Owen did love Tosh back, he just had such a low opinion of himself, he didn't think he deserved someone like her. But you're right - he has written that before. Although I didn't actually see it like that until you pointed it out...

I read it that the poster was questioning whether the plotline of unrequited love should be used yet again by RTD. The race of those involved is, of course, irrelevant.

Unfortunately, the poster was talking about the races of those involved... More specifically that a woman of colour is in love with a white guy who doesn't love her back.

I never saw it like that before it was pointed out - and as it only happened once, I sincerely doubt there was anything in it.

That's right. It was a theme that had turned up twice in RTD's
work, so I felt it was becoming a cliche. I have no problem with
mixed-race couples either in fiction or in real life.

Actually, I was wondering why RTD had twice used this theme of a woman from an ethnic minority (Martha / Toshiko ) being in unrequited love with a white man (the Doctor /Owen) .

Now, I am certainly not saying that RTD has prejudices against ethnic minorites-quite the opposite. Nor am I saying that romantic and martial relationships between different ethnic groups is wrong either.

Just because I mentioned that this plotline recurred twice in two series RTD was producing, I was wondering why this was. RTD has mentioned basing his plots on events that have happened to people he knows-perhaps he knew of someone in a similar situation to Tosh, and worked it into his scripts?

But, as pointed out, it was only once. The Martha/Doctor love story was a whole different kettle of fish to the Tosh/Owen love story. Tosh and Owen both loved each other, they just both had barriers to stop themselves from letting it happen. This was fairly obvious, especially in the episode when they both ultimately die.

Not sure if Owen ever really loved Tosh, at least in anything other than a platonic way, but the last episode at least had him finally treating her feelings with a modicum of respect.

According to the episode 'Adam', the feeling was entirely mutual - it just took a few different memories to let that out.

It's also well documented in the tie-in books.

I didn't get the impression that Owen ever loved Tosh in a romantc sense. Sure, he came to love and respect Tosh as a friend by the time they both died but Owen's feelings were never as strong as Tosh's.

As for this debate about RTD having women of colour as the victims of unrequited love, I can see why some people might believe this but Jack/Ianto and Jack/Gwen were also forms of unrequited love in series 1 and 2 - although some form of love did exist in these relationships - as was Owen/Diane because Diane clearly didn't love Owen enough to want to stay with him. Rose and Mickey were also a form of unrequited love for a while, with their love fizzling away entirely in the end.

RTD simply likes unrequited love stories full stop, I believe he says as much in his book A Writer's Tale.

Not to mention Jack's love for the Doctor as referenced in the conversation with Martha ' you too huh!'

But why, as a friend, would he agree to go on a date with her? Friends don't do that, knowing full well that the other has a crush on them. They then discussed this date as they were both dying. It seemed they both had great affection for each other - Owen's had been tempered slightly by his not being able to feel any real pleasures anymore (his first death).

Retrospectively, one can understand why he might be reticent to start a relationship with someone - his wife had an alien in her head, and the second person he fell for was from a different time, so disappeared back there.

When he was under Adam's influence, he was still basically the same person, and declared his love for Tosh.

You might have got that it was unrequited, I goit that it was just that Tosh was less controlled with her feelings.

Exactly. He was always so self-centred he didn't really care how Tosh felt about him, even though there could have been something there if he let himself. Love has to grow, it's not inherently there. There was the potential for love, but as it went, it was unrequited.

In real life, people go on dates with friends they aren't really attracted to all the time, just to see where it goes. Like others have said, love can take years to blossom in some cases. There's no doubt Owen liked and respected Tosh more during series 2 - hence why he agreed to go on a date - but he wasn't attracted to her in the way Tosh was attracted to him or the way Gwen and Ianto were attracted to Jack.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the line 'we never did get that date' was originally intended for Jack and Ianto, during the time when it was Ianto who was going to die in Reset and not Owen, according to Russell's book. Russell actually said that when the switch was made "lines were being re-written within hours of the episode being shot" or words to that affect, including I suspect the line where Owen asks Tosh on a date.

It's one of the reasons why many people found the Jack/Ianto relationship uneven in series 2. When Chris Chibnall wrote the scene where Jack asks Ianto out on a date in KKBB, it was when Ianto was going to die in Reset, not Owen.

With the risk of sounding like another poster who uses other forms of media in his arguments - the books paint a verydifferent story to what has been gathered from the screen, then. It is quite definitely a reciprocated love between them both. As they do have their stories tied in to the main show, and whether or not it's a ret-con as the books were written after the fact, they clearly show Tosh and Owen's mutual feelings for each other.

I think investigation will show that his real name is Russell t'cliche Davies...

Although there are only 7 plots, he seems to only be aware of 3.

Romance
unrequited love
the end of the world

mix as applicable, add cheese.

Its amazing he has any success at all in his chosen field.

RTD reveals some information about TW4 here

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/s8/...very-dark.html

I think its a case of reading too much into the similarities between Martha/Tosh...Owen /Doctor...for one all of the personalities are completely different....th only thing conncting them is an unrequited love story background...which both have different conclusions...Tosh keeps her feelings to the day she dies....Martha is completely over the Doctor, and it was really nothing more than a school-girl Crush, that she mixed in with the high regard she saw the Doctor as....but as time went by, and she became to realise her own self-worth, the Doctor and the love she had for him was changing....while Tosh remianed faithful....


All which Moff has done too...added to the fact that he also has many other themes being repeated...like Monsters with catchphrases, everybody living, Timey-wimey, answers left right to the end, telling monsters to go to bed or jusr get lost because he is the Doctor, lots of flirting etc etc etc...


In the end...if both Moff and RTD use the same themes....it hasn't done either any harm in the long run...