Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“Personally, while not wishing to knock the man of steel, I'd say that the lack of super powers is precisely what makes Batman more heroic than Superman. Far from being just a rich bloke with some toys, he is a man who has trained himself to be the ultimate human, physically and mentally, through years of sheer dedication to his cause, and who uses the skills he's obtained to routinely put his life on the line for others. Superman, by contrast, has never had to work that hard and is virtually invulnerable. Who is more of a believable role model?
An aside: in Grant Morrison's Justice League series, there is possibly my favourite ever scene focusing on Batman, and Batman doesn't even appear in it. The League have been defeated by invading aliens, all except Batman, who escaped. In this scene, the alien commander is in his control room receiving reports from his subordinates-reports indicating that the shape changing, heavily armed and super powered aliens are being picked off one by one, by Batman. The commander screams that this can't be happening because 'he's just one man'-and a manacled, bruised and battered Superman, hanging from the wall behind him, laughs and through a malicious smile retorts ' just one man. The most dangerous man on Earth'.That, to me, sums up Batman perfectly. He does the impossible through sheer determination.
As for your last point: yes, the Doctor allows others to sacrifice themselves, but that isn't unheroic, that's just having respect for their personal choices. The Doctor still routinely offers to sacrifice himself for the greater good, and that is much more important when considering his status, I think. Yes, he's a hero Of course he is.”
“Personally, while not wishing to knock the man of steel, I'd say that the lack of super powers is precisely what makes Batman more heroic than Superman. Far from being just a rich bloke with some toys, he is a man who has trained himself to be the ultimate human, physically and mentally, through years of sheer dedication to his cause, and who uses the skills he's obtained to routinely put his life on the line for others. Superman, by contrast, has never had to work that hard and is virtually invulnerable. Who is more of a believable role model?
An aside: in Grant Morrison's Justice League series, there is possibly my favourite ever scene focusing on Batman, and Batman doesn't even appear in it. The League have been defeated by invading aliens, all except Batman, who escaped. In this scene, the alien commander is in his control room receiving reports from his subordinates-reports indicating that the shape changing, heavily armed and super powered aliens are being picked off one by one, by Batman. The commander screams that this can't be happening because 'he's just one man'-and a manacled, bruised and battered Superman, hanging from the wall behind him, laughs and through a malicious smile retorts ' just one man. The most dangerous man on Earth'.That, to me, sums up Batman perfectly. He does the impossible through sheer determination.
As for your last point: yes, the Doctor allows others to sacrifice themselves, but that isn't unheroic, that's just having respect for their personal choices. The Doctor still routinely offers to sacrifice himself for the greater good, and that is much more important when considering his status, I think. Yes, he's a hero Of course he is.”
Ok, Batman is a hero, but what is it that makes him "super" then?
The Doctor is a tough one to call, there are many elements according to which incarnation you look at, that are rather unheroic. IIRC, Mr Hartnell certainly didn't portray him as a hero, more of a wanderer.
Jon Pertwee was the closest to a conventional hero but I've never felt that the Doctor intentionally seeks out wrongs to right, it just sort of happens to him.
