I have noticed this before with corrie on Wednesdays it can be in the schedule but not marked for recording in the EPG the first time I left it to see what would happen it failed , so now like Big_Les to avoid earache I check it and if it’s missing in the EPG I delete the schedule and reselect it in EPG. I never noticed this happen before firmware .23 update might just be coincidence though.

During the world cup they were going to address the issue, but now as the complaints on forums and on facebook have settled down things have gone all silent again from the Humax camp.
How long away is the next big event that may affect the schedules, then the issue may get addressed.(and possibly produce another new issue)

Yes, me too. Must remember to warn my daughter to do the same and avoid earache!

They're obviously not that bothered because they're still re-transmitting this dodgy software this week and next!

Users have the choice of not accepting the update if they don't want it. Remember, the update was primarily to cure the slow response issue, particularly for 9200 owners. Personally I would prefer to have the update and accept the problems in order to not have the slow response problem. Others will no doubt think otherwise particularly those who never experienced the slow response issue. It still puzzles me why some users never experienced the slow response issue and why for some (like myself) the issue didn't occur for the first year of use but then got progressively worse.

Colin

I had only minor problems with the 9200 slow response issue but a friend here at work had major issues. She uses the main East Midlands transmitter and I use its relay. v23 has cured the problem.

Colin, I've PM'd you.

Complaints may have settled down but due to the Humax epg not being updated with changes errors do continue to happen.
I logged on expecting to be able to find comments about ITV's shift of a Thurseday episode to Wednesday and Humax not coping.
On the evening ITV1 series record this resulted in Humax missing the fourth episode of the week. On the overnight ITV2 repeat this resulted in Humax not recording the third episode of the week.
I need to leave my 9200T on V23 due to go slow down issues but so far the previous version of 9300T is looking better for my 9300T.

Isn't that what the discussion initiated by GONZO in post #44 and continued above is all about?
Assuming you are referring to Coronation Street which was affected by the UAFA match being moved from Wednesday to Thursday, some of us had successful recordings of the 20:30 episode on Wednesday. It appears that the updated EPG data had been picked up by the PVR but it had not been integrated into the EPG display correctly. The episode was show in the EPG but was not flagged to be recorded. Despite this there was an entry in Recording Schedule for the programme. Also the other programmes between 20:00 and 22:00 which replaced the football during this period were also shown in the EPG. The only anomalous entry was that there was a remnant of the football shown in the EPG for the half hour slot from 19:30 to 20:00. The above applied to my unit and I have not seen any reports to the contrary. This scenario is the same as that which was produced by the similar re-scheduling that occurred during the World Cup.

What is puzzling is that the effects on recording has been different for some users. Did you have Coronation Street set the Series Record on both your 9300 and 9200 and if so did they behave the same. Maybe the response to the issue is model related? I get the impression that most reports above have been on the 9200.

Some users have reported that they have noted the lack of flag in the EPG for Coronation Street and taken the precaution of re-scheduling the recording. This appears to have been successful suggesting the necessary data was available in the PVR. Others, including myself had successful recordings by doing nothing. This was the situation during the World Cup when any anomalies in the EPG display were corrected when the first programme in the time period affected started. I'm guessing this was triggered by the EITp/f status change at this point.

Colin

In my post I included a quote from GONZO’s post of #77 where he said “the complaints on forums and on facebook have settled down”.

Oops! I was referring to Emmerdale but forgot to say.

The whole conversation which prompted my post which you quoted was in reference to this whole fiasco.
When Humax were getting bombarded with complaints during the World Cup they said they were going to try and resolve the issue.
As I said earlier that now those complaints have settled down due to the issue not being picked up on as much due to schedules remaining pretty much normal, Humax have gone silent and don't even seem to want to reply to questions relating to the issue when posted on Facebook.
I ask myself why don't they reply? Is it because they are so busy working on a solution or is it because a Facebook page full of complaints doesn't look good and creates bad press, but the odd complaint now and then can be hidden amongst lots of other stuff so can be easily ignored.

Fair enough. I was just trying to be helpful. . As you had just re-joined the thread I thought you may have missed the earlier discussion.

Colin

Duplicate post.

Colin

Actually, I think there are more important issues that it would be nice if they were sorted. The main one IMO is the delayed starts and the late running bug is a significant problem if you record a large number of consecutive recordings in the peak viewing hours, which I do. If those two issues were cured I'd probably abandon Vestel PVRs and use another Humax to back up my 9200.

I never expected to get any future updates when I bought the 9200 but as it seems they are prepared to produce one if there are sufficient complaints. Maybe they could be persuaded to solve other issues if it is seen that it is in their interest to do so. I suspect this would only be so if the issues also affected the current models 9150 and 9300 as was the case with the recent update.

Colin

Now checked the other box which had behaved in a similar fashion and had a 51 second recording (note this box was tuned to a different transmitter in a different region).

I have finally received a reply to my complaint to the BBC regarding the start/stop signals. It is a cop out on their part.

here is their reply

“We are not aware of any problems with the broadcast of programmes or the time signal related to them around this time. With recorders it largely depends on who provides and updates the EPG on the PVR. The BBC use both Freesat plus and Freeview plus which provide an 8 day EPG and accurate recording so that in these circumstances this delay would have been picked up, not so in others. If you finds that this continues, simply add time to account for this, as the EPG may not be updated in time to trigger the recording correctly at the later time.

The only accurate junction we transmit in real-time is the Now/Next change. The EPG update does not respond to a real-time change which a recorder can start on (like PDC). It's likely that your equipment uses scheduled time to record programmes, having got the programme information from the EPG to set up the recording slot.

The BBC sends a trigger at the exact time the programme starts, but only Freeview plus DVD recorders will react to this.

In effect the vast majority of DVD /set top box manufacturers do not use the triggering functionality. This means that for Freeview viewers, even if they receive our schedule updates, the recording start/stop time will not be changed.”

I hope this helps to clarify the situation for future reference.

So pretty much "not our problem it is yours" which is the response that I should have expected regarding this issue.

So much mis-information in that reply, the writer clearly doesn't know/understand how Freeview+ operates.

Hi


All these problems are exactly like they were with PDC, with the BBC eventually recommending not to use PDC at all and that 10 minutes of over-run would catch the majority of late running programs, which it does. I spent quite some time with their technical people looking at the data sent, and how different VCRs/DVD Recorders behaved in completely different ways if there was slight timing difference with how the data was sent, and there was no way it would work 100% for everyone. The logs kept by the BBC often identifed human error for failed recordings on PDC.



Accurate recording will never work 100% due to times it is not sent in a timely manner, human error, mis-understanding of the specifications by the manufacturers or broadcasters, or hardware/software failures.

I've said it before I'll say it again, we've had no curtailed recordings or lost the very beginning or very end of programs simply by using 3 minutes of pre and 5 minutes of post padding and ditching accurate recording altogether on the Humax 9200T. Unfortunately that means losing series link, but as they could just vanish for no reason on the 9200T that was no bad thing.

The new Humax FOX T2 allows padding while still using series link and EPG tracking, so far that has proved completely reliable.

Regards

Phil

The problems I had with PDC occurred when BBC Scotland opted out of the national schedule, to show a current affairs programme or the like. The rest of the schedule were shifted later to allow the Scottish programme to be shoe-horned in. Several times the vcr stopped early or carried on past the end of the programme and into the next by a substantial amount.

I came to the conclusion that BBC Scotland were broadcasting the PDC control codes as being fed from England, without allowing for the Scottish rescheduling of programmes.

If that's the case then I don't what went wrong last night as Eastenders didn't start to record until 20:18 last night and finished at 20:30.

As I understand it, PDC works by sending a signal identifying the particular programme for the duration of the broadcast, so that wouldn't explain your experience.

The identifier is based on the scheduled date/start/end time so problems occurred when the original scheduled time was changed long enough in advance for listings magazines (and the associated VideoPlus+ codes) to get changed. Sometimes they published different VideoPlus+ codes depending on whether you were using PDC or not. In general failures resulted in the programme not recording at all rather than early or late starts and finishes.

Recorded fine for me, as did the Coronation Street episode some appear to have had problems with.

Not been using a Humax Freeview recorder, but I did use a Sony (Pioneer) Freeview recorder for almost a year. That machine has no pad / adjust options at all and the recording started and stopped with the EIT data to the second. Never lost a recording or the end of a program in all that time and that included the normally troublesome E4! This suggests to me that if the software is robust enough accurate recording on Freeview can work as it should.

Never had a problem with PDC either, it always just worked.

Eastenders recorded correctly on my Humax 9200, Vestel and Thomson TUTV PVRs all three from 20:01 to 20:00. No indication of a BBC data error there.

Colin

PDC, as implemented by the BBC, was highly flexible and could support up to four simultaneous events .... This allowed the BBC to tell one machine to go into record-pause as its programme was about to start... another machine that the programme it was recording was stopping... while a third that the programme it was recording was still going .... This was a bit difficult for some manufacturers to understand (especially those that had been in the UK, looked at how C4 did it 'off air' and decided that was how it was supposed to be.....
The BBC also had interface problems ... the programme playout systems, the programme scheduling systems and the PDC transmission systems were not designed as one item; which led to errors, mistakes and failures. This is why some parts of the BBC eventually started advising disgruntled viewers the advice not to use it (which was an error in my view). 99% of the time it worked fine.
The Nations (NI, Wales, Scotland) had their own playout machines and PDC equipment, but I believe that the PDC kit would pass London (sustaining) in the event of a fault (e.g. PC lock-up).

The standard reply given to Markynotts in post #90 is obviously a very old one used by someone with inadequate training or understanding of the training given. It was seemingly composed when the Freeview+ spec was new and virtually no machines were using it (NOT the case today).

I suspect that, although the playout and scheduling systems are more closely integrated today, they still can be brought down by manual last-moment changes.

Do you think we need to keep an open mind and accept the possibility that there may have been a broadcaster issue contributing to these incidents? There is not much evidence which supports this possibility but getting two incidents at the same time seems unlikely to be an coincidence. The discussion of the "1 minute recording bug/issue" does seems to come and go in waves which points towards something affecting multiple users around the same period of time. Although this may simply be one or two posts raising the issue which then generates responses from others.

Colin