I phone 4 not worth the money.

Gormond · 20-07-2010, 21:52

Quote:

Appreciate it is seriously off topic - but Neo Wales started it.

A friend has just collected an Aygo and has extolled its virtues, looks like that'll the next little 'un for me too.

Unless, of course its plagued with faulty brakes / accelerator like every other Toyota ever made (according to the press)

Oops, in danger of sliding back on topic.

Sorry

ROFL yeah quite a few people asked me if I had problems with the Aygo and almost couldn't believe that it works fine... Strange it remind of another one of my purchases...

lininjim · 20-07-2010, 22:24

What can I say? I bought my (and the wifes) 32GB iP4's on launch (yes £600 each!!) and tonight I called Apple for a return and refund on mine!!!!
Why?

Simple, the white one will be here in two weeks

Oh and the boss's is also being returned (for a replacent), to be honest the speech clarity on hers was woeful, chap I spoke to seemed to think he'd heard of this before and it could be the noise cancelling mic actually cancelling her! (no sarcy comments please).

Have to use my SE P990i for the next fortnight aarrgghh

lalaland · 20-07-2010, 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by dontpannic

No, common sense alert actually.

That's debatable when you consider the next parts of your post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dontpannic

Most of the OP's complaints don't wash, its the same thing over and over and to be honest I'm past caring.

And yet they are the OP's views which they have chosen to create a thread about. If you are past caring then why take part in the thread? Seems a lack of common sense really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dontpannic

All of these arguments can be solved with one paragraph.

If you don't like the iPhone don't buy one. If you bought one and you don't like it, take it back.

There's no point coming onto forums, and bitching. And bitching. And bitching. Its just a stuck record and its getting absolutely ridiculous now.

This is a discussion forum, it's here for people to discuss topics. The OP has created a topic which has quite a few replies. Seems fair enough to me. If you dislike the topic it's up to you if you want to take part or not. If it's a topic where more than one person with a certain product is complaining then perhaps they are quite useful because people will get the idea that there's possibly an issue here before they themselves buy the product. Even if not, they are clearly the personal views of individuals who are taking part in a discussion forum.

Soundburst · 20-07-2010, 23:56

Loved the song Apple played at the start of the keynote showing the facts and statistics from both Apple and their major phone provider in the states AT&T

Let's all sing this song.

If you don't want an iPhone 4:

Don't buy it.

If you bought it and you don't like it:

Bring it back.

If you don't want an iPhone 4:

Don't buy it

If you bought it and you don't like it:

Bring it back. . . .but you know you won't.

- In most cases here it seems people can't bring it back anyway. . .as they don't own it in the first place

RED_ · 21-07-2010, 00:02

None of the iphones were worth the money they are going for, maybe the first one because it was something new (kind of). They are all pieces of crap. Simple things like changing your ringtone has to be done by an external program. Haven't gone into the full details yet but this whole iphone thing is not how Apple are letting you use the phone, its how they want you to use the phone. Its built so that you can only use it the way they want you to, therefore they can have more control over their product. It was recently found that they can track every single iphone in the world without the users knowledge. Anyway thats besides the point.

The features in the iphone 4 are only just catching up with rivals yet everyone seems to love it. The notification system is rubbish, you can only have one notification at once. Completely limits the device. Apps dont update themselves unless you go into the app, i.e if you do not go into an app for a week or so the phone will not know if the app has an update, where as on other devices you dont have to do anything, you will notifications about everything as soon as they become available. Simple stuff like browsing is a lot faster on platforms like android as well as android have desktop apps, so you get real-time updates without having to open any apps.

One other thing that really is laughable is the fact that the iphone still does not have social networking integration, i mean really? this is a feature that lots of people use and have been asking for, for a long time yet nothing has been done, another example of Apple forcing you to use the phone the way they want you to.

I really dont know how anyone can put up with itunes because that really is one bad software program. Even that limits what you can do with the phone. Most other phones keep their software very simple so that drag/drop becomes available for every other task.

I didnt want to turn this post into an Android vs iphone thing but really is there anything else to compare the iphone to? So i shall go on. Android comes with a built in navigation system with streetview, traffic view and lots of other capabilities. Its free, i dont have to pay £70 for it.

Just one more thing that really want to mention and thats facetime, it good that Apple has made it available but they also chucked it a lot of restrictions with it too. First of all its wifi only and second its only iphone to iphone. Once again Android have already bettered this with their version that they have been working on for quite a while (not released yet). Their app lets you interact with any device that has flash on it. I can be sitting on the computer and have a video chat with someone on their phone on the other side of the world. This android flash app can basically be used on all pcs/phones etc.

Just a little note as well, this isn't a big i hate apple rant because i was considering buying the iphone over android but didnt in the end. Its a very one sided post because i just want to highlight how you can get a better and cheaper phone with your money. Not many people realise this. I could go on way more than this because it the iphone lacks behind a lot more than people think.

this is a decent article that highlights the benefits of picking a n android device that is cheaper: http://blogs.computerworld.com/16281...e_4_vs_android

you can google each of the features in that article to learn more as they don't really explain anything.

pocatello · 21-07-2010, 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundburst

I'm merely putting things in perspective by showing that a massive majority of those most outraged at iPhone 4 share one thing in common - a lack of ownership. My gripe is more with them than singing the phones praises - you see from my reading on this forums it seems if you actually own the phone you are really happy with the purchase and suffer no massive problems compared to other phones. If you don't own the phone then there are massive issues with the phone

Bingo, its the deal killer for those who never were going to buy one. 3 million people aren't dropping calls left and right. Theres a lot of nerd rage coming from dark places on this issue.

lalaland · 21-07-2010, 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundburst

Loved the song Apple played at the start of the keynote showing the facts and statistics from both Apple and their major phone provider in the states AT&T

Let's all sing this song.

If you don't want an iPhone 4:

Don't buy it.

If you bought it and you don't like it:

Bring it back.

If you don't want an iPhone 4:

Don't buy it

If you bought it and you don't like it:

Bring it back. . . .but you know you won't.

- In most cases here it seems people can't bring it back anyway. . .as they don't own it in the first place

When you hear that do you stand to attention with a hand on your chest and another in the salute position. A single solitary tear rolling down your cheek as you proudly sing your anthem in front of a large statue of Jobs?

The topic here is laughing at Jobs and his tantrum. Regardless of owning a phone, taking it back, liking it, disliking it, everyone can join in together and laugh at the poor way this has all been handled. Even the media are enjoying a dig at him as I linked to initially.

Of course fanboys aren't going to like the above, but there you go....

moox · 21-07-2010, 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by lalaland

When you hear that do you stand to attention with a hand on your chest and another in the salute position. A single solitary tear rolling down your cheek as you proudly sing your anthem in front of a large statue of Jobs?

The topic here is laughing at Jobs and his tantrum. Regardless of owning a phone, taking it back, liking it, disliking it, everyone can join in together and laugh at the poor way this has all been handled. Even the media are enjoying a dig at him as I linked to initially.

Of course fanboys aren't going to like the above, but there you go....

I find it quite interesting that he has to wade into all of these threads that he dislikes so much, complains about non-owners "whining" about the way Apple has handled it (and you don't really need to own an iPhone to experience that), then will eventually claim that he is leaving the thread, only to come back once someone mentions something vaguely anti-Apple.

Soundburst · 21-07-2010, 00:12

To be fair Steve probably LOVES it. As I've said. . .Toyota had a faulty brakes recall resulting in actual injuries and possibilities of death - people who don't own the car don't give a toss. Apple release a phone and suddenly nerd rage takes over that Apple have another successful product

3 million + iPhone's sold as the haters watch on crying shouting on every forum they can:

"but the antenna!!!! YOU CAN'T MAKE CALLS ON THE PHONE!!!!!".

All the while, the actual people with the phone are calling each other sniggering:

"Yep. I'm looking on the forums. . LMAO at them. Here we are. On the phone. As they cry that we bought one even though they tried their hardest to tell us not too".

Meanwhile in Cupertino. . .Steve Jobs counts up Apples record breaking profits this quarter thinking to himself. . ."if iPhone 4 sold 3million + in a month with the media in an orgasmically delicious story and all the haters getting hot and bothered telling everyone not to buy it . . .what will iPhone 5 sell

. . . .I'm gonna have to get a bigger yacht."

lalaland · 21-07-2010, 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocatello

Bingo, its the deal killer for those who never were going to buy one. 3 million people aren't dropping calls left and right. Theres a lot of nerd rage coming from dark places on this issue.

Bingo nothing. The thread's about Jobs and his tantrum and the poor handling of the whole situation with the design fault on the iPhone 4. However some people feel it's time to defend Apple, some even disputing facts, and it's off from there.

You are entitled to have an opinion on Jobs ranting like a child whether you own or don't own an iPhone

Sadly it appears you can't discuss anything on the iPhone without fanboys being attracted to defend it

lalaland · 21-07-2010, 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundburst

To be fair Steve probably LOVES it. As I've said. . .Toyota had a faulty brakes recall resulting in actual injuries and possibilities of death - people who don't own the car don't give a toss.

Actually it was kind of a big thing. Plenty of press coverage and people talking about it. One thing that is noticeable is that there wasn't hoards of Toyota Fanboys popping up everywhere denying facts and saying "you don't own a Toyota, you cannot speak of the device".

In fact I was thinking, if Apple owned BP how things would be different.

"No, it's not our fault, your oceans are incompatible with our oil!"

"Hey, other oil has caused problems somewhere else in the world at some point, stop criticising us"

"Water is old, out of date and full of security flaws."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundburst

Apple release a phone and suddenly nerd rage takes over that Apple have another successful product

If you feel you need to label people discussing an issue or article as Nerd Rage then that's fine, but it seems to me that you are just looking to label people negatively for daring to criticise your chosen brand. That to me seems nerdy....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundburst

3 million + iPhone's sold as the haters watch on crying shouting on every forum they can:

Not at all. It's actually more a case of the followers being lead in an almost cult style to defend their chosen brand to the end. The only emotion driven posts, with hints of anger, are coming from fanboys when they've seen I was trying to discuss Jobs latest appearance in the press.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundburst

"but the antenna!!!! YOU CAN'T MAKE CALLS ON THE PHONE!!!!!".

Let's not be silly. We all know there's a design fault on the iPhone 4, sarcasm won't fix it and it seems neither will Apple for now. They'd rather issue an iPhone shaped Condom for those who 'hold it wrong'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundburst

All the while, the actual people with the phone are calling each other sniggering:

Seems a waste of a phone call really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundburst

"Yep. I'm looking on the forums. . LMAO at them. Here we are. On the phone. As they cry that we bought one even though they tried their hardest to tell us not too".

You really think people want to stop you buying one? Wow, you really are sucked well in to this aren't you? What's next, suicide iBelt on as you walk towards the nearest non-Apple phone owner?

Calm down, it's just a phone. Nobody gives a damn what you've bought or not bought. If you like it, good for you. It's not worth getting upset about. And try to keep calm while people discuss the design fault and the poor way it's been handled, again it's just a brand. Life's so much more, try living a little....

The one thing that comes to mind is if Apple simply handled this better from the start this would be an almost non-story and the need for the Fanboys to get irate, as Soundburst appears to be doing by suggesting people are trying to stop them buying iPhones (

) would have nothing left to moan about. They could instead preach the word of Jobs instead, door to door.

Soundburst · 21-07-2010, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by lalaland

Actually it was kind of a big thing. Plenty of press coverage and people talking about it. One thing that is noticeable is that there wasn't hoards of Toyota Fanboys popping up everywhere denying facts and saying "you don't own a Toyota, you cannot speak of the device".

In fact I was thinking, if Apple owned BP how things would be different.

"No, it's not our fault, your oceans are incompatible with our oil!"

"Hey, other oil has caused problems somewhere else in the world at some point, stop criticising us"

"Water is old, out of date and full of security flaws."

If you feel you need to label people discussing an issue or article as Nerd Rage then that's fine, but it seems to me that you are just looking to label people negatively for daring to criticise your chosen brand. That to me seems nerdy....

Not at all. It's actually more a case of the followers being lead in an almost cult style to defend their chosen brand to the end. The only emotion driven posts, with hints of anger, are coming from fanboys when they've seen I was trying to discuss Jobs latest appearance in the press.

Let's not be silly. We all know there's a design fault on the iPhone 4, sarcasm won't fix it and it seems neither will Apple for now. They'd rather issue an iPhone shaped Condom for those who 'hold it wrong'

Seems a waste of a phone call really.

You really think people want to stop you buying one? Wow, you really are sucked well in to this aren't you? What's next, suicide iBelt on as you walk towards the nearest non-Apple phone owner?

Calm down, it's just a phone. Nobody gives a damn what you've bought or not bought. If you like it, good for you. It's not worth getting upset about. And try to keep calm while people discuss the design fault and the poor way it's been handled, again it's just a brand. Life's so much more, try living a little....

The one thing that comes to mind is if Apple simply handled this better from the start this would be an almost non-story and the need for the Fanboys to get irate, as Soundburst appears to be doing by suggesting people are trying to stop them buying iPhones (

) would have nothing left to moan about. They could instead preach the word of Jobs instead, door to door.

To be fair I didn't read all that. I stopped reading when you said "you label people with nerd rage" when in actual fact people like you throw the label "fanboy" around like they're morning after pills are butlins coming off with nonsense like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by lalaland

When you hear that do you stand to attention with a hand on your chest and another in the salute position. A single solitary tear rolling down your cheek as you proudly sing your anthem in front of a large statue of Jobs?

Oh 3 million+ sales. . .all from "cult followers" who are "sucked in". The iPhone 4's critical and commercial success makes me happy for one simple reason - it clearly get's people absolutely furious!

psionic · 21-07-2010, 01:14

Quite a few inaccuracies in your post, need to be cleared up...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RED_

Simple things like changing your ringtone has to be done by an external program.

Changing your ringtone is not a problem. You can buy them too. But to make your own, you can do it from within iTunes manually, but it's fiddly - a lot easier to use an external utility, or alternatively there are apps that give you a wide selection of free ringtones. The main problem is you cannot make your own message tones.

Quote:

It was recently found that they can track every single iphone in the world without the users knowledge.

Only if you turn on location services. BTW the cell towers are tracking you too, regardless

Quote:

The notification system is rubbish, you can only have one notification at once. Completely limits the device.

Not true, besides there are several types of notifications, Broadcast Notifications, Push Notifications and Local Notifications.

Quote:

Apps dont update themselves unless you go into the app, i.e if you do not go into an app for a week or so the phone will not know if the app has an update.

Not true, the App Store App on the device itself periodically checks for updates and displays a badge (prominently on your home screen) showing how many need updating. They can all be updated at once from there. The individual Apps do not update themselves

Quote:

One other thing that really is laughable is the fact that the iphone still does not have social networking integration

It doesn't directly have OS support for social networking no. It's left up to the apps themselves and loads of apps integrate with Facebook and Twitter etc. to share information

Quote:

I really dont know how anyone can put up with itunes because that really is one bad software program. Even that limits what you can do with the phone. Most other phones keep their software very simple so that drag/drop becomes available for every other task.

It's well publicised that it's a closed system and managed by iTunes. You can of course drag and drop from within iTunes as much as you like. Even to and from your FS but iTunes remains the intermediary communcation between your computer and your phone. However out of iTunes all you can drag and drop are the camera stuff (ie photos and video clips).

Quote:

Android comes with a built in navigation system with streetview, traffic view and lots of other capabilities. Its free, i dont have to pay £70 for it.

Streetview, traffic view etc. are built in. If you want turn by turn spoken directions apps are available for free. If you want to spend a bit, one of the best Sat Nav apps (and there are many) is about £20.

Quote:

Just one more thing that really want to mention and thats facetime, it good that Apple has made it available but they also chucked it a lot of restrictions with it too. First of all its wifi only and second its only iphone to iphone.

The API's are available to apps and one of the free instant messaging apps had already managed to use them for Skype calls. Skype stopped them though as it looks like they are going to bring out their own app using FaceTime.

pocatello · 21-07-2010, 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by lalaland

Bingo nothing. The thread's about Jobs and his tantrum and the poor handling of the whole situation with the design fault on the iPhone 4. However some people feel it's time to defend Apple, some even disputing facts, and it's off from there.

You are entitled to have an opinion on Jobs ranting like a child whether you own or don't own an iPhone

Sadly it appears you can't discuss anything on the iPhone without fanboys being attracted to defend it

Once again, most people aren't hanging on jobs every word and emotion. They use their phone, and now have a free bumper. Theres no emotional issue of following steve jobs around like some kind of obsessed fan....as i said, its telling those who are exhibiting nerd rage on this issue arent or would never have been a customer anyways.

Gormond · 21-07-2010, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by psionic

Quite a few inaccuracies in your post, need to be cleared up...
Changing your ringtone is not a problem. You can buy them too. But to make your own, you can do it from within iTunes manually, but it's fiddly - a lot easier to use an external utility, or alternatively there are apps that give you a wide selection of free ringtones. The main problem is you cannot make your own message tones.Only if you turn on location services. BTW the cell towers are tracking you too, regardlessNot true, besides there are several types of notifications, Broadcast Notifications, Push Notifications and Local Notifications.Not true, the App Store App on the device itself periodically checks for updates and displays a badge (prominently on your home screen) showing how many need updating. They can all be updated at once from there. The individual Apps do not update themselvesIt doesn't directly have OS support for social networking no. It's left up to the apps themselves and loads of apps integrate with Facebook and Twitter etc. to share informationIt's well publicised that it's a closed system and managed by iTunes. You can of course drag and drop from within iTunes as much as you like. Even to and from your FS but iTunes remains the intermediary communcation between your computer and your phone. However out of iTunes all you can drag and drop are the camera stuff (ie photos and video clips).Streetview, traffic view etc. are built in. If you want turn by turn spoken directions apps are available for free. If you want to spend a bit, one of the best Sat Nav apps (and there are many) is about £20.The API's are available to apps and one of the free instant messaging apps had already managed to use them for Skype calls. Skype stopped them though as it looks like they are going to bring out their own app using FaceTime.

You know I read that post and noticed all that nonsense too but couldn't be bothered posting lol. You wonder if people like that have actually used an iPhone...

psionic · 21-07-2010, 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gormond

You know I read that post and noticed all that nonsense too but couldn't be bothered posting lol. You wonder if people like that have actually used an iPhone...

I was bored...

neo_wales · 24-07-2010, 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallhund

Something worse than SAL are the even sadder Apple Haters (SAH).

Oh dear, you mean the imaginary problems.

I will give you if you hold the phone in the wrong way it you could have a problem. Then again if you put petrol in your diesel engined car it might not like it very much.

"I will give you if you hold the phone in the wrong way it you could have a problem" Yes, its a FLAW IN AN APPLE PRODUCT lol

Back to the far more interesting Smart Car, I like the look of them, my daughter had one and they always remind me of my little Renault 4 back around 1975

fluffsta007 · 24-07-2010, 03:53

Jsut a quickie..

My mate got his new Iphone 4 today and for some reason its been activated today by his carrier but he has no way of connecting to the internet or itunes through the phone. No G reception whatsover. I must admit though I own a Iphone 3GS 32gb and the camera is ok but its much better of the new Iphone.

lalaland · 24-07-2010, 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocatello

Once again, most people aren't hanging on jobs every word and emotion. They use their phone, and now have a free bumper. Theres no emotional issue of following steve jobs around like some kind of obsessed fan....as i said, its telling those who are exhibiting nerd rage on this issue arent or would never have been a customer anyways.

Pocatello, be careful with the use of the phrase 'nerd rage'. I called someone a fanboy and when they realised they were losing the debate they used this against me hitting the report button and got me suspended for two days.

If Fanboy is offensive then Nerd Rage certainly is too, however I won't run with tears in my eyes to the report button I'll approach you like an adult and point this out so you realise

As for the suggestion behind your phrase, I suspect you are suggesting that people are somehow against the iPhone and this is a malicious act towards it. I can obviously only speak in my case, but nothing is further from the point. I actually considered buying one a few months back before I saw the HTC Desire and realised that was a much better option for me. The iPhone just appears to be a hot topic to discuss at present due to the poor reaction and handling of the recently discovered design fault by Apple and the amusing tantrum like behaviour that Jobs has shown in the media. There's certainly no malice towards a product.

Someone mentioned Toyotas on an iPhone thread. I wouldn't buy one of those either due to the recent fault press. However I wouldn't go on a mission to stop others buying them, that's their choice, it's just that I prefer products that I don't consider myself to be faulty.

kosmos5457 · 24-07-2010, 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by moox

I find it quite interesting that he has to wade into all of these threads that he dislikes so much, complains about non-owners "whining" about the way Apple has handled it (and you don't really need to own an iPhone to experience that), then will eventually claim that he is leaving the thread, only to come back once someone mentions something vaguely anti-Apple.

At first it may have been handled poorly if Jobs initial email that was sent to a customer stating "Just avoid holding it in that way" was true. I happen to think that the matter has been dealt with rather well and in the correct way.

After all the media had forced the issue and pushed Apple for explanations and this was the clear way forward for them to host the conference. I can also understand why Jobs might not have allowed certain ones from the press into the conference as there has been so many negative articles already published about what is old news now anyway.

I don't think it's been handled poorly at all. This thread is about one saying the iPhone is not worth the money, rather than about poor handling of the matter.

Jobs has said, they are willing to refund those who have bought cases for the iPhone 4, which is fair enough, they are allowing customers who purchase an iPhone 4 before the end of September the option of one from a range of cases or returning the phone for a full refund. There is nothing unfair about that offer.

moox · 24-07-2010, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosmos5457

I don't think it's been handled poorly at all. This thread is about one saying the iPhone is not worth the money, rather than about poor handling of the matter.

I was commenting on a certain person's attitude.

But, handling it properly does not mean "deny the problem. try and blame the entire industry when it's just your product that has this specific fault, create propaganda "proving" the same, still deny the problem, release a new software fix that is nothing more than cosmetic, then give out free cases just before the return period is up.

Properly handling it would be admitting that they got it wrong (never going to happen, as it's Apple and Jobs extolled the virtues of the "revolutionary" antenna), announcing there was a proper fix in the works, and allowing people to exchange or repair when it happens. Perhaps then a free bumper or case would not be so bad.

alanwarwic · 24-07-2010, 11:28

It is all a perception problem.

If people perceive the iPhone to be worth an extra £500 then they are welcome to it.
My guess it that, released September, the 'coated' white iPhone will not have this problem with the current model being discontinued in its current guise.

It will not be renamed.

psionic · 24-07-2010, 12:24

An Extra £500 compared to what - not having or using any phone? It's £499 SIM-free and unlocked which means you could use any cheapo SIM only deal with data bundle from any Network.

-GONZO- · 24-07-2010, 12:50

I certainly cannot justify paying the price for the iP4. I couldn't even justify the price for the 3GS either which I do have.
If it wasn't for the fact that Three offered it to me for £30 then I would of never even considered an iPhone at all.
Spending upto £600 on a mobile phone is just crazy.

Gormond · 24-07-2010, 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by -GONZO-

I certainly cannot justify paying the price for the iP4. I couldn't even justify the price for the 3GS either which I do have.
If it wasn't for the fact that Three offered it to me for £30 then I would of never even considered an iPhone at all.
Spending upto £600 on a mobile phone is just crazy.

They aren't really mobile phones anymore though, They are pocket computers. In fact I probably only use mine as a phone about 10% of my usage time on the device. But hey I spent £1400 on a computer so have no problem spending £600 on a pocket computer.

But hey some people spend 20k on a car which I think is crazy lol, I guess it just depends on what floats your boat.

20-07-2010, 21:52	#76
Gormond Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 15,714	Quote: Originally Posted by Dan Sette Appreciate it is seriously off topic - but Neo Wales started it. A friend has just collected an Aygo and has extolled its virtues, looks like that'll the next little 'un for me too. Unless, of course its plagued with faulty brakes / accelerator like every other Toyota ever made (according to the press) Oops, in danger of sliding back on topic. Sorry ROFL yeah quite a few people asked me if I had problems with the Aygo and almost couldn't believe that it works fine... Strange it remind of another one of my purchases...

21-07-2010, 00:24	#86
lalaland Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 11,539	Quote: Originally Posted by Soundburst To be fair Steve probably LOVES it. As I've said. . .Toyota had a faulty brakes recall resulting in actual injuries and possibilities of death - people who don't own the car don't give a toss. Actually it was kind of a big thing. Plenty of press coverage and people talking about it. One thing that is noticeable is that there wasn't hoards of Toyota Fanboys popping up everywhere denying facts and saying "you don't own a Toyota, you cannot speak of the device". In fact I was thinking, if Apple owned BP how things would be different. "No, it's not our fault, your oceans are incompatible with our oil!" "Hey, other oil has caused problems somewhere else in the world at some point, stop criticising us" "Water is old, out of date and full of security flaws." Quote: Originally Posted by Soundburst Apple release a phone and suddenly nerd rage takes over that Apple have another successful product If you feel you need to label people discussing an issue or article as Nerd Rage then that's fine, but it seems to me that you are just looking to label people negatively for daring to criticise your chosen brand. That to me seems nerdy.... Quote: Originally Posted by Soundburst 3 million + iPhone's sold as the haters watch on crying shouting on every forum they can: Not at all. It's actually more a case of the followers being lead in an almost cult style to defend their chosen brand to the end. The only emotion driven posts, with hints of anger, are coming from fanboys when they've seen I was trying to discuss Jobs latest appearance in the press. Quote: Originally Posted by Soundburst "but the antenna!!!! YOU CAN'T MAKE CALLS ON THE PHONE!!!!!". Let's not be silly. We all know there's a design fault on the iPhone 4, sarcasm won't fix it and it seems neither will Apple for now. They'd rather issue an iPhone shaped Condom for those who 'hold it wrong' Quote: Originally Posted by Soundburst All the while, the actual people with the phone are calling each other sniggering: Seems a waste of a phone call really. Quote: Originally Posted by Soundburst "Yep. I'm looking on the forums. . LMAO at them. Here we are. On the phone. As they cry that we bought one even though they tried their hardest to tell us not too". You really think people want to stop you buying one? Wow, you really are sucked well in to this aren't you? What's next, suicide iBelt on as you walk towards the nearest non-Apple phone owner? Calm down, it's just a phone. Nobody gives a damn what you've bought or not bought. If you like it, good for you. It's not worth getting upset about. And try to keep calm while people discuss the design fault and the poor way it's been handled, again it's just a brand. Life's so much more, try living a little.... The one thing that comes to mind is if Apple simply handled this better from the start this would be an almost non-story and the need for the Fanboys to get irate, as Soundburst appears to be doing by suggesting people are trying to stop them buying iPhones () would have nothing left to moan about. They could instead preach the word of Jobs instead, door to door.

21-07-2010, 00:26	#87
Soundburst Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 12,850	Quote: Originally Posted by lalaland Actually it was kind of a big thing. Plenty of press coverage and people talking about it. One thing that is noticeable is that there wasn't hoards of Toyota Fanboys popping up everywhere denying facts and saying "you don't own a Toyota, you cannot speak of the device". In fact I was thinking, if Apple owned BP how things would be different. "No, it's not our fault, your oceans are incompatible with our oil!" "Hey, other oil has caused problems somewhere else in the world at some point, stop criticising us" "Water is old, out of date and full of security flaws." If you feel you need to label people discussing an issue or article as Nerd Rage then that's fine, but it seems to me that you are just looking to label people negatively for daring to criticise your chosen brand. That to me seems nerdy.... Not at all. It's actually more a case of the followers being lead in an almost cult style to defend their chosen brand to the end. The only emotion driven posts, with hints of anger, are coming from fanboys when they've seen I was trying to discuss Jobs latest appearance in the press. Let's not be silly. We all know there's a design fault on the iPhone 4, sarcasm won't fix it and it seems neither will Apple for now. They'd rather issue an iPhone shaped Condom for those who 'hold it wrong' Seems a waste of a phone call really. You really think people want to stop you buying one? Wow, you really are sucked well in to this aren't you? What's next, suicide iBelt on as you walk towards the nearest non-Apple phone owner? Calm down, it's just a phone. Nobody gives a damn what you've bought or not bought. If you like it, good for you. It's not worth getting upset about. And try to keep calm while people discuss the design fault and the poor way it's been handled, again it's just a brand. Life's so much more, try living a little.... The one thing that comes to mind is if Apple simply handled this better from the start this would be an almost non-story and the need for the Fanboys to get irate, as Soundburst appears to be doing by suggesting people are trying to stop them buying iPhones () would have nothing left to moan about. They could instead preach the word of Jobs instead, door to door. To be fair I didn't read all that. I stopped reading when you said "you label people with nerd rage" when in actual fact people like you throw the label "fanboy" around like they're morning after pills are butlins coming off with nonsense like this: Quote: Originally Posted by lalaland When you hear that do you stand to attention with a hand on your chest and another in the salute position. A single solitary tear rolling down your cheek as you proudly sing your anthem in front of a large statue of Jobs? Oh 3 million+ sales. . .all from "cult followers" who are "sucked in". The iPhone 4's critical and commercial success makes me happy for one simple reason - it clearly get's people absolutely furious!

20-07-2010, 22:24	#77
lininjim Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Swadlincote Posts: 1,647	What can I say? I bought my (and the wifes) 32GB iP4's on launch (yes £600 each!!) and tonight I called Apple for a return and refund on mine!!!! Why? Simple, the white one will be here in two weeks Oh and the boss's is also being returned (for a replacent), to be honest the speech clarity on hers was woeful, chap I spoke to seemed to think he'd heard of this before and it could be the noise cancelling mic actually cancelling her! (no sarcy comments please). Have to use my SE P990i for the next fortnight aarrgghh

20-07-2010, 22:41	#78
lalaland Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 11,539	Quote: Originally Posted by dontpannic No, common sense alert actually. That's debatable when you consider the next parts of your post. Quote: Originally Posted by dontpannic Most of the OP's complaints don't wash, its the same thing over and over and to be honest I'm past caring. And yet they are the OP's views which they have chosen to create a thread about. If you are past caring then why take part in the thread? Seems a lack of common sense really. Quote: Originally Posted by dontpannic All of these arguments can be solved with one paragraph. If you don't like the iPhone don't buy one. If you bought one and you don't like it, take it back. There's no point coming onto forums, and bitching. And bitching. And bitching. Its just a stuck record and its getting absolutely ridiculous now. This is a discussion forum, it's here for people to discuss topics. The OP has created a topic which has quite a few replies. Seems fair enough to me. If you dislike the topic it's up to you if you want to take part or not. If it's a topic where more than one person with a certain product is complaining then perhaps they are quite useful because people will get the idea that there's possibly an issue here before they themselves buy the product. Even if not, they are clearly the personal views of individuals who are taking part in a discussion forum.

20-07-2010, 23:56	#79
Soundburst Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 12,850	Loved the song Apple played at the start of the keynote showing the facts and statistics from both Apple and their major phone provider in the states AT&T Let's all sing this song. If you don't want an iPhone 4: Don't buy it. If you bought it and you don't like it: Bring it back. If you don't want an iPhone 4: Don't buy it If you bought it and you don't like it: Bring it back. . . .but you know you won't. - In most cases here it seems people can't bring it back anyway. . .as they don't own it in the first place

21-07-2010, 00:02	#80
RED_ Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: London Posts: 1,284	None of the iphones were worth the money they are going for, maybe the first one because it was something new (kind of). They are all pieces of crap. Simple things like changing your ringtone has to be done by an external program. Haven't gone into the full details yet but this whole iphone thing is not how Apple are letting you use the phone, its how they want you to use the phone. Its built so that you can only use it the way they want you to, therefore they can have more control over their product. It was recently found that they can track every single iphone in the world without the users knowledge. Anyway thats besides the point. The features in the iphone 4 are only just catching up with rivals yet everyone seems to love it. The notification system is rubbish, you can only have one notification at once. Completely limits the device. Apps dont update themselves unless you go into the app, i.e if you do not go into an app for a week or so the phone will not know if the app has an update, where as on other devices you dont have to do anything, you will notifications about everything as soon as they become available. Simple stuff like browsing is a lot faster on platforms like android as well as android have desktop apps, so you get real-time updates without having to open any apps. One other thing that really is laughable is the fact that the iphone still does not have social networking integration, i mean really? this is a feature that lots of people use and have been asking for, for a long time yet nothing has been done, another example of Apple forcing you to use the phone the way they want you to. I really dont know how anyone can put up with itunes because that really is one bad software program. Even that limits what you can do with the phone. Most other phones keep their software very simple so that drag/drop becomes available for every other task. I didnt want to turn this post into an Android vs iphone thing but really is there anything else to compare the iphone to? So i shall go on. Android comes with a built in navigation system with streetview, traffic view and lots of other capabilities. Its free, i dont have to pay £70 for it. Just one more thing that really want to mention and thats facetime, it good that Apple has made it available but they also chucked it a lot of restrictions with it too. First of all its wifi only and second its only iphone to iphone. Once again Android have already bettered this with their version that they have been working on for quite a while (not released yet). Their app lets you interact with any device that has flash on it. I can be sitting on the computer and have a video chat with someone on their phone on the other side of the world. This android flash app can basically be used on all pcs/phones etc. Just a little note as well, this isn't a big i hate apple rant because i was considering buying the iphone over android but didnt in the end. Its a very one sided post because i just want to highlight how you can get a better and cheaper phone with your money. Not many people realise this. I could go on way more than this because it the iphone lacks behind a lot more than people think. this is a decent article that highlights the benefits of picking a n android device that is cheaper: http://blogs.computerworld.com/16281...e_4_vs_android you can google each of the features in that article to learn more as they don't really explain anything.

21-07-2010, 00:03	#81
pocatello Inactive Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 8,622	Quote: Originally Posted by Soundburst I'm merely putting things in perspective by showing that a massive majority of those most outraged at iPhone 4 share one thing in common - a lack of ownership. My gripe is more with them than singing the phones praises - you see from my reading on this forums it seems if you actually own the phone you are really happy with the purchase and suffer no massive problems compared to other phones. If you don't own the phone then there are massive issues with the phone Bingo, its the deal killer for those who never were going to buy one. 3 million people aren't dropping calls left and right. Theres a lot of nerd rage coming from dark places on this issue.

21-07-2010, 00:07	#82
lalaland Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 11,539	Quote: Originally Posted by Soundburst Loved the song Apple played at the start of the keynote showing the facts and statistics from both Apple and their major phone provider in the states AT&T Let's all sing this song. If you don't want an iPhone 4: Don't buy it. If you bought it and you don't like it: Bring it back. If you don't want an iPhone 4: Don't buy it If you bought it and you don't like it: Bring it back. . . .but you know you won't. - In most cases here it seems people can't bring it back anyway. . .as they don't own it in the first place When you hear that do you stand to attention with a hand on your chest and another in the salute position. A single solitary tear rolling down your cheek as you proudly sing your anthem in front of a large statue of Jobs? The topic here is laughing at Jobs and his tantrum. Regardless of owning a phone, taking it back, liking it, disliking it, everyone can join in together and laugh at the poor way this has all been handled. Even the media are enjoying a dig at him as I linked to initially. Of course fanboys aren't going to like the above, but there you go....

21-07-2010, 00:10	#83
moox Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 14,645	Quote: Originally Posted by lalaland When you hear that do you stand to attention with a hand on your chest and another in the salute position. A single solitary tear rolling down your cheek as you proudly sing your anthem in front of a large statue of Jobs? The topic here is laughing at Jobs and his tantrum. Regardless of owning a phone, taking it back, liking it, disliking it, everyone can join in together and laugh at the poor way this has all been handled. Even the media are enjoying a dig at him as I linked to initially. Of course fanboys aren't going to like the above, but there you go.... I find it quite interesting that he has to wade into all of these threads that he dislikes so much, complains about non-owners "whining" about the way Apple has handled it (and you don't really need to own an iPhone to experience that), then will eventually claim that he is leaving the thread, only to come back once someone mentions something vaguely anti-Apple.

21-07-2010, 00:12	#84
Soundburst Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 12,850	To be fair Steve probably LOVES it. As I've said. . .Toyota had a faulty brakes recall resulting in actual injuries and possibilities of death - people who don't own the car don't give a toss. Apple release a phone and suddenly nerd rage takes over that Apple have another successful product 3 million + iPhone's sold as the haters watch on crying shouting on every forum they can: "but the antenna!!!! YOU CAN'T MAKE CALLS ON THE PHONE!!!!!". All the while, the actual people with the phone are calling each other sniggering: "Yep. I'm looking on the forums. . LMAO at them. Here we are. On the phone. As they cry that we bought one even though they tried their hardest to tell us not too". Meanwhile in Cupertino. . .Steve Jobs counts up Apples record breaking profits this quarter thinking to himself. . ."if iPhone 4 sold 3million + in a month with the media in an orgasmically delicious story and all the haters getting hot and bothered telling everyone not to buy it . . .what will iPhone 5 sell . . . .I'm gonna have to get a bigger yacht."

21-07-2010, 00:12	#85
lalaland Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 11,539	Quote: Originally Posted by pocatello Bingo, its the deal killer for those who never were going to buy one. 3 million people aren't dropping calls left and right. Theres a lot of nerd rage coming from dark places on this issue. Bingo nothing. The thread's about Jobs and his tantrum and the poor handling of the whole situation with the design fault on the iPhone 4. However some people feel it's time to defend Apple, some even disputing facts, and it's off from there. You are entitled to have an opinion on Jobs ranting like a child whether you own or don't own an iPhone Sadly it appears you can't discuss anything on the iPhone without fanboys being attracted to defend it

21-07-2010, 01:14	#88
psionic Forum Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Crystal Palace TX Posts: 19,702	Quite a few inaccuracies in your post, need to be cleared up... Quote: Originally Posted by RED_ Simple things like changing your ringtone has to be done by an external program. Changing your ringtone is not a problem. You can buy them too. But to make your own, you can do it from within iTunes manually, but it's fiddly - a lot easier to use an external utility, or alternatively there are apps that give you a wide selection of free ringtones. The main problem is you cannot make your own message tones. Quote: It was recently found that they can track every single iphone in the world without the users knowledge. Only if you turn on location services. BTW the cell towers are tracking you too, regardless Quote: The notification system is rubbish, you can only have one notification at once. Completely limits the device. Not true, besides there are several types of notifications, Broadcast Notifications, Push Notifications and Local Notifications. Quote: Apps dont update themselves unless you go into the app, i.e if you do not go into an app for a week or so the phone will not know if the app has an update. Not true, the App Store App on the device itself periodically checks for updates and displays a badge (prominently on your home screen) showing how many need updating. They can all be updated at once from there. The individual Apps do not update themselves Quote: One other thing that really is laughable is the fact that the iphone still does not have social networking integration It doesn't directly have OS support for social networking no. It's left up to the apps themselves and loads of apps integrate with Facebook and Twitter etc. to share information Quote: I really dont know how anyone can put up with itunes because that really is one bad software program. Even that limits what you can do with the phone. Most other phones keep their software very simple so that drag/drop becomes available for every other task. It's well publicised that it's a closed system and managed by iTunes. You can of course drag and drop from within iTunes as much as you like. Even to and from your FS but iTunes remains the intermediary communcation between your computer and your phone. However out of iTunes all you can drag and drop are the camera stuff (ie photos and video clips). Quote: Android comes with a built in navigation system with streetview, traffic view and lots of other capabilities. Its free, i dont have to pay £70 for it. Streetview, traffic view etc. are built in. If you want turn by turn spoken directions apps are available for free. If you want to spend a bit, one of the best Sat Nav apps (and there are many) is about £20. Quote: Just one more thing that really want to mention and thats facetime, it good that Apple has made it available but they also chucked it a lot of restrictions with it too. First of all its wifi only and second its only iphone to iphone. The API's are available to apps and one of the free instant messaging apps had already managed to use them for Skype calls. Skype stopped them though as it looks like they are going to bring out their own app using FaceTime.

21-07-2010, 06:50	#89
pocatello Inactive Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 8,622	Quote: Originally Posted by lalaland Bingo nothing. The thread's about Jobs and his tantrum and the poor handling of the whole situation with the design fault on the iPhone 4. However some people feel it's time to defend Apple, some even disputing facts, and it's off from there. You are entitled to have an opinion on Jobs ranting like a child whether you own or don't own an iPhone Sadly it appears you can't discuss anything on the iPhone without fanboys being attracted to defend it Once again, most people aren't hanging on jobs every word and emotion. They use their phone, and now have a free bumper. Theres no emotional issue of following steve jobs around like some kind of obsessed fan....as i said, its telling those who are exhibiting nerd rage on this issue arent or would never have been a customer anyways.

21-07-2010, 10:20	#90
Gormond Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 15,714	Quote: Originally Posted by psionic Quite a few inaccuracies in your post, need to be cleared up... Changing your ringtone is not a problem. You can buy them too. But to make your own, you can do it from within iTunes manually, but it's fiddly - a lot easier to use an external utility, or alternatively there are apps that give you a wide selection of free ringtones. The main problem is you cannot make your own message tones.Only if you turn on location services. BTW the cell towers are tracking you too, regardlessNot true, besides there are several types of notifications, Broadcast Notifications, Push Notifications and Local Notifications.Not true, the App Store App on the device itself periodically checks for updates and displays a badge (prominently on your home screen) showing how many need updating. They can all be updated at once from there. The individual Apps do not update themselvesIt doesn't directly have OS support for social networking no. It's left up to the apps themselves and loads of apps integrate with Facebook and Twitter etc. to share informationIt's well publicised that it's a closed system and managed by iTunes. You can of course drag and drop from within iTunes as much as you like. Even to and from your FS but iTunes remains the intermediary communcation between your computer and your phone. However out of iTunes all you can drag and drop are the camera stuff (ie photos and video clips).Streetview, traffic view etc. are built in. If you want turn by turn spoken directions apps are available for free. If you want to spend a bit, one of the best Sat Nav apps (and there are many) is about £20.The API's are available to apps and one of the free instant messaging apps had already managed to use them for Skype calls. Skype stopped them though as it looks like they are going to bring out their own app using FaceTime. You know I read that post and noticed all that nonsense too but couldn't be bothered posting lol. You wonder if people like that have actually used an iPhone...

21-07-2010, 10:27	#91
psionic Forum Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Crystal Palace TX Posts: 19,702	Quote: Originally Posted by Gormond You know I read that post and noticed all that nonsense too but couldn't be bothered posting lol. You wonder if people like that have actually used an iPhone... I was bored...

24-07-2010, 02:29	#92
neo_wales Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: South Wales/Gran Canaria Posts: 8,298	Quote: Originally Posted by Vallhund Something worse than SAL are the even sadder Apple Haters (SAH). Oh dear, you mean the imaginary problems. I will give you if you hold the phone in the wrong way it you could have a problem. Then again if you put petrol in your diesel engined car it might not like it very much. *"I will give you if you hold the phone in the wrong way it you could have a problem"* Yes, its a FLAW IN AN APPLE PRODUCT lol Back to the far more interesting Smart Car, I like the look of them, my daughter had one and they always remind me of my little Renault 4 back around 1975

24-07-2010, 03:53	#93
fluffsta007 Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 414	Jsut a quickie.. My mate got his new Iphone 4 today and for some reason its been activated today by his carrier but he has no way of connecting to the internet or itunes through the phone. No G reception whatsover. I must admit though I own a Iphone 3GS 32gb and the camera is ok but its much better of the new Iphone.

24-07-2010, 08:52	#94
lalaland Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 11,539	Quote: Originally Posted by pocatello Once again, most people aren't hanging on jobs every word and emotion. They use their phone, and now have a free bumper. Theres no emotional issue of following steve jobs around like some kind of obsessed fan....as i said, its telling those who are exhibiting nerd rage on this issue arent or would never have been a customer anyways. Pocatello, be careful with the use of the phrase 'nerd rage'. I called someone a fanboy and when they realised they were losing the debate they used this against me hitting the report button and got me suspended for two days. If Fanboy is offensive then Nerd Rage certainly is too, however I won't run with tears in my eyes to the report button I'll approach you like an adult and point this out so you realise As for the suggestion behind your phrase, I suspect you are suggesting that people are somehow against the iPhone and this is a malicious act towards it. I can obviously only speak in my case, but nothing is further from the point. I actually considered buying one a few months back before I saw the HTC Desire and realised that was a much better option for me. The iPhone just appears to be a hot topic to discuss at present due to the poor reaction and handling of the recently discovered design fault by Apple and the amusing tantrum like behaviour that Jobs has shown in the media. There's certainly no malice towards a product. Someone mentioned Toyotas on an iPhone thread. I wouldn't buy one of those either due to the recent fault press. However I wouldn't go on a mission to stop others buying them, that's their choice, it's just that I prefer products that I don't consider myself to be faulty.

24-07-2010, 09:50	#95
kosmos5457 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Anglesey Posts: 1,262	Quote: Originally Posted by moox I find it quite interesting that he has to wade into all of these threads that he dislikes so much, complains about non-owners "whining" about the way Apple has handled it (and you don't really need to own an iPhone to experience that), then will eventually claim that he is leaving the thread, only to come back once someone mentions something vaguely anti-Apple. At first it may have been handled poorly if Jobs initial email that was sent to a customer stating "Just avoid holding it in that way" was true. I happen to think that the matter has been dealt with rather well and in the correct way. After all the media had forced the issue and pushed Apple for explanations and this was the clear way forward for them to host the conference. I can also understand why Jobs might not have allowed certain ones from the press into the conference as there has been so many negative articles already published about what is old news now anyway. I don't think it's been handled poorly at all. This thread is about one saying the iPhone is not worth the money, rather than about poor handling of the matter. Jobs has said, they are willing to refund those who have bought cases for the iPhone 4, which is fair enough, they are allowing customers who purchase an iPhone 4 before the end of September the option of one from a range of cases or returning the phone for a full refund. There is nothing unfair about that offer.

24-07-2010, 11:11	#96
moox Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 14,645	Quote: Originally Posted by kosmos5457 I don't think it's been handled poorly at all. This thread is about one saying the iPhone is not worth the money, rather than about poor handling of the matter. I was commenting on a certain person's attitude. But, handling it properly does not mean "deny the problem. try and blame the entire industry when it's just your product that has this specific fault, create propaganda "proving" the same, still deny the problem, release a new software fix that is nothing more than cosmetic, then give out free cases just before the return period is up. Properly handling it would be admitting that they got it wrong (never going to happen, as it's Apple and Jobs extolled the virtues of the "revolutionary" antenna), announcing there was a proper fix in the works, and allowing people to exchange or repair when it happens. Perhaps then a free bumper or case would not be so bad.

24-07-2010, 11:28	#97
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	It is all a perception problem. If people perceive the iPhone to be worth an extra £500 then they are welcome to it. My guess it that, released September, the 'coated' white iPhone will not have this problem with the current model being discontinued in its current guise. It will not be renamed.

24-07-2010, 12:24	#98
psionic Forum Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Crystal Palace TX Posts: 19,702	An Extra £500 compared to what - not having or using any phone? It's £499 SIM-free and unlocked which means you could use any cheapo SIM only deal with data bundle from any Network.

DS Forums

I phone 4 not worth the money.

24-07-2010, 12:50	#99
-GONZO- Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 8,954	I certainly cannot justify paying the price for the iP4. I couldn't even justify the price for the 3GS either which I do have. If it wasn't for the fact that Three offered it to me for £30 then I would of never even considered an iPhone at all. Spending upto £600 on a mobile phone is just crazy.

24-07-2010, 12:54	#100
Gormond Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 15,714	Quote: Originally Posted by -GONZO- I certainly cannot justify paying the price for the iP4. I couldn't even justify the price for the 3GS either which I do have. If it wasn't for the fact that Three offered it to me for £30 then I would of never even considered an iPhone at all. Spending upto £600 on a mobile phone is just crazy. They aren't really mobile phones anymore though, They are pocket computers. In fact I probably only use mine as a phone about 10% of my usage time on the device. But hey I spent £1400 on a computer so have no problem spending £600 on a pocket computer. But hey some people spend 20k on a car which I think is crazy lol, I guess it just depends on what floats your boat.