FFS. How downhill has this forum gone?

The "xyz means nothing if you choose not to believe in it" is a pointless circular argument.


The contracts BB contestants signed are very much real. You can bet your bottom dollar that if endemol broke any of the specifics of the contracts contestants would have them straight in court for breech of contract in minutes.

I don't know what world you live in biomorph, but if all agreements between people/businesses/governments were ignored and became meaningless because "I choose not to believe in it", then society would break down.

yes, society as we know it would break down. and that has the potential of being a good thing.

i need to point out here that i'm not being deliberately confrontational nor pedantic. i'm just as much trying to figure out for myself what it is that i'm trying to articulate.

kitten is reminding us that in life everything can be disobeyed. certainly many things should be persistently disobeyed.

everything in life is constantly about choices we make, including the choice to allow someone to have power over us or not.

and kitten is in a game of shifting sands, where one side can change the rules at any time. kitten is reclaiming her right as an autonomous adult to choose to disobey any rules or any contracts.

nihilism states that nothing has any value and therefore everything is equal.

Exactly, and Kitten had that choice when she was holding the endemol contract she was about to sign.

She can't have her cake and eat it.

i think she is having her cake and eating it.

As a successful anarchist, she is on a par with Rick from the Young Ones.

What I have found irritating about Kitten's behaviour is the pointlessness of her actions.

There will no doubt be many times in the Big Brother house when disobeying BB would be commendable and other times when it would be funny, but Kitten seems to break rules for the sake of breaking rules - which is more acne anarchy than political anarchy.

I am surprised that more of the other HM's haven't had a go. They all seem to be treating her with kid gloves. Even Emma's tirade was quite subdued, considering.

To run perilously close to absurdum, what Kitten has done is the equivalent of being told by guards at some fascistic prison camp that the next time she acts like a prat, one of her fellow prisoners will be shot, and then going and prannying about 5 minutes later and claiming it's not her fault as the poor soon-to-be-ex prisoner is dragged to the wall and shot. In fact if I remember rightly she giggled in the DR when she was told she had her third strike.

By all means rebel, but at least rebel against something worthwhile.

Did Ghandi stand on the roof of the Taj Mahal because someone had locked his alcahol cabinet.
Did Martin Luther King paint rude words on the Golden Gate Bridge because someone wouldn't give him his suitcase.

Make a worthwhile stand against a worthwhile cause not arse about because you're a bit bored.

Actually I think I probably am getting absurdum.

I apologise.

AD

But she ain't. BB aren't looking to renegotiate the rules with her, they are just handing out punishments. Which will culminate in BB chucking her out once they have bled her dry for ratings/money.

At the end of the day she is doing her 'real world' causes no good. People look at what she does, and think:

"WTF? She fully agreed to all the BB rules before she went in, can leave whenever she likes, and all she can do is climb onto the roof and prattle on about how she is being oppressed by BB. Tit."

It is a shame really; she has some decent "real world" points to put across. I may not agree with all of them, but they deserve to be aired, but she behaves like a petulant kid and so totally discredits herself.

Hmmmm... the break down of society (and the provision of public goods) disproportionately affects/victimises those who are least able to look after themselves.

People injured in accidents - where will they go, who will treat them? People with poor health - who will provide essential treatments, supply the medicines they depend on to live? Crime victims unable to defend themselves - vigilante justice and the rule of the lynch mob anyone? Still think it could be a good thing?


Sulky, mindless disobedience is a well known phenomenon, we even have a special life stage for it: the pre-pubescent teenage years. Most people grow out of it when they find something more constructive to do with their lives.

Kitten is a walking cliche, just another spoilt, self-obsessed bleeding-heart liberal, forced to define her otherwise dull character through her middle-class guilt and parroted left-wing bigotry.

If she's so right-on why is she on TV showing off instead of working to alleviate the lives of those less fortunate than herself? She's just another media wannabe secretly hoping to land a job as a children's TV presenter.


Tell me where you live and I'll come round and trade all your stuff for a few bits of old string and some carpet fluff I've just found.

its noticeable that rik from the young ones and citizen smith are often mentioned. i suspect that many forum members are only familiar with these caricatures and are unable to refer to genuine examples of anarchists.

Rik was my favourite character! At least people aren't comparing Kitten with Vivian from the Young Ones (who would have been far more likely to have organised a rooftop protest to get six bottles of wine...)

Kitten's heart is in the right place but her message is often undermined by her immaturity...

society as it currently exists disproportionately affects/victimises those who are least able to look after themselves.


you assume that this is the inevitable result of the dissolution of society as we know it. you assume a lack of compassion, yet we currently live in a capitalist society that strongly founded on selfishness and greed. while most crimes are motivated by money and the desire for material goods.

you assume there would be an inability to care for people. and you assume that autonomous communities would be incapable of negotiating justice.


many people grow out of it because they have been worn down by a mainstream message of compliance and conformity


prejudgments are usually based on stereotypes which are oversimplified and overgeneralized views of groups or types of people. Or, a prejudgment may be based on an emotional experience we have had with a similar person, it becomes our own personal stereotype.

Stereotypes also provide us with role expectations, i.e. how we expect the other person (or group,) to relate to us and to other people. Of course, sometimes individual people are somewhat like the stereotype but it is a gross injustice to automatically assume that is the totality of their being, nor how everybody is within a particular group.



maybe she wants a bit of a laugh. maybe she knew she'd do a better job than past housemates. maybe she wants to exploit a bit of live popular telly to spread the message that its ok to disobey.


to be honest anyone who knows me can testify that theres little other than old string and carpet fluff, well cat hair actually, in my flat.

true. but if a more charismatic and articulate disobedience activist had applied its doubtful endemol would have allowed them in.

for all her faults, kitten is a breath of fresh air on a show that has presented us with 4 years of grateful compliant sheeple with no apparent agendas beyond fame for the sake of fame.

Great! A real life Kitty!


No I assume a lack of that society's industrial economy that produces the high-tech, hard-to-produce medical goods people with cystic fibrosis, diabetes, MS or kidney disease depend on. Perhaps your idealised break down of society excludes those who work in/supply these key areas. They would presumably be forced to carry on as before.

It wasn't capitalism that made Stalin murder 20 million people, Hitler attempt to exterminate the Jewish population in Europe or tribes in our evolutionary history fight each other. Selfishness and greed are not unique to so-called "capitalist" societies.


I'm sure that's very reassuring for rape victims.


Yes. Remember the lynch mob who attacked a paediatrician's house 'cos they couldn't spell paedophile. Not much negiotiation, or indeed justice, involved, if I remember correctly... Don't tell me, let me guess - capitalism made them do it!


OK, I'll just take your "no value" computer, bed, cooker...

Thus far the HMs are weak. Only emma has had the guts to stand up to Kitten. I would have had at least one row every day with her if I had been in there. i don't know how she can stand there amd say the eviction isn't her fault and the other HMs agree with her. What the ****?!

How long would you continue watching if they kept doing the same thing over and over again?

But one of the terms of the contract is an HM can end it at any time by leaving the house. Therefore, it is not an unreasonable term for BB to be able to change the rules.

doesn't that pretty much sum up the millionaire show as it is.

"i'm just as much trying to figure out for myself what it is that i'm trying to articulate."

You sound like kitten - she starts talking without the aid of thinking first. She just repeats slogans she's heard without understanding their validity.

"Hmmmm... the break down of society (and the provision of public goods) disproportionately affects/victimises those who are least able to look after themselves."

Of course you're right but it's not "biomorph04"'s fault he said something silly - he did say "i'm just as much trying to figure out for myself what it is that i'm trying to articulate." This is a readymade excuse for talking rubbish.

You mean someone like Joe Hill who ended up being shot as a murderer?

I don't think you could name a recognised anarchist who was very well known or respected.

biomorph04 said: "you assume there would be an inability to care for people. and you assume that autonomous communities would be incapable of negotiating justice."

There used to be these problems but as society built itself to the present level they reduced suffering. You're way would bring us back to the situation when there was more suffering.

Been listening to too much crass have we

I dont agree that the other HMs agree with her even if they say they do.

For example, Jason realises kitten is not a thinker so he deems it pointless discussing things with her.

Fair point! But don't avoid the issue. She does get boring by the second "er, ya know".

i think kitty is the real life kitty.


i haven't stated what my idealised break down of society is. i have instead proposed that the breakdown of our current society might be a good thing. it equally might not. but i am open to at least thinking about the possibility that it might be bettter.

many of the causes of illness today are because of the way we currently live, chemical poisons, over processed foods, unhealthy foods, stress, isolation, overprescribed antibiotics etc etc

as with everything there are swings and roundabouts. perhaps in an alternative society some people will die who would otherwise live now. but many millions of people today are starving because of the selfish exploitative methods of global capitalism, therefore with a change in the system many starving and malnourished people might live better.

all i'm suggesting is its worth researching and thinking about.


capitalism isn't the only tyranny its true. but as for hitler, fascism is the ultimate capitalism. as mussolini said "Fascism should more properly be called 'corporatism', since it is the marriage of government and corporate power."

capitalism is founded upon exploitation and inequality. it is the worshipping of money. and we only have to look at the current example of american foreign policy to see its true face.



there are of course crimes that aren't motivated by money or property. there are crimes that are founded on models of power, punishment and oppresion. and as i said previously you assume that an alternative society would lack compassion or any ability to negotiate justice or to educate people through positive examples of equality.



a lack of educational and humanist priorities in today's capitalist society did it


firstly my original statement was a philosophical one. it was an alternative perspective for generating thought.

i do value my computer, it allows me to communicate within an approximation of democracy that we have never previously been able to experience. i am not a monk and i am not going to crucify myself. but i exist at a level of poverty with little interest in money or material gain.

my overall attitude is that there is too much automatic compliance and conformity in the world. we neglect the terrible and often remote consequences of our lifestyles.

george bernard shaw said "Disobedience, the rarest and most courageous of the virtues, is seldom distinguished from neglect, the laziest and commonest of the vices."


oscar wilde said "disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is man’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress had been made, through disobedience and through rebellion."