[davidcookox]

I’m a BT Vision and broadband customer, so Sky Sports 1 £6.99/month and Sky Sports 1 &2 for £11.99 looks a good addition as I’d like to see more Premiership football, but up to now was reluctant to pay Sky £28/month.

However, what Premier League content is guaranteed on these channels?

What is to stop Sky moving their Premier League football to Sky Sports 3 and Sky Sports 4 leaving BT Vision customer’s with no premier league football? Is anywhere it defined what is on these channels?

Regards,

Dave

[johnson293]

Apparently OFCOM said that if Sky did this (moved Premiership footy onto SS3 & 4), then they (OFCOM) would force Sky to wholesale SS3 & 4 to BT and Virgin also... I think.

However, if that did happen, is there spare capacity on Freeview for BT to accomodate another two Sky Sports channels?

[steven3001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidcookox

I’m a BT Vision and broadband customer, so Sky Sports 1 £6.99/month and Sky Sports 1 &2 for £11.99 looks a good addition as I’d like to see more Premiership football, but up to now was reluctant to pay Sky £28/month.

However, what Premier League content is guaranteed on these channels?

What is to stop Sky moving their Premier League football to Sky Sports 3 and Sky Sports 4 leaving BT Vision customer’s with no premier league football? Is anywhere it defined what is on these channels?

Regards,

Dave

I believe both Ofcom and BT are going to monitor the situation in case that happens

[Sirius]

It's unlikely that Sky will move Premiership football over simply for this reason.

However there's already a lot of sport on SS3/4 - Champions League, SPL, Spanish Football anyway. With more Premiership games the Championship will probably find a home on one of 3/4.

With neither TUTV or BTV significantly undercutting Sky I see this as a non-issue personally.

[victorslot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius

With neither TUTV or BTV significantly undercutting Sky I see this as a non-issue personally.

It is a big issue if they start to put it over all four channels as it would mean BT et al having to make room for all four to provide total coverage. I am personally not a football fan so I am not sure how Sky currently cover the various leagues. My experience with Premiership Rugby was that it started on SS1 or 2 (can't remember which now) but more recently the game have also been shown on all four channels instead. So it does mean that you may not see a premier game (of whatever sport) every week if you only have SS1 and 2.

[Sirius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by victorslot

It is a big issue if they start to put it over all four channels as it would mean BT et al having to make room for all four to provide total coverage. I am personally not a football fan so I am not sure how Sky currently cover the various leagues. My experience with Premiership Rugby was that it started on SS1 or 2 (can't remember which now) but more recently the game have also been shown on all four channels instead. So it does mean that you may not see a premier game (of whatever sport) every week if you only have SS1 and 2.

By non-issue I was meaning I don't see Sky shifting the Premier League as was the OPs concern. Sky already have significant content on SS3/4 and I don't see BTV or TUTV threatening Sky at their proposed prices.

Viewers on DTT will miss significant amounts of content as it stands. I don't see Sky having to shift content as a result.

[agm2002]

They won't move the Premier league coverage to SS3 or 4. I can see them moving the big Spanish and games to SS3 and 4 like the Barca - Madrid game etc.

[dave1403]

I believe they're moving some Championship Football over to SS3 if thats you bag. Not covered by the very vague agreement that BT/Ofcom/Sky Sports have over what sports Sky are allowed to show on which of their own channels.

But I also can't see Premier league football shunted down to SS3 or 4. BT Vision fans like myself will miss out on enough this season, no Sat Night Extended highlights (unless it's Skys Match choice) limited Champions League football, less Championship football, and (god forbid ) you like other non football sports, youre gonna miss loads.

[swills]

As Sky own the channels, so I assume they can put what sport they want on whatever channel they want?
Most I would have thought (on Sky) have both sports packs, so if it's on 1 or 4 makes no odds

SS on BTV only seems cheaper to me if you already have BT,BTBB & BTV

[indiekid76]

Are BT definitely not showing extended highlights anymore?

Yeah, Champions League on Tuesday nights are going to be the biggest problem as Arsenal are always shunted onto Sky Sports 3 (or is it 4) when they play the same day as United or Liverpool (although of course they're not in it).

[betsvigi9]

Quote:

Originally Posted by indiekid76

Are BT definitely not showing extended highlights anymore?

Yeah, Champions League on Tuesday nights are going to be the biggest problem as Arsenal are always shunted onto Sky Sports 3 (or is it 4) when they play the same day as United or Liverpool (although of course they're not in it).

BT will no longer be showing the near live games, or the extended highlights of games not shown live on Sky, because they no longer have the rights for them. Makes the sports pack very thin in my opinion. I guess that they are hoping that everyone who used to watch them, will pay for SS1 and SS2.

I don't think it will be long before people start complaining about not having access to SS3 and SS4. Even if Sky don't mess about with Premier league games, they won't be able to resist moving things about to emphasise to viewers who subscribe to Sky via BT Vision that they don't have access to everything. I am still fed up about live league 1 games being shown on SS3.

[stuntmaster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by betsvigi9

BT will no longer be showing the near live games, or the extended highlights of games not shown live on Sky, because they no longer have the rights for them. Makes the sports pack very thin in my opinion. I guess that they are hoping that everyone who used to watch them, will pay for SS1 and SS2.

I don't think it will be long before people start complaining about not having access to SS3 and SS4. Even if Sky don't mess about with Premier league games, they won't be able to resist moving things about to emphasise to viewers who subscribe to Sky via BT Vision that they don't have access to everything. I am still fed up about live league 1 games being shown on SS3.

Where does it say that? ive not come across it can you provide a link?

[derek500]

I had a promo email from BT which stated:-

Quote:

Enjoy Sky Sports 1 on our digital TV service, BT Vision, for just £6.99 a month. And upgrade any time you like by adding Sky Sports 2 for just £5 a month to get the same great sports coverage as you'd get on satellite or cable.

There is no way they can say that unless they carry SS3 and SS4.

I would suggest any prospective customer to get Digiguide, which has listings for a couple of months, just to see what you're going to get.

If you're a golf fan don't bother. SS3 over the weekends is basically 'The Golf Channel".

[TelevisionUser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidcookox

I’m a BT Vision and broadband customer, so Sky Sports 1 £6.99/month and Sky Sports 1 &2 for £11.99 looks a good addition as I’d like to see more Premiership football, but up to now was reluctant to pay Sky £28/month.

However, what Premier League content is guaranteed on these channels?

What is to stop Sky moving their Premier League football to Sky Sports 3 and Sky Sports 4 leaving BT Vision customer’s with no premier league football? Is anywhere it defined what is on these channels?

Regards,

Dave

As has been mentioned above, Sky have been moving some of their better content to Sky Sports 3 & 4 and I would expect Sky to test that to the limit but just fall short of provoking Ofcom into some action.

They might just try to get away with the odd Premiership match, e.g. Wigan vs. Wolves on Sky Sports 3 & 4 due to some "technical reasons" but we'll see.

As it is, the BT Vision and Top Up TV sports offerings are still relatively poor value for money when compared with the five Sky sports channels that are available from Virgin Media or direct from Sky for a broadly similar amount.

[steven3001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TelevisionUser

As has been mentioned above, Sky have been moving some of their better content to Sky Sports 3 & 4 and I would expect Sky to test that to the limit but just fall short of provoking Ofcom into some action.

They might just try to get away with the odd Premiership match, e.g. Wigan vs. Wolves on Sky Sports 3 & 4 due to some "technical reasons" but we'll see.

As it is, the BT Vision and Top Up TV sports offerings are still relatively poor value for money when compared with the five Sky sports channels that are available from Virgin Media or direct from Sky for a broadly similar amount.

So for £11.99 with BT you get SS1, SS2, ESPN and on demand sport

thats hardly poor really,

[andyf94]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TelevisionUser

As it is, the BT Vision and Top Up TV sports offerings are still relatively poor value for money when compared with the five Sky sports channels that are available from Virgin Media or direct from Sky for a broadly similar amount.

There's another way of looking at this of course. What i want to watch is live premier league football, all of which is on Sky sports 1&2. Therefore, based on my viewing preferences, the additional 3 sports channels don't add 'value', they just add cost.

It's what Sky are good at, wrapping up what you want with a lot of stuff you don't want and claiming 'you get so much more' (oh, and charging you a bit more for it).

I'm happy with SS1&2, for me it's good value

[TelevisionUser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by steven3001

So for £11.99 with BT you get SS1, SS2, ESPN and on demand sport

thats hardly poor really,

Ahem, and what about all the other necessary costs which are obligatory under the BT Vision system that you are forced to buy in order to get the so-called "cheap" Sky sports channels?

£17.99 a month for triple BT Vision package, BT line rental at £12.79 a month, paying for Vision+ box (£199) and home hub (£4.99) plus getting locked into a full 2 year contract. And BT reserve the right to raise prices (which they will invariably do!).

For just 2 out of Sky's 5 sports channels that isn't good value for money; it's a rip off and Virgin or Sky most certainly do offer better overall value for money.

I also noticed today that mendacious, deceitful BT Vision have had to change their TV ads presumably because they were misleading the public.

[spaceman05]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TelevisionUser

Ahem, and what about all the other necessary costs which are obligatory under the BT Vision system that you are forced to buy in order to get the so-called "cheap" Sky sports channels?

£17.99 a month for triple BT Vision package, BT line rental at £12.79 a month, paying for Vision+ box (£199) and home hub (£4.99) plus getting locked into a full 2 year contract. And BT reserve the right to raise prices (which they will invariably do!).

For just 2 out of Sky's 5 sports channels that isn't good value for money; it's a rip off and Virgin or Sky most certainly do offer better overall value for money.

I also noticed today that mendacious, deceitful BT Vision have had to change their TV ads presumably because they were misleading the public.

but if you already have bt vision, or jusrt bt broadband it is a no brainer, cheaper than going down the sky route

[littleboo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TelevisionUser

Ahem, and what about all the other necessary costs which are obligatory under the BT Vision system that you are forced to buy in order to get the so-called "cheap" Sky sports channels?

£17.99 a month for triple BT Vision package, BT line rental at £12.79 a month, paying for Vision+ box (£199) and home hub (£4.99) plus getting locked into a full 2 year contract. And BT reserve the right to raise prices (which they will invariably do!).

For just 2 out of Sky's 5 sports channels that isn't good value for money; it's a rip off and Virgin or Sky most certainly do offer better overall value for money.

I also noticed today that mendacious, deceitful BT Vision have had to change their TV ads presumably because they were misleading the public.

Where are you getting these numbers from ? The way I read the web site, a new customer could pay £17.99/month, plus line rental, with a one of payment of £60 for the Vision box, not £199. I think also the Sky channels are on a one month term.

Regardless of the aruments about who offers best value for money, the fact there is now more choice can only be a good thing for the consumer. I notice that Sky have stepped up their advertising for Sky sports, they wouldn't do that unless they thought there was some threat.

[TelevisionUser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by littleboo

Where are you getting these numbers from ? The way I read the web site, a new customer could pay £17.99/month, plus line rental, with a one of payment of £60 for the Vision box, not £199. I think also the Sky channels are on a one month term.

Regardless of the aruments about who offers best value for money, the fact there is now more choice can only be a good thing for the consumer. I notice that Sky have stepped up their advertising for Sky sports, they wouldn't do that unless they thought there was some threat.

From a BT Vision newspaper advert! The Vision box is cheaper than £199 but only if you guarantee that you'll be with them for a year or more - it's in the barely visible small print. Personally, I hope that the Advertising Standards Authority do BT Vision over their scam advertising.

Even if customers already have BT Vision, then BT Vision will almost certainly make them pay more over time and their right to do that will be enshrined in very small print in the customer's contract.

[agm2002]

The Emirates cup preseason friendly tournament was scheduled for SS1 but it is now on SS3. I personally think all football apart from the premiership will be moved, its a shame because I don't really think BT Vision is much competition for Sky.

[mlt11]

Sky only has 5 rights contracts which OFCOM would definitely consider to be absolutely prime content and for which Sky therefore dare not move any live coverage to SS3 or SS4. These are:

- Premier League
- Champions League (*)
- England cricket tests
- England rugby union internationals
- Ryder Cup

(*) = main CL game, all other games already on SS4 so maintain status quo.

The new contract for England's Euro 2012 away qualifiers would need to be added to the above, even though these are new rights so would not be being "moved".

Sky's August and Septermber schedules have been published and confirm none of the above have been moved (although there are no England rugby games or Ryder Cup in this period).

Next in line is the Football League which I think could be considered borderline. A few games could go to SS3 or SS4 but probably pushing it to move them all. August and September schedules show quite a lot of Football League games being moved to SS3 (particularly Friday night games) but most weekend games do remain on SS1 / SS2.

I would also consider the Carling Cup to be a grey area. But interestingly August and September schedules show this moving entirely to SS3 (including the 3rd round when all big clubs will have joined the competition). This is the bravest move by Sky so far - it's pushing it a bit but they obviously believe not quite enough to provoke OFCOM.

Other than all of the above I think Sky can pretty much do what they want. There is nothing else which could be deemed critical.

[swills]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TelevisionUser

From a BT Vision newspaper advert! The Vision box is cheaper than £199 but only if you guarantee that you'll be with them for a year or more - it's in the barely visible small print. Personally, I hope that the Advertising Standards Authority do BT Vision over their scam advertising.

Even if customers already have BT Vision, then BT Vision will almost certainly make them pay more over time and their right to do that will be enshrined in very small print in the customer's contract.

and a 2 year contract to BT and BTBB, no SSHD no SS News, no Red button, and if for any reason the BT link goes down your end or BT's end, then TV goes up the wall.
as the TV part of the box needs a connection to the BT server! see another thread about this on here.

[littleboo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TelevisionUser

From a BT Vision newspaper advert! The Vision box is cheaper than £199 but only if you guarantee that you'll be with them for a year or more - it's in the barely visible small print. Personally, I hope that the Advertising Standards Authority do BT Vision over their scam advertising.

Even if customers already have BT Vision, then BT Vision will almost certainly make them pay more over time and their right to do that will be enshrined in very small print in the customer's contract.

Lol, so it's not £199 then. You acuse BT of misleading, then quite happily do the same. Small print is small print, we all need to read it, it's not unique to BT, I think even Sky have it.

[swills]

Think the box is £60 still hefty for something that will not work even on freeview without a BT subscription