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Old 04-08-2010, 11:37
boywonder
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Hilarious...I'll tell some of the women i know who love Queen & Meat Loaf you said that. Shows how rubbbish your music testing philosphy is really. You can't generalise like that, despite what the Global bible says.
You have female friends? Wow. They will ALSO tell you that there are plenty of Meatloaf and Queen songs that are better than others. Even diehard fans will tell you some songs are crap.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:40
Bundyman
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You have female friends? Wow. They will ALSO tell you that there are plenty of Meatloaf and Queen songs that are better than others. Even diehard fans will tell you some songs are crap.
Of course....Every group/Artist makes some rubbish songs...even Wham!

That doesn't mean that you should discount the whole group or some of the songs that weren't the biggest hits.

As far as Meatloaf goes, I'd lie for you & i'd do anything for love are about as female friendly as you can get. To say Meatloaf are not female friendly is nonsense.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:42
Lee277
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I think 'A Kind Of Magic' and 'Crazy Little Thing Called Love' would sound fine on Heart!

They play 'I Want To Break Free'!
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:43
Joey Deacon
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I think 'A Kind Of Magic' and 'Crazy Little Thing Called Love' would sound fine on Heart!

They play 'I Want To Break Free'!
All 3 of those songs are played on Magic.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:44
boywonder
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Of course....Every group/Artist makes some rubbish songs...even Wham!

That doesn't mean that you should discount the whole group or some of the songs that weren't the biggest hits.

As far as Meatloaf goes, I'd lie for you & i'd do anything for love are about as female friendly as you can get. To say Meatloaf are not female friendly is nonsense.
I am NOT disputing the artists. I am disputing the SONGS. Nowhere have I said that these two artists are turn off's.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:50
Bundyman
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I am NOT disputing the artists. I am disputing the SONGS. Nowhere have I said that these two artists are turn off's.
Dead Ringer for love was a big hit song in 1981, reached #2,Queen-One Vision was a hit in 1985, reached #7

For stations like Mid West, both are fine are they try to appeal to both men & women

You can't just play the big big hit songs all the time, especialy on smaller stations. It just becomes totally boring & turns people off.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:52
nobjockey
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Dead Ringer for love was a big hit song in 1981, reached #2,Queen-One Vision was a hit in 1985, reached #7
Mr Blobby reached #1 in xmas 1993, Bob the builder reached #1 in 2000 with Can We Fix it... your point?
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:53
Phillip Swift
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There IS plenty of evidence that people are hacked off by the same songs over & over. Many factories & offices i know of are resigned to switching stations every few weeks or every week just to hear something different.

It is the #1 complaint amongst listeners.

I suggest you visit some factories/workplaces in your area & talk to the workers or start conversations in pubs with ordinary people, not your radio mates & you'll son discover how fed up people are with hearing the same songs over & over.

.
As I live more than 200 miles away from any Heart station apart from on sky there would be little point in visiting factories.

I'm sure i could find plenty of workplaces (and in fact I do know) plenty of people and workplaces who love Heart and some who've discovered it since the re brand and think its loads better than the station that was there before. This is not hard evidence.

You could argue that Rauel Moat was a great bloke who was loved by thousands.because argualbly there's plenty of evidence to support that.

Do you have any evidence in terms of station performance, station profitability etc which shows over time the success or faliure of a station or brand?

Like I said there's plenty of supporting evidence showing how successfull stations have been with a narrow but well managed playlist.

I agree that small statons shouldn't go down the male or female targeted route because there are not enough of either to support them. The same principles apply though, identify your target audience, find out what they want and more importantly what they don't want and don't like and then do lots of what they do like. Simples.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:01
boywonder
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Dead Ringer for love was a big hit song in 1981, reached #2,Queen-One Vision was a hit in 1985, reached #7
Chart positions are irrelevant. Summer of 69 and Brown Eyed Girl didn't even make it into the top 40 yet they CONSISTENTLY test well.

The Bluebells 'Young at Heart' charted TWICE.
Bryan Adam's 'Everything I Do' spent a massive 16 weeks at number one.
Bros were all over the charts '88-'91. When will I be famous, I Owe You Nothing and Drop the Boy were HUGE!

All are familar songs but guess what? They test like a dog. Never assume that because a song charted well people still want to hear them. They don't.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:04
Bundyman
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As I live more than 200 miles away from any Heart station apart from on sky there would be little point in visiting factories.

I'm sure i could find plenty of workplaces (and in fact I do know) plenty of people and workplaces who love Heart and some who've discovered it since the re brand and think its loads better than the station that was there before. This is not hard evidence.

You could argue that Rauel Moat was a great bloke who was loved by thousands.because argualbly there's plenty of evidence to support that.

Do you have any evidence in terms of station performance, station profitability etc which shows over time the success or faliure of a station or brand?

Like I said there's plenty of supporting evidence showing how successfull stations have been with a narrow but well managed playlist.
Look at how the figures fell for a lot of the heritage stations & smaller smations when they became part of groups and adopted the "group music"

The groups have been a disaster for a lot of stations, especially the smaller ones.

All the stations i have ever been involved with have fell on their ass after the arrival of short playlists, they did far better with wider playlists....but obviously i'm not going to name those stations
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:07
Joey Deacon
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Like I said there's plenty of supporting evidence showing how successfull stations have been with a narrow but well managed playlist.
Indeed.

In London, Capital rotate about 200 songs, Magic and Heart about 550, and Smooth between 1750 and 2000.

The first three are the most listened to commercial stations in London and massively out perform Smooth.

Surely some evidence right there, Bundyman?
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:09
boywonder
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All the stations i have ever been involved with have fell on their ass after the arrival of short playlists, they did far better with wider playlists....but obviously i'm not going to name those stations
Oh go on I could do with a good laugh
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:18
Phillip Swift
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Look at how the figures fell for a lot of the heritage stations & smaller smations when they became part of groups and adopted the "group music"

The groups have been a disaster for a lot of stations, especially the smaller ones.

All the stations i have ever been involved with have fell on their ass after the arrival of short playlists, they did far better with wider playlists....but obviously i'm not going to name those stations
Thats a different argument group music doesn't mean narrow playlist and doesn't mean its a well managed playlist. I can think of one group who owned A LOT of very small stations, tried to create a big brand and fell flat on their arse because they didn't do it properly. But their playlist was badly managed and they implemented the brand very badly. That doesn't mean all small playlists are bad any more than all wide playlists are good.

I can think of a station on the southy coast who had a very wode playlist and failed badly so a new owner came in and and made a much shorter playlist and their audience went up.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:21
bluesdiamond
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I think 'A Kind Of Magic' and 'Crazy Little Thing Called Love' would sound fine on Heart!

They play 'I Want To Break Free'!
Which Heart is playing 'A Kind of Magic' or 'Crazy Little Thing Called Love'?
London?
Sure wish they would roll it onto Home Counties!!!
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:27
nobjockey
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Thats a different argument group music doesn't mean narrow playlist and doesn't mean its a well managed playlist. I can think of one group who owned A LOT of very small stations, tried to create a big brand and fell flat on their arse because they didn't do it properly. But their playlist was badly managed and they implemented the brand very badly. That doesn't mean all small playlists are bad any more than all wide playlists are good.

I can think of a station on the southy coast who had a very wode playlist and failed badly so a new owner came in and and made a much shorter playlist and their audience went up.
My experiences mirror this, despite Bundyman's many claims over the years that he's been involved with many stations whose RAJARs jumped hugely the moment they put 10 times more tracks on the playlist (yet doesn't seem to be able to name these stations), I've never seen it happen that way around.

It's a well known share-boosting tactic, tighten the playlist/rotation = more listeners in every market I've worked in.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:31
boywonder
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Which Heart is playing 'A Kind of Magic' or 'Crazy Little Thing Called Love'?
London?
None.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:39
Joey Deacon
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I can think of one group who owned A LOT of very small stations, tried to create a big brand and fell flat on their arse because they didn't do it properly. But their playlist was badly managed and they implemented the brand very badly.
Ahhh yes. Fun Music Life anyone?
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:41
Joey Deacon
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It's a well known share-boosting tactic, tighten the playlist/rotation = more listeners in every market I've worked in.
Same here.

Small playlist = big sounding station.

Tighten the playlist and watch the RAJAR figures soar.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:51
bluesdiamond
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So to back up how good Heart is we out the figures that show Heart is doing better than Smooth in London.
Yet in other cities it does better.
I suspect a combination
a) less choice
b) demographics. London has a younger population

So is the desire for tighter play list from younger people? It seems that younger people don't listen to the radio as much as their forebears. So many other distractions, tv. mp3, computer games.

So for many is it the case of. get in car. switch on radio, half hour later out of car. Great for them, in half an hour they hear familiar music. Hear it couple of times a week,

Trouble is music we are told is good in the background at work. In to many work places, it seems from reading previous posts, people are fed up hearing the same music all day long. But are they tuning to other stations or putting on cd's?
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Old 04-08-2010, 13:15
simon243
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There is zero evidence that listeners tune out of radio stations when "unfamilier" songs are played (Meat loaf & Queen are hardly unfamiler in any case), but there is plenty of evidence that people tune out because they keep hearing the same tired boring songs.

Not EVERY song has to be a "killer", that's just a crap group theory. People like more than just a few hundred songs over & over and this is where smaller stations can win out.

Radio is not like Burgers. Listeners don't want the same thing day in & day out.
Er, yes there IS evidence that listeners tune out when unfamiliar songs are played.

Have a look at this report from the US ratings people Arbitron. There ain't a lot they don't know about audience research.

They interviewed 1000 women listeners and found the majority "strongly agreed" that they would tune out if they heard a song they didn't like.

And 90% “strongly agreed” that they listen for “music I like”.

That's why tight, repetitive playlists work on AC stations aimed at women like Heart.

You may disagree - but remember men consume radio very differently. Hence why the likes of Absolute, Jack and Original have all bombed in the ratings.

http://www.arbitron.com/downloads/www_ac.pdf
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Old 04-08-2010, 13:45
wckartist
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Indeed.

In London, Capital rotate about 200 songs, Magic and Heart about 550, and Smooth between 1750 and 2000.
bringing capital into your argument is flawed, and you know it, as they might have a small playlist, but the majority are new / chart / current, and will change a lot more frequently than the other stations.........

i've no doubt the "heart" boys would make great politicians, more "spin" than graeme swann!
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Old 04-08-2010, 15:47
Mapperley Ridge
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bringing capital into your argument is flawed, and you know it, as they might have a small playlist, but the majority are new / chart / current, and will change a lot more frequently than the other stations.........

i've no doubt the "heart" boys would make great politicians, more "spin" than graeme swann!
Well I guess it all depends how much of a conspiracy theorist you are.

The trouble is - whatever the Heart boys say, some people will always poo poo real facts in favour of their own prejudices. That's what tends to hack me off with threads like this.
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Old 04-08-2010, 17:16
essentialtv
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I have the car audio set up, so no more moaning on my side.

The I-pod is playing more music variety

The car system interrupts when there's a travel update to get me home

& if I want the news at the top of the hour then I press the radio button.

No adverts, No Jingles, No D**kheads telling me this is Heart every few seconds

So until there is more choice on the FM dial or DAB reception becomes better in the car this is how it will stay

Global, Ofcom killed the Radio Star
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Old 04-08-2010, 17:17
DevonAirRadio
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Dead Ringer for love was a big hit song in 1981, reached #2,Queen-One Vision was a hit in 1985, reached #7

For stations like Mid West, both are fine are they try to appeal to both men & women

You can't just play the big big hit songs all the time, especialy on smaller stations. It just becomes totally boring & turns people off.
MusicFunLife, anyone?
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Old 04-08-2010, 17:21
krob2
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I have the car audio set up, so no more moaning on my side.

The I-pod is playing more music variety

The car system interrupts when there's a travel update to get me home

& if I want the news at the top of the hour then I press the radio button.

No adverts, No Jingles, No D**kheads telling me this is Heart every few seconds

So until there is more choice on the FM dial or DAB reception becomes better in the car this is how it will stay

Global, Ofcom killed the Radio Star
Spot on essential - this is what I have set up too - 10,500 songs on the Ipod and playlists constantly updated. Only radio in the car now seems to be R2 in the morning which allows all the local BBC stations to interrupt with the vital traffic news.
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