Yep. He said he's not human, which he isn't. He didn't say he didn't have any human in him. It's up in the air. (Grrr. *shakes fist at whoever put that stuff in the movie*)


To be fair the claim was of inter-species canoodling, not specifically Time Lord. Or have I missed a point?

And so were the statements by both the Doctor and the Master in the TV Movie, which have never been specifically addressed. And they came first.

Oddly enough I would probably normally agree with you in that I like my DW to be action packed, but I think "Vincent" was such an excellent episode in so many ways that it has become one of my favourites.

The fact that the Doctor's actions could have contributed to Vincent's suicide is one of the things that makes it great, imo. We can't know what the results of our actions will be we can only try to alleviate someone's pain as best we can. The episode didn't shy away from presenting that fact. The audience's knowledge of the suicide makes the scene in the museum more poignant.

As for the music, surely when you watch a drama you are tacitly giving permission for some emotional manipulation?

In My Opinion

New Earth-7/10
Tooth and Claw-8/10
School Reunion-8/10
The Girl in the Fireplace-7/10
Rise of the Cybermen-8/10
The Age of Steel-9/10
The Idiot's Lantern-6/10
The Impossible planet-7/10
The Satan Pit-6/10
Love and Monsters-7/10
Fear Her-6/10
Army of Ghosts-9/10
Doomsday-10/10

Total-99

The Eleventh Hour-6/10
The Beast Below-7/10
Victory of the Daleks-6/10
The Time of Angels-7/10
Flesh and Stone-9/10
The Vampires of Venice-7/10
Amy's Choice-7/10
The Hungry Earth-8/10
Cold Blood-7/10
Vincent and the Doctor-6/10
The Lodger-7/10
The Pandorica Opens-10/10
The Big Bang-7/10

Total-94

Close buy personally I'd rate the episodes of season 2 as being better than the most recent season 5 episodes. I was less bored by episodes in DTs first season. That being said I think MS is a more instantly excellent Doctor.

So episodes wise I'd say Season 2 wins.
But for impact as Doctor, Matt wins for me. He's not as good overall as DT yet, not surprisingly it's only been 13 episodes, but I fully expect him to overtake DT as my favourite Doctor if he sticks around for the next season and into the one afterwards as well, he's a great actor.

For me Season 5 was let down by a weak assistant in Amy who I just couldn't connect with at all, Rory was far superior but Rose trumps them both.

No, it would have been better if the "Rose thing" as you call it had never happened at all.

So did not crossing his own timeline but you seem to have no problem with him now doing that! And another poster has stated that the half human conundrum was resolved in the books and you are one of the few people who regard the books as canon.

This is my feeling on this episode, however I thought the production was excellent as was the actor who played Vincent. I must adimt that I'd give both Vincent & Girl in the fireplace a 7. Both very watchable episodes but nowhere near my favourites.
Both actors (DT and MS) make an instant impact as the Doctor in their first series. I think they both nailed it in their own way as the Doctor. Unfortunately both were hampered by some dull and dire episodes.

Every season is going to be a mixture of hit and miss.... As the production team and writers are trying to please everyone...

I mean the beast below for me was the highlight of the last season....and I know im in a minority of 1

Yet a comparison is a little unfair as SM & MS have had a lot more obstacles to overcome than RTD did in season 2. Even the Dalek episode was great considering they have been done to death now! Lest we forget Daleks in manhatten (Shudder).... Some parts of season 5 did not work for me I must admit but at least its fresh and new and introduced a unique story arc which did not rely on classic enemies....

Think you'll find I had my tongue firmly in my cheek there. Though i do think a female Dr would be the death for the series.

[quote=tingramretro;42064906]It hasn't, y'know. Not properly.

Discarded by who? Only by some fans. The programme makers have yet to address it, really. Yes, to all outward appearances, which is probably why some people who haven't really thought through the whole 'alien' thing happily accept this nonsense. But in all other respects, humans and Time Lords are not the same, not even remotely-we don't live for several centuries and have a completely alien ability to change our entire bodies, for a start. It could not work. It is never stated that Susan or Andred are Time Lords, only that they are Gallifreyan.QUOTE]

Not sure what that means really? Susan and Andred being Gallifreyan makes them the same race, if not the same caste, as the Doctor, yet both Leela and David Campbell were most definitely human. And as for Romana and the Tharill, well that one must really have got your goat!

I actually think the comparison between these seasons is rather apt; both very much ebbedand flowed. But they are quite similar IMO:

each had a rubbish 2 parter (Cybermen & Silurians)
each had a great 2 parter ("Satan" & angels)
both had good opening stories
both were let down by their second stories
both had some shockers (love & monsters; fear her; amy's choice; Vincent and the doctor) coming in second half of season
both had fantastic first eps for finale
both were let down by ep 13

I disagree with some of this. The Cybermen and Silurian 2 parters I didn't think were that bad in themselves and I prefer them to the other 2 parters you mentioned.

Tooth and Claw is the only Second Episode story I have actually enjoyed over all five series and is far better than The Beast Below, in that it had humour and didn't bore me rigid for 45 minutes, even though Matt Smith was quite good in it.

And Doomsday is the only Episode 13 that is better than 12 over all 5 series. The Big Bang was a letdown after The Pandorica Opens but Doomsday was better than Army Of Ghosts due to the impact of Rose's Departure though Army Of Ghosts was a good episode in it's own right.

The real question is whether you believe that the Doctor (DT) is the same person as the Doctor (MS) is the same person as the Doctor (CE). If you believed that then the comparisons don't make sense. Generally I'm a complete fan and always believe they're the same, except for series 2. I always thought Rose was cheating on the Doctor (CE) by being all lovey dovey with the Doctor (DT).

Oh right! Sorry - humour detector on the blink there. Agreed dont see the need for gender change. Dont think they ever will. They have a bit of fun teasing about it sometimes .

What about Romana and the Tharil?
And there is at least some evidence to suggest that Time Lords and non Time Lord Gallifreyans are not the same. Time Lords appear to be genetically augmented in some way according to The Two Doctors, so it would make sense that ordinary Gallifreyans don't share Time Lord gifts like regeneration, making inter species marriage less of an issue.

I never thought of it that way!

But I never believed in the Rose/CE relationship anyway, it didn't ring true to me.

And you're right, they are all the Doctor.

In my mind the Rose/CE relationship was more real than the Rose/DT relationship. They seemed to have an inherent understanding and warmth for each other, whereas the Rose/DT relationship seemed at times a bit too forced and too romantic (I'm talking about the characters of course, not the actors).

Rose and CE seemed to be a bit like the third doctor and Jo, if that makes sense.

Fortunately when it comes to continuity the more recent the better.

RTD went to reasonable lengths to write the half-human rubbish out of continuity without going to the extent of saying the movie didn't happen. Then Moffat has pushed it further away with Matts reaction to interspecies canoodling!

Agreed.

I've said elsewhere that I always imagined that when Galifreyans become Time Lords they get their substance re-written and thats when they get their regenerations and resistance to the rigours of time travel and other weirdness we've seen.

Who says? To me, what came first has priority.
I can't see that either of them have done any such thing. The movie's statement stands.

I wouldn't call Girl in the Fireplace all action! Sorry, but in my view, apart from the performances, Vincent and the Doctor has got nothing going for it. There's a difference between a low action story and one where the characters just go for a long walk. The monster is absolutely dreadful, and the last 15 minutes are a cynical, overblown attempt to draw on the heartstrings. Compare that with Girl in the Fireplace whose ending was underplayed and so much better for it. (But I respect your right to love Vincent )

Yep, that's my take on it, too. I assume Susan was taken from Gallifrey before she had a chance to graduate from the Academy and qualify as a Time Lord (assuming she would have) so she never got the physical 'upgrade' and was biologically basically human.

I was referring in my post to the romantic aspect of the relationship in reply to the post by hajua.

Now, Im not very au fait with CE's series, and maybe I'm wrong here, but wasn't there supposed to be a bit more to the relationship than just warmth and understanding? As in The Doctor Dances 2-parter? (My favourite episodes of series 1 btw).

I would have thought that the Doctor would have had a fair idea that taking someone who was mentally unstable on a trip in the Tardis to the future and then just dumping him back in his own time would not be very good for his mental state! Vincent would surely think the whole thing was not real and a manifestation of his illness. If he had tried to talk to anyone about it he would have been even more derided.

I find practically every episode of Cardiff Who interchangeable -- minor variations on a set paradigm. Certainly nowhere near enough difference to pose this Vs question. To find any significant contrast, you'd have to go back a long way. An obvious example being Pertwee's first "Quatermass" season compared to Troughton's first.