you should read james burk's book connections from 1979

[quote=AidanLunn;42494787]It's not and here's why:
1) The disc is much smaller
2) It is made out of entirely different materials
3) The data is stored digitally instead of using analogue encoding



Yes, they have the same very basic principles, but all similarities end with it being a disc with data stored on it, and their application of use. All similarities end there. It can hardly be the same thing when the most important aspects of it (i.e. using a laser, storing digital information etc) are different.



Yes, we use mechanisms in VCRs and DVD players, but that hardly constitutes mechanical TV. Mechanical TV is if a *Nipkow disc* is used in either the *TV set* or *camera*. A blue-ray player is not a TV camera or set, neither does it use a Nipkow disc. So it is not mechanical TV as in the system that Baird used. It is a device for electronic TV that happens to use a mechanism to function. I hope this finally breaks this link you seem to obsess over between Baird and Blue-Ray/DVD/VHS or whatever.



Doesn't matter whether they didn't just use the Nipkow disc, they still used discs with lenses to scan and reproduce the image.



And how many of those are used in the electronic TV system? Not many may be a little optimistic.

Baird invented the worlds first electronic colour CRT



>
I personally believe that Baird didn't invent what we call TV. he invented *a form of* TV that was fatally flawed and could be beaten quite effectively by the electronic rivals being cooked up by genuine electronics engineers elsewhere in the world (Baird, as it has been said, was not a qualified electronic engineer, probably the reason why his system failed. He wasn't fully qualified to understand and build electronic circuits.) >>>>>>>>>>>



if this is the case why are the BBC still using the Baird process every time they show a film ?

The Baird system was used to send live colour TV from the moon

The European Meteosat weather satellite uses the mechanical system to transmit weather pictures

The BBC picked the Marconi emi system for TV it is now dead as has being pointed out there is no CRT in TV cameras and there is no CRT in the home either because we use LCD and LED for display

but 80 years later the mechanical system of TV is still in use by the BBC and ITV for showing films on TV and the space programs of USA and Russia and Europe all use mechanical TV systems

I think the University of Strathclyde will take offense at your comments as Baird was a qualified electrical engineer

who was the first in the world to demonstrate television not shadowgrafs like Jenkins and not a blob like farnsworth

No i think you are confused, satellites were primitive, few, and low power in those days. Established communications routes might have had more infrastructure for sending some video, but those were between established countries. I hardly think there was much satellite coverage let alone the transmitters/antennas in the falklands to acomplish this feat.

Lol now we are going from "connections". Yes i'm sure by that standard davinci and the first farming hoe is responsible for bluray. Be reasonable. There is no concensus of mainstream historians that give baird as much credit as you do, you are alone in this level of exagerration.

what on earth are you on about satellites where primitive in the 1960s and 70s The BBC and ITV and CBS etc have being exchanging TV programs via Satellite since the 60s how on earth could we watch Apollo 11 moon walk live on TV in 1969 how do you think the BBC showed live coverage of the olympic games in mexico in 1968?????????????

see-

The first satellite television signal was relayed from Europe to the Telstar satellite over North America in 1962. The first geosynchronous communication satellite, Syncom 2, was launched in 1963. The world's first commercial communication satellite, called Intelsat I (nicknamed Early Bird), was launched into synchronous orbit on April 6, 1965. The first national network of satellite television, called Orbita, was created in Soviet Union in 1967, and was based on the principle of using the highly elliptical Molniya satellite for re-broadcasting and delivering of TV signal to ground downlink stations. The first domestic North American satellite to carry television was Canada’s geostationary Anik 1, which was launched in 1972.[1] ATS-6, the world's first experimental educational and Direct Broadcast Satellite, was launched in 1974. The first Soviet geostationary satellite to carry Direct-To-Home television, called Ekran, was launched in 1976.

You are overstating the level of ease they had transmitting live footage by a wide margin. Apollo missions are hardly day to day newscasts, they had infrastructure, tons of cash, and plenty of time in advance to prepare for such things, the giant recieving dishes/antennas were setup well in advance. Its nothing comparable to the situation with the falklands or some random place on the planet. Show me the proof that they could have simply sent tons of footage back to the uk from the falklands at that time with no problem at all, you can't. Show me which satellites were in the right position and free for use and which transmitters/recievers they had access to in the right locations at the time. Go ahead.

I'm not sure why you are talking about geostationary orbits. Have you checked the globe? The uk is very far from the falklands, satellite range is not unlimited. Repeaters and such only add to the complexity and make it even less likely. Non geostationary and its only got a tiny useful window for anything. Geostationary orbits for bouncing signals within a country are relatively easy, its not comparable.

what the hell has this got to do with the title, Are Baird tvs any good

Well you say "biard" and robert will come to "educate" you on how he invented the ps3.

It was answered in the first reply - NO!

TV pictures from the falklands war where uplinked by the Royal Navy using a portabile Earth station to the UK millitery Skynet global satelite system video was scaned using the Baird process of telecinie and then uplinked

because of the falklands war the goverments since then have invested in the UK sky net satellite program

see-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet

I don't see why you single out the BBC. All films are transferred in similar ways.

Anyway, i don't think that much film you see on TV is transferred from film to VT/HDD by the broadcaster or even the production company, more like an independent company whose profession is transferring films to TV.

Baird's Telecine system was very similar in operation principles to a modern telecine machine anyway, I don't think it had a Nipkow disc. You might as well say it is of the electronic system anyway, as even though it was invented by Baird, it was not like his mechanical TV camera or TV set.


Wrong. It used a camera pickup tube, like all other electronic TV cameras of the time.


I doubt it does, seeing as it transmits digital pictures.


Many homes use CRT TVs, and some are still being made and sold in poorer but growing economies, like China.

I know for a fact that X-ray cameras use pickup tubes.


. No. It's not.

You seem to be confusing the shutter inside film projectors and telecines with a Nipkow disc. They are not the same thing.

A telecine machine converts the image on film to electric signals using CCDs. Even though the pickup technology is different, it still counts as the Marconi-EMI system because it doesn't use a large Nipkow disc.


1) It was the Royal Technical *College*, Glasgow.
2) He passed that course, yes.
3) To be properly qualified as a true electrical engineer, you have to take up a related course at *University*.
4) It was the University of Glasgow where he went on to study another degree in Electrical engineering and physics. He didn't pass this course because during his time at this establishment, World War One broke out and he had to leave this course to fight in the trenches. He promised to return to finish the course but he never did - therefore unqualified.


He was *allegedly* the first in the world to develop and demonstrate television, however other countries dispute this, because they don't think you can count Baird's system as "real" television, and there were many more limits on worldwide communications at the time, making it difficult for newspapers and scientific journals to report the marvellous discoveries by very clever men in their respective countries, so one country claims that their "father of TV" invented it because there wasn't much communication with other countries at the time regarding such things.

We thought that Baird demonstrated the TV first because of our limited communications with people in the US or Russia or wherever.

As such, we'll probably never genuinely know who is the true father of television.

Television satellites back then, like today, were ONLY used for relaying live events.

Back then as today, the majority of programmes are still copied from tape to tape for sale overseas and are NOT relayed to the foreign station showing that programme via satellite.

Satellites back then weren't in geostationary orbit, meaning they spun on their own axis round the Earth rather than following the Earth as it goes round, staying at the exact same point above the Earth all the time (this is a geostationary orbit). The satellite does NOT move at the same speed as the Earth, this is an oversimplification. In order to stay above the same point on the Earth, a satellite has to move at a faster speed, because it is on an axis wider than the circumference of the Earth.

On its first transmission, Telstar could only be recieved for a maximum of 10 minutes before it would disappear over the horizon.

I'm sorry but there is nothing on there nor on the page you actually meant that states this.

Please give us a source that does state what you say.

I know all this I was trying to reply to somone else who seems to be confused about satellite tv geostationary satellite where in use from the late 1960s and used by broadcasters to televise live events like the Olympics

this is all a diversion over over the nonsense that Baird did not invent the television or mechanical television is not real television its like saying that a film camera is not a real camera because it is not digital

all electronic tv did not happen until the 1930s TV evolves like outher technology

By "not real TV", I meant it is not the system that we would call TV.

have found this on the internet which explains how the TV was up linked to satilite during the falklands -

see

Seventeen newspaper reporters, two photographers, two radio reporters and three television reporters with five technicians sailed with the Task Force to the war. The Newspaper Publishers' Association selected them from among 160 applicants, excluding foreign media. Due to the hasty departure, not all of them were "the right stuff": two journalists on HMS Invincible were interested in nothing but Queen Elizabeth II's son Prince Andrew.[90]
Merchant vessels had the civilian Inmarsat uplink, which enabled written telex and voice report transmissions via satellite. Canberra had a facsimile machine that was used to upload 202 pictures from the South Atlantic over the course of the war. The Royal Navy leased bandwidth on the US Defense Satellite Communications System for worldwide communications. Television demands a thousand times the data rate of telephone, but the MoD was unsuccessful in convincing the US to allocate more bandwidth. TV producers suspected that the enquiry was half-hearted; since the Vietnam War television pictures of casualties and traumatised soldiers were recognised as having negative propaganda value. However the technology only allowed uploading a single frame per 20 minutes - and only if the military satellites were allocated 100% to television transmissions. Videotapes were shipped to Ascension Island, where a broadband satellite uplink was available, resulting in TV coverage being delayed by three weeks.[91]



this is from -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falklands_War



By "not real TV", I meant it is not the system that we would call TV.

in the 1920s it was the only way to do television after Baird there was several mechanical TV stations in the USA and Russia also Baird set up TV in both Germany and France

Electronic TV did not replace Mechanical TV until the late 1930s , mechanical TV has survived to the present day for applications where all electronic systems are not sutibile

in the 1960s mechanical TV was selected for the moon landings due to the sise of a colour tv camera of the time it was to big to take to the moon

Baird system was analogue but we now use Digital transmission again this just another variation of TV technology

This is from Wikipedia. Don't trust it, as anyone can type a load of babble on there.

Plus, I'm certain you said that the satellite feed for the Falklands came from the Falklands themselves, not from Ascension Island?

I said that they where uplinked from a royal navy ship

which was almost certainly the case but there was TV coverage even though the MOD restricted what you saw

no tv was transmitted direct from the Falklands

1) It was the Royal Technical *College*, Glasgow.
2) He passed that course, yes.
3) To be properly qualified as a true electrical engineer, you have to take up a related course at *University*.
4) It was the University of Glasgow where he went on to study another degree in Electrical engineering and physics. He didn't pass this course because during his time at this establishment, World War One broke out and he had to leave this course to fight in the trenches. He promised to return to finish the course but he never did - therefore unqualified.


The royal technical college is now the university of strathclyde it was renamed in the 1960s this was where Baird studed electrical engineering

He did not leave to fight in the war because he was declared unfit for service due to his poor health

you should read some of the books about Baird because you dont seem to know much about him or mechanical TV

Originally Posted by Robert__law
The Baird system was used to send live colour TV from the moon
Wrong. It used a camera pickup tube, like all other electronic TV cameras of the time.


it used a monchrome camera pick up tube with a colour filter weel in front of the lens , this was a system patented by John logie Baird in the 1940s a similer electro mechanical system was used by CBS in the early 1950s for colur TV

He still left because of the war.

It is now known by the name of the University of Strathclyde, yes, but at the time it was known as Glasgow University, thus "he studied at Glasgow University". It was not the University of Strathclyde back then, so how could he have studied at the UoS if it didn't exist?

I don't know as much about baird as you think you know because there isn't really much need to remember what he pioneered.

Baird studied at the royal technical college and went on to glasgow university both are separate institutions


Baird invented television he was the first person in the world to demonstrate a working system which he showed to the royal Society in 1926 it might not be important to you

but it is for other people

Isn't the major part of any invention the idea in the first place??

Without Nipkow, Baird would be unknown.

The idea of scanning and sequentional transmission dates back into the 19th C.

Alexander Bain (A Scot.. Fax Machine..1846), Frederick Bakewell (English,,,image - fax..around 1850), a French bloke and Nipkow to mention just 4.

Baird was the first person to achieve Television in the world

his patents include colour and 3d and video recording

and also the first all electronic colour crt telechrome tube

in 1945 he had all electronic 3D colour television in HD 1000 lines an no need for silly spectical lenses either

you can run him down as much as you want it still duse not change the fact the he was first and set up the worlds first TV station in 1928 " 2TV" something we should all be proud of our country was the first in the world with television

I'm sorry but how can you possibly know he patented all this when different countries dispute different thjings?