CE didn't have more than one episode, so didn't get a chance to develop any more. Using Tom Baker would alienate all those who haven't seen his first series.

The only way it would sound like bashing DT is if you didn't have high hopes from DT in the first place.

Again, it was because the media are doing that themselves, that is the point of this thread...

Series 2 is the only one I don't (or ever will) own on DVD.

Series 5...ordering the blu-ray.

Nuff said.

Mine:

David Tennant

New Earth - A bit of a yawner, Cassandra returning did nothing for me. Liked the face of Boe though. 6/10

Tooth and Claw - Strange episode, liked the effects on the werewolf, didn't like ninja monks, liked DT & BP's acting. 7/10

School Reunion - K9!! Anthony Head!! not enough to salvage the rest. 7/10

The Girl in the Fireplace - Brilliant. Loved the clockwork men, the madame de pomadore (sp?) and the whole thing 10/10

The Rise of the Cyberman - Slow start to the half, but by no means bad. 7/10

Age of Steel - Better, though I would have preferred the resistance to be a little less Scooby Doo. 8/10

The Idiots Lantern - Stupidest Villain yet, hammiest acting by a villain yet, terrible idea from start to finish, a few good comedy moments in it. 4/10

The Impossible Planet - Loved the acting, regulars and guests alike, enjoyed the premise, liked the Ood. 8/10

The Satan's Pit - Loved Ten facing off against "Satan" and most of the things about it. A few things were a little too obvious (Toby turning on them etc etc) but great overall. 9/10

Love and Monsters - the worst episode of Who ever?? -Agreed, but I rate it worse, I genuinely can't watch it again. 1/10

Fear Her - Second episode in a row that I genuinely can't watch again. It's better than the last, but not by much. 3/10

Army of Ghosts - Not a bad episode, but there were some moments that had me nearly screaming at the telly. How it took ten so damn long to figure out it was Cybermen again is beyond me. Some of the acting from the Torchwood one staff was a little wooden for my tastes too. 6/10

Doomsday - I was genuinely upset at the end, knew I was going to miss Rose, liked the battle between the Daleks/Cybermen, though not so great on repeat viewings. 8/10

Total: 84/130 - Average 6.46

Matt Smith

The Eleventh Hour - surely the best opening episode of New Who - Agreed, loved the introduction of eleven and Amy, fell in love with the characters instantly, moreso even than Nine and Rose. 9/10

The Beast Below - Slow, not really my thing, a little too convoluted. 5/10

The Victory of the Daleks - I tend to dislike the episodes where the Doctor meets famous people from history, not bad, though severely dislike the Power Ranger Daleks. 5/10

The Time of Angels - Very tense moments as Amy is trapped in with an Angel, loved the set up, loved eleven's monologue at the end, even if Graham Norton ruined it a bit! 8/10

Flesh and Stone - Fantastic episode, great set up for the finale, was also really thinking that this was the Doctor I wanted to watch. 9/10

Vampires in Venice - decent enough episode, a few bits put me off, and they aren't vampires, stop referring to them as such. 6/10

Amy's Choice - Really unique episode, stands out as being away from the story arc and was really original. Agreed completely. Loved the Dream Lord, very much a cross between the Joker and the Riddler, fantastic. 9/10

The Hungry Earth - Zzzzzzzzz. The mother irritated the hell out of me. The child is YOUR responsibility, not the Doctor's. She took SO LONG to realise he was gone too. Several bits from this could have been skipped, tacked on to part two and been a single episode. 4/10

Cold Blood - slow first half, brilliant second half. That's all I can say, really. Agreed. Again, cut 10 mins out of this episode somewhere and tack on ten selective minutes from episode 1 and you'd have had a great single parter too. 8/10

Vincent and The Doctor - Brilliant. That's enough. 9/10

The Lodger - thoroughly enjoyable episode, nice to see a bit of humour injected. 7/10

The Pandorica Opens - gripping, tense, well-acted, great twist, all you want from part 1 of a two parter. 10/10

The Big Bang - not quite as good as the opener, but still a great episode and left us with enough to be licking our lips at the thought of Matt's second series. 9/10

TotalL 98/130 - Average 7.54

I'm actually surprised at the jump, but considering how much I hated Love and Monsters, and Fear her, it's maybe a little less surprising. I still overall prefer series 5 to 2, but my favorite series is 4.

Unfortunately, comparisons are the name of the game with a show like Who with several people playing the same role, it can be a shame, really as long as I end up enjoying the majority of episodes, I'm a happy viewer.

Give me DT anyday over MS

As for stories I do like S5 over S2 but I'll say this mainly because Love and Monsters, Fear Her really do drag S2 down there are 2 eps I have not watched since it was on the tv just terrible. If you do take those 2 eps out I think the series are more level. As for Doctors in there first series I love both DT and MS don't like saying who is better both great.

Won't compare Doctors and you can't make me.

If it's a case of just comparing Season's 2 and 5, it surely has to be a matter of opinion and I'm ignoring the ratings side of things to give mine!

Series 2- Tooth and Claw, School Reunion, The Girl In The Fireplace, The Cybermen 2-Parter, Army Of Ghosts and Doomsday, my Fave Episode EVER, all these stories are what made Season 2 the best so far for me. Rather than the good stories been towards the end of the series as with Series 4 and 5, they were dispersed all over this Series. Unfortunately we had to have the worst episode in New Who so far in L&M, but that's just one episode and I didn't think Fear Her was that bad. As for Tennant, enjoyed his performances and chemistry with Rose, especially The Idiot's Lantern.

Season 5- The Eleventh Hour, and all the stories at the end of the season were good. Loved the time theme, especially in the last episode. Matt Smith was excellent throughout and I think if it had been him in Series 2, it would almost have been the perfect Series(Almost).

Off course if you compare all the Doctor's debut Seasons, it would seem sort of unfair. Troughton and Pertwee had average debut seasons and even Tom Baker's wasn't the best. Luckily they hit their peak much later in their respective era's. As for Sylvester McCoy's, less said the better!

The thing is I've tried (failed at times) is not to fall into the trap of comparisons with Doctors and series as it is all rather subjective and futile. Far better to enjoy the 11 doctors and the current series. If the media are bashing MS (which I think is a very small part of the media) then point out MS strengths not someone else's weakness.

yes i agree, I don't really see why one can;t do this without it descending in to accusations "your bashing x or y".

For me, series 2 of the new series was for the most part quite poor. It did have the weakest scripts overall for me, and while I grew to love DT in series 3 and 4 i find his performances in series 2 quite patchy to be honest. I also think he was almost written as a supporting character to Rose quite often! And I really didn't dig the Rose/Ten partnership at all...too smug and egotistical together for me. I felt Rose/Nine balanced each other out more. In all honesty, mid way through series 2 is the closest I ever came to stopping watching a series, it was TIP/TSP that kept me hanging on really.

In terms of series 5, I do feel Matt made his mark from the off, very strong performances throughout the series and really nailed the part and seemed to own it. The stories for me are superior for the most part too.

Totally disagree. The Beast Below, Victory of the Daleks, both dreadful imo. No reflection on Matt Smith, who I thought always played the Doctor extremely well.


Again, totally disagree. I have most of series 2, won't be buying any series 5. That's not to say some of series 2 wasn't extremely not very good.


I agree. Some people prefer MS, some DT. I didn't much like CE. It's all The Doctor, in the end.

Absolutely. I don't see the point of bashing anything. I've taken a lot of flak for my opinions over Series 5 as you know, you see Series 2 in the same way as I see Series 5 but for completely different reasons and that's what opinion is all about.
I personally enjoyed the relationship between the Tenth Doctor and Rose more but that maybe because I'm not a great fan of CE, I sometimes found his bossy attitude towards Rose quite annoying at times, I just felt DT's Doctor treated her better. I find it similar to Sarah-Jane and her relationships with the 3rd and 4th Doctor. She got on much better with the 4th Doctor in the same way as Rose got on better with the 10th. I found the relationship between them more fun and humourous though it overdoses on the love thing a little too much at times.
That's the good thing I do like about Series 5, it doesn't have that lovey-dovey stuff in it.

As for the stories, I just preferred Series 2, but Series 5 does have some exceedingly well written stories that Series 2 is lacking. that I accept. As you say though, it's a matter of opinion!

Well I don't see the point in all this bitter comparisons between series. Most of us enjoy the show (some more than most, apparently).
I enjoyed Pat Troughtons era - but hated 'The Dominators', I could say I enjoyed Jon Pertees series (But I hated the entire first series - apart from the first, Spearhead). Tom Bakers wasnt much better - but I got used to him, then it went a bit silly, then got better, then he was gone! Peter Davison was a nice jolly chap and he was OK! Colin was alright , preffered his first series rather than that an excuse for a second one (Trial..). Sylvestor - well what can we say?
Never liked him but gave him a chance.
Paul McGann - never had a chance, but he was good.
Chris Eccleston - Brilliant (Fantastic) new Doctor!
David Tennant - Introduced the New Doctor properly.
Matt Smith - Has done a brilliant job bringing the Doctor back to being a bit eccentic , funny and emotional.

You cannot really compare 'seasons' (as they call it now). It's just a matter of taste. I Love them all!

Absolutely loathed Tennant's first season, the weakest by far of the new series (and that's saying something when it's up against his second and third). Smith's first season was what nu-Who should have been like all along. Just excellent-and the best Doctor since 1996.

Yet again I find your point of view difficult to disagree with.

This...totally.

I honestly liked Rose in Series one and was air-punching at the 'Bad Wolf' reveal. By the tenth minute of 'Tooth and Claw' I wanted to punch her lights out. And then beat Tennant up with her unconscious body.


Twice.

Well considering a lot of people are giving their ratings for the episodes of 2 and 5. So I'll thought I'll post the results from the poll I did a few weeks back. Since 40-50 opinions are better than the opinion of 1.

The average for series 2 was 6.24 - lowest episode Fear Her (3.18), highest rated ep Girl in the Fireplace (8.22)

The average for series 5 was 7.63 - lowest rated episode Victory of the Daleks (5.29), highest rated episode The Pandorica Opens 9.11

So the ratings were a big difference. The same people voted for each season, so it's fair.


But these are not ratings talking about Matt or David's acting ability, they are purely about the episode. So it just means Matt had better episodes to work with than David. The writers may have had more trouble writing scenes for David than Matt, or they just didn't have very good stories lol.

I do MUCH prefer Series 5 over 2, and that is down to everything, from the stories, to David/Matt and Amy/Rose and the relationship between them. But series 2 was series 2, and it was early on, the wrote the episodes before Series 1 had even aired, so they didn't even know how well received the series would be!

Or maybe it just shows the difference between RTD and Moff.

Jeez this is a large thread for me, and I've been working a 12 hour shift today. Maybe that's why I'm rambling. Tired now, bed here I come!

Paul the Octopus says Matt.

I think we need to bear in mind that Who still got great figures considering the World Cup and the fantastic weather we were having. I reckon if it was shown now it would top 6 million per episode (minus WC, gadge weather now) and peak with maybe 7/8 million for the finale. This is a good sign. It could have gone a lot worse. I remember when people were saying that Doctor Who would be "unimaginable" without Tennant. Look where we are now.

One person grading it is about as subjective as you can get.

Some people didn't like the overarching story arc in series 2 which was set up entirely so they could lose Rose too early with an excuse for it. That and the viewers monster producing one show that looked as if it was written by a 5 year old. Some others of us might think that the overall story arch for series 5 was far too laboured and ponderous (shades of Black Guardians and keys to Time) and series 5 has been built around the need to solve the in love but can't be in love problem caused by the companion. Both series end in triumphs - not least because the companions are so strong.

My comments:

Series 2

New Earth - hardly spectacular, but it makes a genuine effort to touch on themes of intimacy, embodied in Cassandra, and counter-pointed by the zombies - thoughtful, but it didn't quite gel for me as a whole. 6/10

Tooth & Claw - very traditional Who-fare - fans seem to like this one - I found it a little dull in truth - 6/10

School Reunion - casting the very rubbish Krillitanes aside, I found this a striking episode that made an effort to say something about the effect that the Doctor has upon his companions - well-acted, fun and powerful - 9/10

The Girl In The Fireplace - for me, this episode was only as good as you could believe the Doctor's attaction to Madame du Pompadour. And I couldn't. Hence, dreadful....1/10

Rise Of The Cybermen / The Age Of Steel - OK, so it's a bit of a romp but, for my money, this pair of episodes genuinely succeeded in driving home the horrors of cybernisation - well produced and affecting, so I'm probably the only fan on the planet who would give this 10/10....but there you go!

The Idiot's Lantern - boring rubbish, maybe slightly elevated by efforts to characterise the son, and the nana without face was quite creepy, I guess...5/10

The Impossible Planet / The Satan Pit - probably Nu-Who's creepiest episode to date, but I didn't think it did all that much with it. Entertaining, but forgettable...7/10

Love & Monsters - a genuine attempt to do something different with the show - I found it well-acted, superbly characterised, moving, witty and it had something to say. Fans may hate it, but it's a 10/10 from me.

Fear Her - I suppose you could argue that this was a back-to-basics episode for the Doctor, but I found this pretty abysmal - 1/10

Army Of Ghosts - fun, enjoyable and exciting - just what episode 12 is there for, really...8/10

Doomsday - Some fans may find the beach scene a bit over-done, but, for me, it was a very natural and thoughtful progression from the events of 'School Reunion'. I think there have been better finales, but still...8/10

Series 5

The Eleventh Hour - great first half, slighty lacking second half, but, overall, a welcome start for Doc 11 - 8/10

The Beast Below - incoherent and muddled attempt at a political dystopia. This *should* have been good, but fell woefully short...but I guess points for trying - 4/10

Victory Of The Daleks - fun stuff with a jammy dodger just couldn't atone for the most cynical, most poorly scripted, most badly-acted and most badly characterised piece of 'Doctor Who' I've seen in many, many years...utterly abysmal - 1/10

The Time Of Angels / Flesh & Stone - fun, enjoyable romp marred by dialogue lifted straight out of 'Baywatch'...8/10

The Vampires Of Venice - schoolboy w**k fantasy saved by a strong performance from Smith and an interesting face-off with Helen McCrory...5/10

Amy's Choice - a dreadful first half quickly turned into fun parody as the Doctor dispatched all of those killer grannies. And Gillan proved she can act! About bleedin' time! 7/10

The Hungry Earth / Cold Blood - dull, dumb and desperate sequel to 'Doctor Who & The Silurians' that didn't convince on any level. Only when the plot switched to something that wasn't the plot did this become even the slightest bit entertaining. 3/10

Vincent & The Doctor - the only true gem of the season gave us a thoughtful, quiet, intelligent and tasteful insight into depression, and concluded in a way that was both simple and moving - 10/10

The Lodger - So, how does the Doctor act if he tries to live like us? Well, Gareth Roberts did a great job exploring this theme, tho' maybe got slightly bogged down in the silly sci-fi sub-plot - kudos to Corden for a welcome understated performance - 8/10

The Pandorica Opens - fun and exciting romp that made great strides in crystallising Moffat's 'Who-niverse' - 9/10

The Big Bang - disappointing conclusion that eschewed drama for plot convolution, and, in doing so, collapsed under its own weight. Vague notions of a dark truth behind the fantasies of children weren't developed anywhere near enough, and I suspect this episode will be remembered more for what it teased, rather than for what it actually did. Gotta love the fez and the mop, tho'! 5/10

Regards,

Cypher

Erm, Eccleston had 13 episodes. And why should it be assumed that no-one missed Eccleston's series but a significant number wouldn't have seen Tom Baker?


It would have been impossible to lose Rose 'too early' IMO. Anyway, she had about the standard length for a companion-two years. Very few have stayed longer.

I loved the 10th Doctor from his opening words to Rose at the end of 'Parting of the Ways'. And I thoroughly enjoyed 'The Christmas Invasion' and season 2. It does contain possibly my favourite single episode of new Who - School Reunion.

Season 5 and the 11th Doctor - more of a slow burn for me. But, as pointed out to me by other forum members, Season 5 was entirely new - new Doctor, new companion, new TARDIS, new theme tune, new exec producer . . so a lot more to get used to.

All in all, I still prefered season 2 but I am enjoying the ride with the 11th Doctor and Amy now I'm used to them.

School Reunion is another of fave episodes as well. What I like about it is the fact Sarah got a proper chance to say goodbye to The Doctor. I always found it odd that after nearly four years of travelling that Sarah went so abruptly in The Deadly Assassin, it just didn't seem right, so was pleased RTD brought her back to make amends. Also thought it was a bit of a reality check for Rose as she saw what her future could be through Sarah, plus off course the return of K9!

Yes - and (as it turns out) an equally abrupt departure for Rose at the end of 'Journey's End'. Especially since she thought she would find the Doctor and then start travelling with him again.

Still, at least she ended up with the human version of the 10th Doctor (phwoargh!) . . all Sarah got was the tin dog.

Of course its all about opinions rather than facts but i believe Matts first series was on such a higher level to Davids in both the delivery of the character and quality of the scripts. I think its generally excepted that series 2 is the least popular of NuWho.