animated films in the US.

Even so, I'll wait for a post-watershed screening on Film 4. There's an epidemic of 'edited for pre-watershed' films on TV, which would be fine if there was any indication before broadcast (outside of a brief mention in the Radio Times) that viewers are getting a compromised version of the film.

When C4 first started, this kind of thing was anathema to them (arguably, it was their decision to run uncut films and acquired TV shows which helped open up other channels in this respect) and they would have moved heaven and earth to alert viewers to edited films, and the reason they were edited (SCUM and A BIGGER SPLASH were early casualties). I appreciate that things have changed, and that so many films that might have been PG in the past are now PG-13 (or 12A) for the reasons DVDfever mentioned (ie. one f-word means a 'restrictive' rating and therefore bigger commercial prospects in the US), but there's no excuse for refusing to alert viewers beforehand.

Tangentially related: The latest Hammer film, THE WOMAN IN BLACK, has been cut by the BBFC at the distributor's request for a 12A, to reduce scenes of horror/violence that would otherwise have been classified 15. An uncut version was available to them, but they chose to cut the film instead. Therefore, a British film that will play uncut everywhere else will be playing in its own country in a compromised state. The home video version will probably be uncut, but even so...

I remember the days of C4 having morals


Yep, they'll cut it to get more bums on seats in the cinema, then release the 15-cert version on DVD and Blu-ray as the "Goriest version ever!!", as they often do these days.

I once emailed the BBFC with a rambling email and did not get a satisfactory response.

Yep, they'll cut it to get more bums on seats in the cinema, then release the 15-cert version on DVD and Blu-ray as the "Goriest version ever!!", as they often do these days.

When Mirrors was released at the cinemas in the UK with cuts for a 15, and uncut on DVD with a 18 certificate I emailed the BBFC because the film was being promoted as 'the version you could not see in the cinemas'

Dear Sirs

Why do you allow distributors to take censorship cuts (Mirrors and The Spirit) for cinema screenings in an arena where a film is likely to be seen only once making the impact and influence of gore, violence etc a flash in the pan experience, but then allow the censored material onto a medium for the home where it can be seen multiple times by adults and children. Surely this makes a nonsense of the decisions you make. The distributors then market thses films as 'uncut' or 'the version you did not see in the cinema'. I feel as though i am being constantly duped into having to watch an inferior version of a movie as an adult at the cinema, and your organisation is compliant in ripping me off.



BBFC reply

Thank you for your email. I am sorry you feel "duped" by some of our classification decisions.

The BBFC will only cut a film either on the grounds of legality or harm (or both). However, film distributors will sometimes require a film to obtain a lower rating than the one awarded to it by the BBFC (and on occasion, higher). To achieve this rating, distributors will accept cuts to remove the problematic material. The BBFC cannot compel a distributor to accept rating they do not want or prohibit them from cutting a work.

Concerning the DVD release of the film with cut material restored, it should be noted that the rating will inevitably be raised. MIRRORS, for example, was classified '15' on film in a reduced version, and '18' for DVD with the material restored. If THE SPIRIT is submitted for DVD classification with the cuts restored, it will be rated '15' instead of '12A'. The higher rating, coupled with more robust consumer advice, will indicate that the work contains stronger material.

Details of our classification decisions, including information on cuts made and why, are available on our main website - http://www.bbfc.co.uk - by using the 'search' function. These can be consulted prior to attending the cinema. For an explanation why some distributors decide to cut films to obtain a certain category, you are advised to contact the companies directly.

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to express your views to us

Yours sincerely,


J L Green
Chief Assistant (Policy)

The BBFC don't want children to see this stuff in the cinema, but the BBFC must be aware that mental cases and children will watch the same censored material denied to adults in a cinema at home when mum and dad are out for example just by rooting through the DVD collection.

That is a commercial decision by the distributor at the end of the day, but it does seem strange that a horror film is considered more desirable to have a 12A than a 15. Maybe they thought Daniel Radcliffe's presence would get the kids in?

C4 and Film Four are bound by Ofcom guidelines to show versions with homeviewing certificates where they exist. (If the film doesn't have a BBFC certificate, then their usual taste/decency guidelines apply.) I do remember that they wouldn't cut films unless they absolutely had to, such as in the cases mentioned previously. It's worth mentioning that they have paid to submit films to the BBFC so that they can show uncut versions (e.g. Crimes of Passion, Spetters, Taxi zum Klo) or to show a film that the BBFC had previously banned (The Trip).

I also remember C4 pioneering unsimulated sex on free-to-air TV, when they showed The Idiots very late one night.

Yet they blurred the penetration scene.

Incidentally 5*'s airing of Mrs. Doubtfire on Monday is almost certain to be in 4:3 as it was aired in this format on C5 before Christmas.

The second time they showed it, they didn't.

18-rated films containing unsimulated sex do turn up on Film Four every now and again.

The cinema version of the Fame remake was actually PG-rated, with the DVD version upped to a 12 with a few extra bits and pieces. There's no rhyme or reason anymore with Channel 4 and FilmFour's decisions - watched Local Hero on Channel 4 the other week and it was edited for language in an afternoon screening, yet it goes out uncut on FilmFour in the same earlier slots, despite both being free-to-air.

FilmFour are the biggest disappointments to me, having once marketed themselves on showing films as uncut as possible - since they went free-to-air, they now routinely edit stuff for pre-watershed screenings.

A few notable exclusions include Bertolucci's 1900 - despite being awarded an uncut 18 by the BBFC, FilmFour, in their subscription days, chose to obscure a scene with small boys playing with their bits. And the film Bodysong, which contains sequences from vintage hardcore films, has played uncut Channel 4 with no fuss or fanfare.

(Unless otherwise indicated, all films in the following list were projected at 2.35:1 prior to 1971, and at 2.39:1 thereafter)

Scope and 3-D films released on UK Blu-ray (23 - 29 January):

• 30:MINUTES OR LESS (2011)
• THE ART OF GETTING BY (2011)
• THE CHANGE-UP (2011)
• THE DEBT (2010)
• MELANCHOLIA (2011)
• SHARK NIGHT 3D (2011) [Fusion 3-D] [1.85:1]
• TWO-LANE BLACKTOP (1971) [Techniscope]


Scope and 3-D films released on US Blu-ray (24 - 30 January):

• THE APARTMENT (1960) [Panavision]
• FLASH POINT [導火線] (2007)
• MANHATTAN (1979) [Panavision]
• THE MOMENT OF TRUTH [Il Momento della Verità] (1964) [Techniscope]
• REAL STEEL (2011)
• THE WHISTLEBLOWER (2010)

Which would be fair enough, considering they have to answer to the ever-watchful minions at Ofcom (who must themselves answer to those people who aren't as open-minded as many of us on these forums). But it's the secrecy which pisses me off - the fact that C4 doesn't mention censorship before broadcast, and the fact that they don't schedule an uncut late night repeat. Some films are routinely screened in pre-watershed slots, cut to pieces, and are never shown in the evening (EYE OF THE NEEDLE is a notorious recent example).

And then there's the inconsistency from one title to another: The remake of FLIGHT OF THE PHOENIX is routinely shorn of a few rude words during its pre-watershed slot (along with some other material, such as the close-up of a corpse), and yet COACH CARTER - whose dialogue is chock-full of PG-level swearing - goes out uncut at all times. Context be damned: The word 'shit' is the same, no matter who's saying it, and under whatever circumstances.

Ta for the info, but as eyeblink says


The final decision lies with the distributor. More bums on seats in the cinema then everyone can get the full version at home later on.

Same as when Lethal Weapon 3 and 4 were dumbed down in terms of violence, as well as Mel's *reason* to be a lethal weapon being completely forgotten about, to bump up the comedy factor, hence why they were crap compared to the first two. (in my view)


Ta for the info. Didn't realise there were two versions. I see the BBFC has the 12 at 117 mins (on PAL DVD and Blu-ray, so it's 123 mins in the cinema) and the PG at 107 mins (cinema). Taking ads into account for its 130 min slot, I expect C4 just went with the PG for this timeslot. Easier than getting the 12-cert and trying to make their own cuts.


I haven't seen 1900 but In the Realm of the Senses only recently restored a similar scene for the recent Blu-ray release (review link below contains stills from the film which are NSFW - one is the 'egg' scene and one is from the final scene in the film)

http://dvdfever.co.uk/?p=2692

Just a slight nitpick - 1991 wasn't the first cinema release in the UK, just the first with a BBFC certificate. In the Realm of the Senses was previously shown without a certificate under club-membership conditions since the late 70s. I first saw it when we showed it at Southampton University in 1985.

Not only horrendously cropped, but censored for a pre-watershed screening, even though it went out at 9pm!!

By the way, just to follow up on another comment in this thread, BIRDSONG was broadcast at 1.78:1 (16:9).

Thanks, I've just updated the review with that as I didn't know.


Do they just have the PG-rated print?


Yep, and I saw one of the scenes that was oddly cropped to 2.35:1 for the BBC Breakfast clips and I could tell how stupid it looked then and looked like it should do on the proper broadcast. Still working my way through it as it's a bit slow (and the main guy looks like this guy - http://www.myfreewallpapers.net/comi...d-magazine.jpg)

I didn't see it because I forgot to record it, but apparently BBC4 showed The Boy Friend in 4:3

Don't the film companies sometimes produce two versions of a film, the original and a cut TV version (4:3) for international sales?

Could it be C5 bought the rights to air the TV version (cheaper?) rather than the cinema version?

They did indeed. More's the pity, because I don't recall this being shown on network terrestrial TV for absolutely donkey's years.


For older films, all kinds of different prints will be floating around the marketplace, including cropped 4:3 prints, hold-overs from the days when 4:3 was the predominant TV shape. As I understand it, TV companies are provided with two versions of specific titles - an uncut print and a censored TV print. At least that's how it USED to be done - I imagine most broadcasters these days will apply their own standards from one product to another, depending on the nature of the film/TV show and depending on what time of the day/night they intend to broadcast it.

The waters have since been muddied by the introduction of OAR, especially in HD-land. I suspect the reason we're seeing so many OAR scope movies on TV, especially the BBC, is because it costs extra for a 16:9 cropped print AND an OAR version, so they've opted for the cheapest alternative. And since there's no excuse for cropping a film in a world now dominated by 16:9 TV's, they opted for OAR. In most cases, of course - not all.