being articulate, concise and well researched is vital in a media age.

but not everybody is capable of that. many people recognise or emotonally feel the injustices but can not yet voice it clearly enough for an editorial criteria.

that doesn't invalidate their making an effort against injustice though does it?

Sorry Gameshow Host but you really have to subtract from that figure all those killed since this ill prepared "liberation" started. Thats all those killed by "shock and awe " bombings, jumpy GI's firing at any man,woman or child in sight. Add in those who follow local custom by shooting into the air at desert wedding parties.
Next you subtract all those killed by looters,rapists,warring religious and political factions etc etc due to the US/UK flaws in "planning" for the chaotic aftermath of an ill thought out war. Flaws that were pointed out by members of the UN who Bush now wants to rescue him since he's found out the errors of his ways.
Finally subtract all those who Saddam killed - Iraqi and Iranian - when the US and UK supported his war against Iran with intelligence reports on troop positions and the use of chemical weapons provided by American and European companies. Just see the pics of Donnie Rumsfield shaking Saddams hand to see who aided and abetted him in power.
Then subtract all those 750,000 Iraqi children killed by the wilful use of sanctions to deny water treatment parts, medicines and health facilities bombed by the "coalition" in the previous Gulf War. Madeleine Albright called that " a price worth paying " but she never asked ordinary Iraqi parents for their opinion.

Saddam was a cruel dictator but lets give full credit to his backers when we draw up the balance sheet of death........

I don't see any distinction between 'protestor' and 'activist' and at the grassroots level of CND we were all the same, just people who were frightened and knew we had to do something. Those of us who could be articulate in live debates (the Joan Ruddocks) were few and far between but on paper, with time to think, we could construct valid arguments and I expect Kitten is more than capable of doing that - but on live TV? 99% of all of us would come out with babble I'm sure. CND was built by people like Kitten, that's all I'm saying, and a wonderful movement they built too.

The peace camp at Greenham Common was manned (joke ) by women who I expect will identify very strongly with Kitten. Many people in CND looked at what the Greenham Common women were doing (cutting wires at the base and invading it etc.) and thought - why are they so childish, what is the point of that - but the Greenham Common camp was the most brilliant tool in the whole anti-nuclear weapons campaign. And it was women like Kitten who were taking the risks, their actions were more powerful than all the clever words

CraigH -

Perhaps I'm the one making an imaginary distinction between a protestor & activist....to me I somewhat see an activist as someone who commits themselves to a long path or bringing about change.

As far as Kitten's concerned - she's had - at the very least 2 weeks of solitude to formuate what message she wanted to get across. Since you yourself were involved in the CND, you can surely agree with the fact that media coverage & getting your message across to as many people as possible was one of your most important tasks.

Here she was with that opportunity handed to her on a silver platter, and she blew it - with no real message - just with a string of vulgarities & taking strops. Let's not forget 'this is for the queen' cliche at the end, either. Just a bunch of pent up anger & agression.

You want to be an activist? You want to bring about change? We'll don't just scream at how ignorant people are, make crude handgestures, and buck the system at every turn just for the sake of it. To me, this behaviour showed that Kitten was less of an activist, but more of a woman-child with personal issues. The bucking of authority. The lies about prostitution. The attention seeking cries, the refusal to accept blame. Seems to me just someone with a lot of anger & needing to rebel against everything (perhaps from her father?) to stay somewhat sane.

But as far as the 'activist' in her, I saw no passion nor conviction. And she had 8 days to sway me - and I still don't know what she stands for.

[quote=Gameshow Host]Kitten thinks she cares about all these causes. But actually she's just angry and seeking attention, and wouldn't be happy unless she was trying to cause trouble.
QUOTE]


Very true. Kitten produced many politically correct soundbites and slogans but I don't remember hearing her put forward many cogent arguments or proposing solutions, it was all

'such and such is wrong'...

'(insert any non-hetero non-white social group) are oppressed'

From where I'm sitting Kitten comes from the privilegede classes.£12,000 a year schools don't come cheap.Seems like she was rejected at her school by her piers for being gay and this is the outcome,a deeply troubled little girl who just craves attention and acceptance from people.In political terms she could just as much be right-wing as left,I don't think that is really important to her.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/med...p?story=528411
"She was sent to boarding school at 14 because of her refusal to conform at her state school and her involvement with some "unsavoury" friends"

sounds more like the expensive school was a form of punishment and control on her parent's behalf. what her parents can afford does not invalidate someone from being a legitimate and well informed activist.

and just look at the posh suffragettes.

Kat gave her parents "a very rough ride" during a rebellious period at school. her father states "We certainly had it worse than some parents, but perhaps not as bad as others.'' He is reluctant to expand.

Could she have been paying homage to her favourite film, Disney's "The Aristocats"?

Indeed not, but it does not help the cause when the medium kills the message.

Missed last night's show and just saw this on the repeats.

Of all the nonsense she's spouted this week I think that's the one the future older and wiser Katherine Pinder will regret.

What a stupid, pointless, childish and utterly embarrassing thing to say. I pity the woman she will become.

Ms Pinder was remarkably composed, rational and even lucid during her post-eviction interview, admitting that she had acted idiotically and like a child. Oh, the pain of hindsight.

You're right Hetty. Amazing transformation. I don't often agree with (or indeed care about) what Davina says but she was right this time. In that situation Kitten did show an almost unbelievable sense of self-awareness.

I'll miss her on the show and I wish her luck working it out.

No more BB until tonight now. ....What to do? :s

(sighs)

She went into the bloody house knowing full well what it was about and signed a contract etc. etc. etc.

To then try and rebel (completely ineffectually) against that system for no good reason was completely pointless.

If she really cared about the world she could have spent the last three weeks doing something about it - rather than making a complete prat of herself on TV.

by becoming known she has a greater chance of utilising her notoriety in gaining press attention to any direct actions or campaigns she might get involved in. thus it might have been a well invested 3 weeks.

That would be so had she emerged with her credibility and dignity intact. As it stands, she has done the gay community and the political factions she ostensibly represents a tremendous disservice, because the media and those whose good will she needs have ridiculed her. Look at the newspapers and web headlines, then canvass opinion on this or any other Kitten thread. Few fail to dismiss her as a joke, a breakfast buffet socialist. An inept medium for a convoluted message.

A contradiction there don't you think?

If, as you claim, her rebellion was ineffective, why did they expel her?

Don't tell me it was for breaking the 'rules' - the pathetic 'strike' for writing on the mirrors showed they were deperate to give her a strike for something and just wanted any excuse to give her that third warning and get rid of her.

Shame on Channel 4! Beats me why that channel still receives taxpayers' money, it long ago abandoned it's original remit to challenge the established 'conservative' channels. ITV doesn't recieve any taxpayers money, and ITV didn't boot out Lydon.

No such thing as bad publicity

I started this thread because I was interested in any particular causes that Kitten has actually spoken about.

She has proved herself to be an effective activist (especially in civil disobedience), but newborn babies are the experts at screaming and kicking.

What has she said to the general public? What message has she tried to get across?

Class war?

The queen and aristocrats?

Did she have a Free Nelson Mandela T-shirt in her suitcase?

Really? I wonder if that opinion is shared by the married TV presenter whose affair is plastered all over the papers, or the politician whose bribes from a wealthy store owner have become common knowledge, or the popstar who finds his youthful indiscretions exposed to the world. Bad publicity has killed many a career. However, as Kitten is not a celebrity she'll be ridiculed for a while and then left alone. After all, her metier is cretinism.

You see her eviction as a testament to her success? Success in what? What has she achieved? Which minority has derived a direct, tangible benefit from her juvenile antics?
The producers of the programme don't have to make excuses to anyone. They run the show. They got rid off her because she was a liability. Like it or not - canvass opinion wherever you wish - most people have contempt for her. The eviction of another housemates because of her indiscretions would have been perceived as grossly unfair by the public.

I meant for a protest movement or an activist

You can send heavies into the tabloids' offices and shut them down immediately, wouldn't bother me one bit

its ok to disobey

Basically, she's not misunderstood. She misunderstands.

I know what you meant. No one has derived any benefit from her actions. On the contrary, her antics were wholly counter-productive. She has done a tremendous disservice to serious, committed socialist an any other faction she is held up as an example for. If that's anarchy, it's childish, pointless, selfish and profoundly anti-social - that's what people are likely to think. As a socialist she is utterly discredited, for her actions suggested a complete absence of social conscience.
I'd have no problems with the closure off tabloids, but that merely expresses my preference. Many more people would object to it - and that's what matters.

Getting the message out on TV is going to change more than talking on forums??

Maybe so, but not when some waste of space degenerate is f'ing and blind'ing on TV. Is the Queen going to go 'Oh, Dear, Pack your bags guys - some girl from Brighton doesn't like us'. I don't think so.

If Tickle or Craig had made some political statements which were sensible and backed up, young voters may have changed their opinions and made a difference.