Spur of the moment? She had two weeks isolation before she went into the house, and a lifetime of campaigning. Surely a seasoned activist would be better prepared.

Here writing on the mirrors was well formulated wasn't it - piss off and **** off. If class war is the best cause she can show support for then we're all doomed

Let's get one thing straight, my opinion of Kitten (and that of many others) is based upon her actions in the past 8 days - not some sterotype image I have concocted or indeed any form of prejudice!

She labelled herself a "political activist" before entering the house and then proceeded to rant about any cause going without actually being able to substantiate most of her arguements! Let's look at the rant about the treatment of minorities - Marco (a gay man - one of Kitten's so-called poorly treated minorities) disagreed with her and was labelled ignorant.

At the end of the day she didn't do herself or her many "causes" and good - I'm sure genuine "activists" are appaled by her actions!

That wasn't a spur of the moment thing, no matter how compulsive she is generally as a person. She had an agenda when she went into the house, and knew of the 'opportunities' available to her.

She'd actually thought through what it would have been like when she was evicted. She was particularly worried about facing a live audience, and had asked to be able to 'walk' so as not to face them.

I'm wondering how ker-azeeely rebellious she'd have actually been had an audience ridiculing her? It was a far more damaged Kitten that left the house than went in.

kitten proved to be fairly knowlegable about a number of things.

while many gay men might believe that they are not oppressed, whilst forgetting how habitually they police their selves in public on a daily basis in order to minimise getting a kicking. not kissing in public. not holding hands etc

many other gay men may themselves contain self hatred, absorbed from growing up in a culture that persistently affirms them as second class citizens. there is a high preponderance of alcoholism and drug binging in the gay community.

fundamentally from the moment kitten first appeared she was a breath of fresh air and a confident model for general disobedience.

This to an extent is partially right.

However, several points here. Stereotypes, whilst you argue that they are 'wrong' and misleading, are not necessarily innacurate. Kitten's behaviour and delivery of her politics is uncannily similar to those of Turvey, Rik, Millie Tant etc., etc..

I'd also argue that people are preceiving someone correctly if the connection is so readily recognised by so many people. Also, how do people actually choose a 'suitable' stereotype without accurately spotting particularly defining characteristics.

Yes, picking up on particular characteristics is a selective process, and some attributes will be passed over as a result. However, this is purely Kitten's fault and noone else's. She has herself chosen, play a particular role, she has decided to project a particular persona at the cost of any other personality trait. She did very, very little in the house that wasn't based around petty agitation.

If it's somehow unfair that she was made into a mere stereotype of a person, it's her own fault, she should have given us more of the well-rounded person you are suggesting she is rather than the very one-dimensional character that we saw for a week.

I'm not entirely sure over the point about pre-judging people and stereotypes. I'm aware of it in terms of halo effect etc., etc.. from my communication modelling days but this type of pre-judgement is found in the way we perceive all people and informed by past experiences etc., etc..

biomorph04 said: "fundamentally from the moment kitten first appeared she was a breath of fresh air and a confident model for general disobedience."

What is your view of her writing "piss off" and "**** off" on the mirrors?

[quote][php]kevin turvey...... the young ones....millie tant in viz..... a spoilt little rich girl blah dee blah

when we persistently reduce a person to nothing more than a cartoon it is usually a clear sign that we are not really perceiving that person, we are instead perceiving a ready made prejudice from inside our heads.



I think Kitten reduced herself to a cartoon parody of what she claims to be. And from what I saw she seems to have far more ready made prejudices than many here.

WOW! I was just going to put my Turvey Video on Ebay to flog!

what do you mean? piss off and f off is just ordinairy language. i think nothing of it. its just words. a bit of a laugh.

i am interested to know who it was that painted "no more war" in a prime position by the diary room door as it remains there as a permanent and honorable statement everytime we see the outside of the diary room.

it is a sad fact of life that by the age of 4 most children have absorbed and can identify basic social stereotypes.

this implies that prejudicial oversimplifications and generalisations about individuals are intensely and deeply ingrained within many peoples unguarded automatic thoughts judgements.

prejudices and stereotypes are knee jerk, and we are so comfortable with such thoughts that we tend to neglect that we are filtering reality through them.

the whole point of the much derided concept of political correctness was an attempt to make people consciously aware of these negative thinking habits.

it is only through rigorous, consistent and consciously deliberate self awareness of our own thoughts and thought paterns that we can hope to reach a more compassionate view of the diversity of human existence.

Just ordinary language for a sewer-mouthed low life, yes. In decent society we have acceptable standards that such things fail to meet.

"No more war" is honourable? Perhaps our nation should have had that noble sentiment during WW2. It would be wrong to fight a war against nazi germany. War is wrong. We should have welcomed our new overlord instead of participating in an evil war.

The person who wrote that complete nonsense was probably the racist slimeball who insulted every sinlge black person in the world by asserting that they are not capable of being racist. I wonder who that could be.

What has Kitten got against The Aristocrats?

It was a lovely film and has brought joy to children of all ages for many years.

Much easier to treat Kitten as a stereotype when she steps up to the line and volunteers to be one with trite sloganising and shouting down anyone who vaguely disagrees with her.
If she'd behaved in the house as she did in her interview with Davina she'd have had more public sympathy.

As one of those that craigh referred who has been in CND, anti war, antifascist , anti aparthed, pro many things demonstrations and campaigns for more years than I wish to admit here Kitten made me cringe. Her infantile tantrums only reinforced many peoples prejudices about "activists".

Lastly if you check out all the information from her parents , about her student activism etc it doesn't tie up with the LIES she blatantly told about her past.She used the "capitalist media" she allegedly hates to make up stories of her being pimped and giving blow jobs for ciggies.
What kind of "principled" activism is that?

I think Kitten reduced herself to a cartoon parody of what she claims to be. And from what I saw she seems to have far more ready made prejudices than many here.[/quote]



I wish I'd said that !! You hit the nail right on the head there

Whilst we are talking about stereotypes, dont forget that our judgements are based on (mostly) what the producers of BB have selected to show.

We have also seen her in her non-strident role, cooking, comforting, talking (sensibly) - but the editing has been biased to showing her at her liveliest.

This is not to say she didnt behave the way she did, just that the worst excesses were highlighted; witness her interview with Davina afterwards, a totally different person.

You have made an interesting assumption here - awareness of our way of thinking leads to compassion. I've seen little evidence to support this. Some very clear thinkers have been tyrants.

On the broader point of political correctness I find the whole concept ironic, particularly in a forum devoted to Big Brother. It was PC that introduced to the masses the concept of a thought crime, after all.

And as for Kitten: If you had 10 minutes live on TV to basically, like, I dunno, get your message across - what would it be? A rant against the Queen? Come on. She had some good points, but I'm inclined to think that these were accidental - if you keep hitting things with a hammer you will eventually hit a nail.

If a political activist wants to be treated "fairly" then a reality TV game show is hardly the 1st port of call for them. Kitten laid down with the media dogs at Endemol and walked out covered in fleas

This what I presumed you were referring to. What I didn't understand was why hang this point solely on Kitten, or any HM for that matter (I refer to your earlier 'gay' posts), as you say yourself, it happens all the time.

Getting back to Kitty, the problem is that she has given up her personality and replaced it with an agenda, I really doubt there is anymore to her than what we have seen. It's fairly obvious that she's screwed up, fragile, inflexible, opinionated, has problems relating to and hearing others, rash.

I'm sure over the next 9 weeks or so, we could have found out more about the 'whys and wherefores', but I doubt we'd see different personality traits than those we'd seen from only a couple of days.

As for stereotypes in general, as people, we just don't have the luxury of waiting 10 weeks or so to make decisions about them. It's unrealistic and unnecessary. I'm not saying we shouldn't be open-minded or only expect people to be a particular 'way' after we've made up our mind about them. As people we only learn from experience, but what use is this experience - of people, places, situations etc., etc.. - if it's not actually applied to people?

As for political correctness - I think, occasionally, it has gone too far the other way, and has become as knee-jerk and unthinking - and by that I mean lacking common sense.

Well said. She's an idiot. It's all very well to stand up for your principles but there are right and wrong ways to go about it. People compare her to a cartoon figure because that is what she became, a two-dimensional person who gets laughed at.

She is the ulitmate cliche. Everything she said sounded 30 years old and if you were made to watch the programme blindfolded you'd think she was a schoolgirl (although I still think she is).

She complains about everything but doesn't have an answer for anything.

CND etc do a great job but they are consistently let down by idiots like her that became objects of ridicule. Shouting out vague worthless slogans is not what you should be about if you want to genuinely change things. You have to go about it in a way that will get you respect.

i don't know about decent society but i know the royals say fxxx a lot.

as for the complex subject of war and nazis, lets take a look at the examples set by our current welcome overlords the americans.

mussolini once stated that "Fascism should more properly be called 'corporatism', since it is the marriage of government and corporate power."

meanwhile...

At least 150 suspected torturers from around the world are living freely in the United States
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1922654.stm

How the U.S. Secretly Fed Radioactivity to Thousands of Americans
http://www.democracynow.org/article..../05/05/1357230

"A Problem from Hell" : America and the Age of Genocide by: Samantha Power
"The United States had never in its history intervened to stop genocide and had in fact rarely even made a point of condemning it as it occurred,"
http://www.bakingshop.com/store/inde...earch-l-us.htm


American Holocaust: The Conquest of the New World by David E. Stannar
the European and white American destruction of the native peoples of the Americas was the most massive act of genocide in the history of the world.
http://books.historywiz.org/moreinfo...nholocaust.htm

The FBI and other U.S. agencies ignored the murky pasts of alleged Nazi collaborators living in the United States because the government saw them as useful during the Cold War, according to newly released records.
http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/talla...cs/8657689.htm

american Court Opens Door To Searches Without Warrants
http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/pu...cle_5960.shtml

US troop units murdered and tortured unarmed Vietnamese
( it'll google up plenty)

DONALD RUMSFELD SHAKES HANDS WITH SADDAM HUSSEIN
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/09/30/spr...nge/index.html

An exposé of how the Pentagon has been issuing a concoction of mind-altering drugs to its soldiers and airmen, resulting in the deaths of allied forces, innocent civilians and, almost certainly, their own men.
http://linktv.org/programming/progra...php4?code=need

the United States remains the world's leader in arms sales.
One third of countries spend more on the military than they do on health-care services.
Nearly half (42 per cent) of countries with the highest defence burden rank among the lowest in human development.
http://www.oxfam.org.uk/press/releas...arms_facts.htm

obesity is not America's only food problem. Too many american people are hungry
http://www.secondharvest.org/?as_grant

Gangs Of America: The Rise of Corporate Power and the Disabling Of Democracy' by Ted Nace
Corporations are the dominant force in modern life, surpassing even church and state. The largest are richer than entire nations, and courts have given these entities more rights than people.
http://www.gangsofamerica.com/

So basically ALL gay men are opressed, whether they think so or not?

I happen to disagree...I think this day & age is very pro-gay. There are many gay men & women who kiss in public, hold hands with their partners, etc - and do so freely without fear or opression.

And if we weren't gay friendly, then why oh why would E4 be showing Dan licking Jason's arse? Things like THAT didn't happen back in the day, and the fact that it's happening now shows the tolerance & acceptance - not opression.

I was a bit of an activist back in Uni, and I can personally say that Kitten was her own worst enemy. Gettiung people to listen to you is one of the hardest things to do. She had an opportunity to reach thousands of people - to educate us on what she felt was important. And she had us as a captive audience. Imagine the support for her causes she could have drummed up. She could have made a real difference. Instead, she chose to act like an unruly child. Just shows her selfishness - obviously, acting superior & committed was more important than actually bringing about any change.

Yeah, great job, Kitten.

obviously the original intent needs to be to strive for compassion. whilst "clear thinking" is not the same as conciously making an effort to guard ourselves from propagating knee jerk stereotypes.

it was orwell who introduced the concept of thought crime.

kitten used her total airtime better than any other grateful compliant housemate ever has.

Well said Biomorph, enough of listening to the rantings of the lackeys of global corporatism. The ThatcherJugend are a bunch of playground bullies and being gay does not exempt you from a far right racist. BNP and Nazis are a prime example.

Yes, biomorph04, we all know that many corporations and governments are evil. Many wars in the past have been for evil purposes.

That doesn't stop it being completely naive to say that "no more war" is good. In a perfect world war is bad. Last time I checked though, we live in a very imperfect world, and sometimes it's the only realistic option. For the record, the current war in Iraq is completely wrong in my opinion. More harm than good has been done there, and it's done little more than prove that the Americans occupation is barely if at all better than Saddam's rule.
I'm not pro-war, just pro-common sense.

Jazmin - you're missing the point. The opinions of gay people and non-white people are not important. They are incapabable of seeing their own tragic plight. They can't see thew imaginary great injustices inflicted on them every day.

Only Kitten can show us her own True Way to enlightenment.