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ESA Medicals & Support group |
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#126 |
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Storbritannia
Posts: 28,916
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Quote:
Interesting to see this pinned.
UPDATE I got a telephone call from a woman at the DWP on Thursday to deliver the outcome of my ATOS assessment (see above posts)- two months on!~~~Thanks for reading. There's a flavour of ESA WRAG group activities below although the quality of the activities might be variable to say the least: Most people get put into the Work Related Activity Group (otherwise known as WRAG) - probably at least 80 or 85%. It means you are deemed to be able to engage in 'work related activity' i.e. talking to an employment adviser about your future return to the workplace, and what support you might need to arrive at that stage. The first appointment is with an Employment Adviser in the Jobcentre, the rest of them will be with someone in a private sector company contracted to the DWP to run the Work Programme. The good bit: they can offer wellness classes such as walking groups, CBT, help with CV preparation, training to change occupation - all sorts of things. It does not involve being told to apply for jobs. They cannot ask you to do anything that would make your condition worse. There is really nothing to be afraid of. If they push you in a direction you are not happy with, complain to their manager and complain to the Jobcentre. The bad bit: they can defer appointments if you are not well, but if you don't turn up without telling them, they will sanction your benefit. They can't take away your basic amount, but they can remove the top-up you received since you got put into WRAG. https://healthunlocked.com/lupusuk/p...activity-group If any one activity is going to cause distress or if the frequency of the activities does likewise then people can be exempted but it would be appropriate to obtain medical backup to ensure that no benefit sanctions are applied. I'd suggest asking this advisor how flexible and accommodating they are willing to be and if they're not then the option below might be worth considering (it would also be worth asking the DWP advisor if there are any charities that place unwell people with employers in the public, private and charitable sectors). An alternative might be to appeal to be placed in the ESA Support Group where there are no such obligations. That could take the pressure off and allow you to move back to work at your own pace. If an appeal is an option then I'd suggest keeping a written note of the date that you were informed of the decision (I assume a letter will follow) and there'll be one month to appeal from that date. I'd strongly suggest getting external help with an appeal (see links earlier on in this thread) because that can effectively double the appeal success rates and I'd suggest using the arguments in the Black Triangle links that your health would be very seriously compromised by remaining in the ESA WRAG group. I hope that helps. |
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#127 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Getting on with it...
Posts: 12,840
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Thank you very much for your advice, Television User, and taking the time to respond
. Will keep referring back to it. Funnily enough, even before I've got the confirmatory letter re: the WRAG, I've been called in for a first appointment on the 20th Jan, so they didn't waste time. In a way, I am glad because it takes place well before my month to appeal is up so if I feel uncomfortable with how it goes, appeal I will. My GP has already offered support if I needed to appeal the outcome.
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#128 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Station Eleven
Posts: 3,476
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I also have CFS, and was initially placed into the Work Related Activity Group. I appealed and was correctly placed into the Support Group. It was bloody stressful but worth it in the end. How anyone could possibly have expected me to be capable of working even part time is beyond me. It didn't help that ATOS lied and twisted my words in their report to the DWP.
If there is no reasonable chance of you being able to work in the foreseeable future you should be in the Support Group. |
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#129 |
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Getting on with it...
Posts: 12,840
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Quote:
I also have CFS, and was initially placed into the Work Related Activity Group. I appealed and was correctly placed into the Support Group. It was bloody stressful but worth it in the end. How anyone could possibly have expected me to be capable of working even part time is beyond me. It didn't help that ATOS lied and twisted my words in their report to the DWP.
If there is no reasonable chance of you being able to work in the foreseeable future you should be in the Support Group. |
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#130 |
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Station Eleven
Posts: 3,476
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After I was placed into the WRAG I appealed but was too ill to attend the hearing, and they refused to schedule another hearing until I'd had a medical.
Unfortunately the subsequent ATOS report claimed I'd be well enough to work in a few weeks and basically twisted everything I said. I made sure to get a copy of the report before I sent in my appeal, but if you want the report you should ask for it ASAP before your appeal window ends. Luckily I had copies of occupational health reports, as well as copies of letters from my medical records, to back up my appeal letter. It's very important to have supporting documentation should you appeal. On the strength of my appeal letter they changed their decision and put me in the Support Group without me having to attend another hearing, and I got a backdated payment. |
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#131 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Storbritannia
Posts: 28,916
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Quote:
After I was placed into the WRAG I appealed but was too ill to attend the hearing, and they refused to schedule another hearing until I'd had a medical.
Unfortunately the subsequent ATOS report claimed I'd be well enough to work in a few weeks and basically twisted everything I said. I made sure to get a copy of the report before I sent in my appeal, but if you want the report you should ask for it ASAP before your appeal window ends. Luckily I had copies of occupational health reports, as well as copies of letters from my medical records, to back up my appeal letter. It's very important to have supporting documentation should you appeal. On the strength of my appeal letter they changed their decision and put me in the Support Group without me having to attend another hearing, and I got a backdated payment. |
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#132 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 938
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I got put in the support group straight away without a medical for 3 years which I'm pleased about.
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#133 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 1,051
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For me Atos decided as I had gone alone on the bus to my first wca I was fit for work. Despite having two injured shoulders, and no other method I knew about to get to the assessment. I was not aware of them paying for taxis/home visits.
So after they found me fit for work I appealed and the tribunal put me in the wrag. 3 months later I was so bad I couldn't dress/cook clean at all and doc had put me on morphine. The doc suggested as a) I was worse health wise and b) my 365 days had ran out that I asked for a supersession to go into support. I sent in every piece of evidence I could get my hands on, even getting my fiance to write a letter from his point of view with what I needed help with (and still do so to this day) It took dwp/atos 6 months to look at my file and I was moved to the support without even a assessment. I did my esa50 online so I could fit it all in ( the boxes expand with the online version so you can fit more in), while being able to fill it in at my own pace, and it is less pain to write at a keyboard/laptop on sofa than sitting at a desk/writing. !8 months after the supersession I still am in the support, and I am a firm believer that the way you fill the form in makes alot of difference and adds weight to your claim. I wrote so much that there was no denying my evidence. If you have to attend a wca insist on getting it recorded and get the report they do on you, even if you pass to be placed in wrag/support. It is vital the evidence dwp hold on you is correct, so if in the future you fail a assessment, you can show that in the past assessments they found you unfit for work, and they can refer back to it. I recently had a pip assessment earlier in 2014 and I agreed with everything they put, but back in September 2014 I had a Industrial Injuries Benefit assessment, and this report had lie after lie init. In the mandatory recon I have had to refer back to the pip report to show how the lies put me in a negative light.The IIDB assessor said I had full movement in both shoulders, yet I couldn't even lift it above my breasts, luckily I could prove this by a witness plus showing that the pip report showed me as not being able to do this. Without the pip report I couldn't prove this either way. I am awaiting the dwp's decision on this right now, and if it goes to courts I shall fight it as much as I can. I put my reconsideration in at the start of December, but apparently they are so far behind it could be months before they can look at it. |
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#134 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 512
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I'm curious, my partner has been placed into the WRAG ESA (still looking at and deciding on appeal options) yet her advisor has asked her to sign up to universal job match and pretty much apply for jobs as if on JSA!.
Yet they by doing so have totally ignored both her ATOS report and doctors notes on both her physical and mental limitations. Kind of like I told them with her when they wrongly put her on JSA before I won her the appeal to go back on ESA, we called Tesco, Asda & Aldi (places they suggest she call apply for a job with) explained her various medical conditions and limitations etc and they all pretty much said she would not really be suited to any position within the company even if they had a vacancy and they could not employ her anyway as she would unlikely be covered by their employee insurance. And as I'm sure many should know if your not or can't be covered by a companies employee insurance then it would probably be illegal to be employed by such a company. Yet when ever this was mentioned during the JSA and now ESA they dont serm to want to accept or verify this information and even the ESA advisor tries to ignore it in the expectation they can force my partner onto universal job match which to date I have told her not to do as its hardly a requirement when they have never assessed her abilities or looked into her restrictions. Possibly an ill trained personal advisor I don't know, but they sure like to try and refuse access to there disability advisors to for some reason. |
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#135 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Storbritannia
Posts: 28,916
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Quote:
I'm curious, my partner has been placed into the WRAG ESA (still looking at and deciding on appeal options) yet her advisor has asked her to sign up to universal job match and pretty much apply for jobs as if on JSA!.
Yet they by doing so have totally ignored both her ATOS report and doctors notes on both her physical and mental limitations. Kind of like I told them with her when they wrongly put her on JSA before I won her the appeal to go back on ESA, we called Tesco, Asda & Aldi (places they suggest she call apply for a job with) explained her various medical conditions and limitations etc and they all pretty much said she would not really be suited to any position within the company even if they had a vacancy and they could not employ her anyway as she would unlikely be covered by their employee insurance. And as I'm sure many should know if your not or can't be covered by a companies employee insurance then it would probably be illegal to be employed by such a company. Yet when ever this was mentioned during the JSA and now ESA they dont serm to want to accept or verify this information and even the ESA advisor tries to ignore it in the expectation they can force my partner onto universal job match which to date I have told her not to do as its hardly a requirement when they have never assessed her abilities or looked into her restrictions. Possibly an ill trained personal advisor I don't know, but they sure like to try and refuse access to there disability advisors to for some reason. In the intermediate ESA WRAG group, people are required to attend half a dozen or so work related activities like CV compilation and presentation, work-focussed appointments and so on. However, people in that category should not be required to seek work and if that's incorrectly being pushed then you're perfectly within your rights to object and if they get uppity you can point out that you'll be taking this matter up with the CAB, the MP for the area [see http://www.theyworkforyou.com] and the You and Yours disability and consumer rights radio programme - that should shut them up. Quote:
Work-related activity group
You must go to regular interviews with an adviser who can help with things like job goals and improving your skills. https://www.gov.uk/employment-suppor...what-youll-get https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...561/dwp015.pdf |
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#136 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 512
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Quote:
As you've said, you've got the right to appeal and there's plenty of resources above to help with that but I really would suggest getting the additional help options, CAB, community law centre, local council benefits advice unit if you both decide to go down that route (and all good luck if you do!)
In the intermediate ESA WRAG group, people are required to attend half a dozen or so work related activities like CV compilation and presentation, work-focussed appointments and so on. However, people in that category should not be required to seek work and if that's incorrectly being pushed then you're perfectly within your rights to object and if they get uppity you can point out that you'll be taking this matter up with the CAB, the MP for the area [see http://www.theyworkforyou.com] and the You and Yours disability and consumer rights radio programme - that should shut them up. Several times we have asked to see the disability advisor for my partner, each time we have been fobbed off. I find it quite amusing how they try to put off access to the disability advisor and come up with excuses. Still awaiting a few other other appointments via the job centre to confirm and verify her various issues, that they also need to do as part of WRAG, yet they don't seem to keen on that either. All they want is to get my partner onto universal jobs match, which I've already told them she is not currently required to do and not mandatory despite the advisor trying to suggest it is even for ESA WRAG. My partner is 1 of those easily intimidated by these people and would accept and agree to anything and bull they tell her and sign an agreement to say so where I not there to stand up for her and her rights. |
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#137 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Station Eleven
Posts: 3,476
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There is no compulsory requirement for anyone on ESA to register with UJM or look for work. Ask the staff at the Jobcentre to show you the legislation if they try to tell you otherwise. If that fails print this off from their own guidance and show it to them: Quote:
• You must also remember that the participant’s claimant group affects https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...tober-2012.pdfthe nature of their participation. For example, although mandatory ISLP and ESA participants can be supported towards employment they cannot be mandated to: • apply for jobs, or • take up work If in the event she does register, make sure she's aware that she does not have to tick the box that gives the DWP access to her account. She is within her legal rights to do this. |
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#138 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 512
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Quote:
There is no compulsory requirement for anyone on ESA to register with UJM or look for work. Ask the staff at the Jobcentre to show you the legislation if they try to tell you otherwise. If that fails print this off from their own guidance and show it to them:
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...tober-2012.pdf If in the event she does register, make sure she's aware that she does not have to tick the box that gives the DWP access to her account. She is within her legal rights to do this. My partners next ESA advisor appoint is next month now and will be raising a few issues with them with my partner. And will print that section out to point out there bull over the universal jobs match that they can't then dispute. |
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#139 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London or Valencia
Posts: 5,732
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Quote:
I got put in the support group straight away without a medical for 3 years which I'm pleased about.
Of course that's not to take it for granted, but it's helped my mental health massively and has already made me more confident about the prospect of interviews in future!
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#140 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 53,635
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I've got a medical tomorrow. First one in probably ten years. I'm fully expecting to be failed on it and to have to sign on, although I think the Support Group would be more beneficial to me under the circumstances.
Can you ask to go in to the Support Group or do you just have to hope you get lucky ? |
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#141 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 5,137
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Jason, in order to get into the ESA Support Group then 1 of these descriptors must apply:
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/emp...up-descriptors or you may be able to get in via the Exceptional Circumstances Regulations. You would have to show that you have a specified condition and that there would be a substantial risk to your health if you were not put into the Support Group. A bit more detail can be seen here: https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/20...regulation-25/ Something worth noting is that record percentages are being awarded ESA and being put into the Support Group. For repeat ESA assessments, at least 65% of people have been put into the SG in the available figures for each of the last 4 quarters (it was 70% for the last quarter). For IB-ESA migration assessments the corresponding percentages were 67% and 81%. They can be seen here: https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...s-to-sept-2014 Good luck with tomorrow's assessment. |
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#142 |
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wolf359
Posts: 96,725
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Quote:
I've got a medical tomorrow. First one in probably ten years. I'm fully expecting to be failed on it and to have to sign on, although I think the Support Group would be more beneficial to me under the circumstances.
Can you ask to go in to the Support Group or do you just have to hope you get lucky ? It would be helpful if you had a professional such as a social worker or GP add a letter of support also giving evidence about how your condition affects your ability to work. Also I hope you have someone going with you. Let us know how it goes. |
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#143 |
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Storbritannia
Posts: 28,916
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All you can do is present your evidence as best you can in relation to the indicators Richville has linked to.
It would be helpful if you had a professional such as a social worker or GP add a letter of support also giving evidence about how your condition affects your ability to work. Also I hope you have someone going with you. Let us know how it goes. *From any one of the nearest Citizens Advice Bureau, local council benefits advice unit or community law centre depending what is available locally. |
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#144 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 53,635
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Thanks folks. Obviously being up at 3am, I'm not stressing about it at all .. *cough*
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#145 |
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 9,177
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How did you get on today, Jason?
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#146 |
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 53,635
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Quote:
How did you get on today, Jason?
. In one respect, it wasn't really anything I wasn't expecting but some of the questions were really quite stupid. She had the form that I had actually filled out and submitted a year ago and I noticed that the lady from the CAB who i'd seen last year who helped me get the form done had put "Weight Problems" in one of the sections.The assessor said "So how long have you had this condition ?". I said "Err, I didn't know being overweight was a 'condition'". She quickly followed up with ".. and are you taking any medication for this condition ?". I said "Are you trying to ask me if i'm on a diet ?" ![]() I was asked the usual questions about what i did indoors, how often i went to the shops - stuff like that. She demonstrated zero knowledge of my condition which I don't doubt will cause some problems when it comes to writing up her report, but I guess i'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it. |
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#147 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 9,177
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Quote:
The assessor said "So how long have you had this condition ?". I said "Err, I didn't know being overweight was a 'condition'".
She quickly followed up with ".. and are you taking any medication for this condition ?". I said "Are you trying to ask me if i'm on a diet ?" ![]() Shouldn't laugh, but it shows how crude and simplistic the process is. Last year I won an appeal for somebody partly because of that question. The client explained to the assessor that the usual medication for the condition was contraindicated because of other health problems he had, and that he was having acupuncture at his own expense instead. That wasn't reported and the decision maker had disallowed points for descriptors affected by that condition, which was about 16 points in total. We submitted evidence from his GP that he couldn't take NSAIDs because of a history of gastritis, and a letter from his acupuncturist explaining that he was being treated for pain and inflammation in knees, ankles and both hands. The tribunal were happy with that and awarded the 16 points, and put him in the support group because work related activity was likely to make his condition worse. |
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#148 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Folkestone
Posts: 1,648
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I'm in the ESA support group. I have some mental problems and some physical problems. No one in authority, like doctors and hospital, ever mentioned PIP to me. I only found out about it after a chance remark from a woman I met. I'd never even heard of it before.
Well I phoned the DWP and told them I was on ESA and asked if you could claim PIP at the same time and they said yes. They took a few details and said they would send me a form, which they did. It's very similar to the ESA form. Some months later they set up an assessment appointment at my home. It lasted two hours. To be honest I didn't really expect much knowing how hard it was to get ESA, but I thought what have I got to lose. Anyway about five weeks after my appointment I got a letter saying I was being awarded it! I get the higher rate Daily Living component of £81.30 a week and the lower rate Mobility component of £21.55 a week...total £102.85 a week! It also entitles me to a free bus pass and a blue badge for use in a car. They then sent a form to me asking if I lived alone and did I have a carer. I live alone and don't have a carer so now they've awarded me another £61.10 a week! So on top of my usual ESA I'm getting a total of £163.95 more a week. All these payments have been backdated to when I first applied for PIP as well. When the woman came round to do my assessment I told her it was just by chance I'd heard about it, she said not many people know about it. So if you're receiving ESA it might be worthwhile to see if you're eligible for PIP too. |
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#149 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 9,177
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What a great result, Miss C!
And that is why I love doing benefits work, because every day I get results like that for people who simply didn't know what they were entitled to. This month my gains for people were over £100k. |
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#150 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Folkestone
Posts: 1,648
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Quote:
What a great result, Miss C!
And that is why I love doing benefits work, because every day I get results like that for people who simply didn't know what they were entitled to. This month my gains for people were over £100k. |
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. Will keep referring back to it. Funnily enough, even before I've got the confirmatory letter re: the WRAG, I've been called in for a first appointment on the 20th Jan, so they didn't waste time. In a way, I am glad because it takes place well before my month to appeal is up so if I feel uncomfortable with how it goes, appeal I will. My GP has already offered support if I needed to appeal the outcome.
