[crazzyaz7]

Originally Posted by rossyrahrah

Oh dear *prepares to make self unpopular*

He's my least favourite Doctor.

It may well be because I was just a kid when he took over. Tom Baker was my first Doctor but I was still young enough to accept the change when Peter Davison took over. Also, he was very likeable and charming whilst still having enough "authority" for him to be believable in the role for me.

Colin Baker was a hell of a shock to the system after two actors that I had adored. He was brusque, unsympathetic, didn't seem to have a good relationship with his companions and just seemed, well, hammy. Hammier than a ham sarnie with extra ham. I never took to him, never *believed* in him and was very happy when he changed into the wonderful Sylvester McCoy, who had a rough deal but IMO was a great Doctor.

I've never listened to any of his audio adventures, so I may be unfairly maligning him, but I'm never going to get over that childhood prejudice. It felt at the time that he'd ruined my favourite programme.

Sorry

On forums, its really sometimes hard to ask some questions without it sounding as if your being rude or something...so I am going to say that this is just a genuine question that i am just asking out of interest...so hope you don't mind...but have you watched any Colin's stories since, or if you have does that childhood feelings still come to the fore, or do you feel its still not an era for you?

I would also say that if you can do check out some of his audios...as his Doctor his quiet calmer in them

[rossyrahrah]

Originally Posted by crazzyaz7

On forums, its really sometimes hard to ask some questions without it sounding as if your being rude or something...so I am going to say that this is just a genuine question that i am just asking out of interest...so hope you don't mind...but have you watched any Colin's stories since, or if you have does that childhood feelings still come to the fore, or do you feel its still not an era for you?

I would also say that if you can do check out some of his audios...as his Doctor his quiet calmer in them

It doesn't sound rude at all I'm working my way through a lot of Classic Who at the moment after finding a fabulous website where you can watch them for free (checks over shoulder for the naughty police).
I started with an Unearthly Child and I've just finished Invasion of Time, which was awesome. It's taking me a while because unreasonable things like work and partners keep getting in the way I will work my way towards the CB era and try to keep an open mind. I'm quite willing to try and put aside childhood prejudices and I know that I have them.
Saying that I saw The Two Doctors recently and really did feel the same. I just didn't like him.
I might try the audios if his portrayal is calmer and see how I go with them.

[crazzyaz7]

Originally Posted by rossyrahrah

It doesn't sound rude at all I'm working my way through a lot of Classic Who at the moment after finding a fabulous website where you can watch them for free (checks over shoulder for the naughty police).
I started with an Unearthly Child and I've just finished Invasion of Time, which was awesome. It's taking me a while because unreasonable things like work and partners keep getting in the way I will work my way towards the CB era and try to keep an open mind. I'm quite willing to try and put aside childhood prejudices and I know that I have them.
Saying that I saw The Two Doctors recently and really did feel the same. I just didn't like him.
I might try the audios if his portrayal is calmer and see how I go with them.

Don't worry won't say a word about that website!!!

I do hope that when you do get round to Colin's stories you enjoy them a bit more this time...and if not well...that is just the way it is for you...

For me, when I began my Classic Who quest after watching School Reunion, I had read a lot about Colin, and had seen that fandom didn't really look back at him that well....but I was pleasently suprised how much I enjoyed his Doctor and the stories....his costume is something at times distracting....but overall its not too bad. My favourite story is Vengeance on Varos, especailly the scene where he sits down and gives up....its just so Doctorish thing to do, yet not like any other Doctor I can imagine doing...so that made me really fall in love with him...and yes to go on about the audios...he has some really good ones like the Jubilee, and the One Doctor...

[daveyboy7472]

Originally Posted by rossyrahrah

It doesn't sound rude at all I'm working my way through a lot of Classic Who at the moment after finding a fabulous website where you can watch them for free (checks over shoulder for the naughty police).
I started with an Unearthly Child and I've just finished Invasion of Time, which was awesome. It's taking me a while because unreasonable things like work and partners keep getting in the way I will work my way towards the CB era and try to keep an open mind. I'm quite willing to try and put aside childhood prejudices and I know that I have them.
Saying that I saw The Two Doctors recently and really did feel the same. I just didn't like him.
I might try the audios if his portrayal is calmer and see how I go with them.

I think once you watch Season 23 you'll see a huge difference from his initial portrayal in The Twin Dilemma. he still gets a bit grumpy at times but he goes into humour overload which especially during the first story, I loved!!!!

Originally Posted by crazzyaz7

Don't worry won't say a word about that website!!!

I do hope that when you do get round to Colin's stories you enjoy them a bit more this time...and if not well...that is just the way it is for you...

For me, when I began my Classic Who quest after watching School Reunion, I had read a lot about Colin, and had seen that fandom didn't really look back at him that well....but I was pleasently suprised how much I enjoyed his Doctor and the stories....his costume is something at times distracting....but overall its not too bad. My favourite story is Vengeance on Varos, especailly the scene where he sits down and gives up....its just so Doctorish thing to do, yet not like any other Doctor I can imagine doing...so that made me really fall in love with him...and yes to go on about the audios...he has some really good ones like the Jubilee, and the One Doctor...

I loved VOV as well. Aside from that costume Peri wore, I loved the one-liners. 'Do you get all the priest parts?' and after the acid bath. 'You'll forgive me if I don't join you.' Love it!

[rossyrahrah]

Originally Posted by crazzyaz7

I do hope that when you do get round to Colin's stories you enjoy them a bit more this time...and if not well...that is just the way it is for you...
.and yes to go on about the audios...he has some really good ones like the Jubilee, and the One Doctor...

I'll come back and let you know

Although unless I win the lottery and get to spend my time doing more civilsed things than working (bah) it might take me a while.

[crazzyaz7]

Originally Posted by daveyboy7472

I think once you watch Season 23 you'll see a huge difference from his initial portrayal in The Twin Dilemma. he still gets a bit grumpy at times but he goes into humour overload which especially during the first story, I loved!!!!

I loved VOV as well. Aside from that costume Peri wore, I loved the one-liners. 'Do you get all the priest parts?' and after the acid bath. 'You'll forgive me if I don't join you.' Love it!

yes that bit is deliciously dark.....

Originally Posted by rossyrahrah

I'll come back and let you know

Although unless I win the lottery and get to spend my time doing more civilsed things than working (bah) it might take me a while.

Oh don't worry....I am happy to wait!!!!

[DavetheScot]

Originally Posted by tingramretro

*cough* loads of audiuos *cough*

To me Doctor Who is a TV programme and nothing more. I am aware that audios exist, but for me they aren't part of the show and I have absolutely no interest in them. That being the case, then you will see that from my point of view Paul McGann's tenure as the Doctor is only the TV movie, and I hold to my view that it's not enough to judge him on.

Originally Posted by tingramretro

No. Colin was a great Doctor. Colin is a great Doctor. The worst Doctor ever is the manic, maddening Tennant-no contest.

Well, we must disagree on this one, as to me David Tennant was a great Doctor (the best one since Tom, IMO) and Colin wasn't.

[DavetheScot]

Originally Posted by Kapellmeister

He had some horrific stories to deal with. I personally think McCoy is my least favourite Dr. Just awful and annoying.

I liked McCoy's Doctor. Not the best Doctor, but a very enjoyable one.

[DavetheScot]

Originally Posted by lach doch mal

Kind of. To be truthful, I haven't watched many Peter Davison episodes so I wasn't subjected to Tegan too much.

Was she that bad?

Tegan is one of the best classic era companions. She's not only not bad, she's great.

[lach doch mal]

Originally Posted by nebogipfel

.... I was just going from an interview I saw with Colin where he was asked about his time by a TV interviewer who didn't seem to know much about it and he kicked off with a defence of what he wanted to do with the character journey - start by being unlikeable and make the audience work at seeing his finer attributes. It came across as though he knew where the questions would be going so got the rebuttal in first.

(I like the way this thread is swinging back to people with fonder memories of Six and positive points coming in. I like this forum.)

Ah gotcha. I have often thought how he felt after Sylvester McCoy took over and how devestating it must be for him to read really nasty stuff about him and his portrayal of the doctor. Maybe we should blame the eighties. I wonder if any doctor would have survived the politics and the new way of living.

I also like this forum (most of the time).

Originally Posted by rossyrahrah

Oh dear *prepares to make self unpopular*

He's my least favourite Doctor.

It may well be because I was just a kid when he took over. Tom Baker was my first Doctor but I was still young enough to accept the change when Peter Davison took over. Also, he was very likeable and charming whilst still having enough "authority" for him to be believable in the role for me.

Colin Baker was a hell of a shock to the system after two actors that I had adored. He was brusque, unsympathetic, didn't seem to have a good relationship with his companions and just seemed, well, hammy. Hammier than a ham sarnie with extra ham. I never took to him, never *believed* in him and was very happy when he changed into the wonderful Sylvester McCoy, who had a rough deal but IMO was a great Doctor.

I've never listened to any of his audio adventures, so I may be unfairly maligning him, but I'm never going to get over that childhood prejudice. It felt at the time that he'd ruined my favourite programme.

Sorry

You don't have to apologise for your opinion. I was interested in why people didn't like him, and getting a nice long post stating all the reasons without categorically stating "He is cr*p" is great.

I would suggest watching him again, particularly the later series, he had become really caring and he was funny. Additonally, there was some wonderful philosophical aspects in his series as well.

By the way, Sylvester was my doctor, so I love him as well.

[tingramretro]

Originally Posted by DavetheScot

To me Doctor Who is a TV programme and nothing more. I am aware that audios exist, but for me they aren't part of the show and I have absolutely no interest in them. That being the case, then you will see that from my point of view Paul McGann's tenure as the Doctor is only the TV movie, and I hold to my view that it's not enough to judge him on.

Ah well, your loss. But you're basing your judgment on an incomplete body of work.

Well, we must disagree on this one, as to me David Tennant was a great Doctor (the best one since Tom, IMO) and Colin wasn't.

We must definitely disagree on that one...

[outside]

Originally Posted by lach doch mal

Now I watched most or pretty much all of the Colin Baker stories. They are actually insightful, philosphical and not half bad. Colin's acting is great. Some philosophical questions of his series dip into the eighties zeitgeist (e.g. vegetarinism and species extinciton and habitat distruction). To be fair, in my mind, he was a brilliant doctor, who didn't get the recognition he deserved.

What does everyone else feel (sorry if it has been raised before, I just rewatched "Attack of the Cybermen" and I thought it was really good - well Perry was a bit of a nuisance, but I'm sure the male members of the forum species will disaggree.

After Tom Baker, Colin Baker's my favourite Doctor.

Unfortunately, I think his stories - as far as the writing and plotting goes - are very poor. I think that Eric Saward was the worst script-editor the series ever had and, it seems to me, that he had no idea of what the series was actually about or how to develop it. Around this time, every story was about arguing pointlessly in the TARDIS for most of the first episode then meeting up with an old pal/enemy. It's so tired, I'm not surprised Grade axed it (though, at the time, I thought him insane!). The original Season 23 was more of the same. Look at "The Trial of a Time Lord" - the production team were given time to improve the series but ended up squandering it. Holmes, Martin and the dreadful Pip and Jane had no idea of how the series would end (and that was before Saward withdrew his ep. 14 script).

Having said that, I love Seasons 22 and 23, but I wish it had been produced by a team as talented as, say, Hinchcliffe and Holmes.

The Sixth Doctor, however, is terrific.

[lach doch mal]

Originally Posted by outside

After Tom Baker, Colin Baker's my favourite Doctor.

Unfortunately, I think his stories - as far as the writing and plotting goes - are very poor. I think that Eric Saward was the worst script-editor the series ever had and, it seems to me, that he had no idea of what the series was actually about or how to develop it. Around this time, every story was about arguing pointlessly in the TARDIS for most of the first episode then meeting up with an old pal/enemy. It's so tired, I'm not surprised Grade axed it (though, at the time, I thought him insane!). The original Season 23 was more of the same. Look at "The Trial of a Time Lord" - the production team were given time to improve the series but ended up squandering it. Holmes, Martin and the dreadful Pip and Jane had no idea of how the series would end (and that was before Saward withdrew his ep. 14 script).

Having said that, I love Seasons 22 and 23, but I wish it had been produced by a team as talented as, say, Hinchcliffe and Holmes.

The Sixth Doctor, however, is terrific.

I'm starting to feel quite dumb now, as I'm enjoying the stories. Maybe I'm looking for sense (and finding it) when there is no sense to be had. I do see what you mean about the arguments (but I put them down to Peri, who seems to just question everything without any enjoyment - God knows why people hated Mel, she is miles better than Peri and has got a much better relationship with her doctors).

As I said before, some of the things touched on in the sixth's doctor's time are quite thought provoking (the two doctors definitely question human gluttony and the inhumanity of some of the slaughtering and rearing methods - e.g. keeping Jamie alive during the tenderisation to improve the flavour of the beast etc.).

[outside]

Originally Posted by lach doch mal

I'm starting to feel quite dumb now, as I'm enjoying the stories.

That's not what I'm suggesting! I just think that, during Colin Baker's tenure, the script-writers were coming up with old-fashioned, cliched storylines and bad dialogue. Didn't help that it was also saddled with directors and designers who, on the whole, lacked imagination. Having said that, I even love "Timelash".

It's my opinion. Sometimes, in this forum, you get the impression that opinions aren't allowed.

Originally Posted by lach doch mal

Maybe I'm looking for sense (and finding it) when there is no sense to be had.

I just watch Doctor Who and enjoy it. I don't go off on rage-filled rants if someone dares to find something incomprehensible.

Originally Posted by lach doch mal

God knows why people hated Mel, she is miles better than Peri and has got a much better relationship with her doctors).

I'm a Mel Fan so I'm biased but, when it comes down to it, she was just a perky girl who liked new outfits and gadding about the universe. She had as much depth a sheet of A4 paper.

Originally Posted by lach doch mal

As I said before, some of the things touched on in the sixth's doctor's time are quite thought provoking (the two doctors definitely question human gluttony and the inhumanity of some of the slaughtering and rearing methods - e.g. keeping Jamie alive during the tenderisation to improve the flavour of the beast etc.).

The fact that the Doctor is no longer vegetarian is an absolute perversion of the character and I think that Steven Moffat should be tarred and feathered for it. There was no need to have him eat bacon in "The Eleventh Hour". It was a disgrace.

[andy1231]

Originally Posted by lach doch mal

Actually Tingy (can I call you this?), I agree with you. It's not his fault of course (he wanted to use his own accent as far as I understood), and it was bloody ridiculous that he had to put on a mockney accent. His own accent is lovely, so I'm still a bit miffed about that (although I don't dislike his doctor, which is in contrast to you).

**after all most planets have a North and I'm sure most planets have a further North aka Scotland**

No they don't. Two "Scottish " Doctor's would have been one too many The Doctor is an alien from an alien world and to even think that there would be a "Scotland" on Gallifray is a pushing it a bit far. I'm not suggesting that any future Doctor should speak Queens English but too strong an accent grates and yes I am including Chris's "Northern" accent. A neutral accent is the best for The Doctor. What next a broad Geordie or a strong Devonshire one - any one remember what happened to a certain D Prowse in Star Wars ?

[tingramretro]

Originally Posted by andy1231

No they don't. Two "Scottish " Doctor's would have been one too many The Doctor is an alien from an alien world and to even think that there would be a "Scotland" on Gallifray is a pushing it a bit far. I'm not suggesting that any future Doctor should speak Queens English but too strong an accent grates and yes I am including Chris's "Northern" accent. A neutral accent is the best for The Doctor. What next a broad Geordie or a strong Devonshire one - any one remember what happened to a certain D Prowse in Star Wars ?

Surely, whether an accent is too strong or 'grates' depends very much on where you yourself live? I doubt a Scots viewer would think two Scottish Doctors at all incongruous, but too many supposedly 'neutral' English accents might well grate on them!

I always thought it rather a pity Dave wasn't allowed to voice Darth-he knew all the lines and everything!

'Luke, oi be your faaaather.'

[CoalHillJanitor]

Originally Posted by tingramretro

I always thought it rather a pity Dave wasn't allowed to voice Darth-he knew all the lines and everything!

'Luke, oi be your faaaather.'

Actually I'm not sure he did. I've heard that Dave was given 'dummy' lines to read in many scenes (including that one) to keep the spoiler distribution to a minimum.

[lach doch mal]

Originally Posted by outside

That's not what I'm suggesting! I just think that, during Colin Baker's tenure, the script-writers were coming up with old-fashioned, cliched storylines and bad dialogue. Didn't help that it was also saddled with directors and designers who, on the whole, lacked imagination. Having said that, I even love "Timelash".

It's my opinion. Sometimes, in this forum, you get the impression that opinions aren't allowed.



I just watch Doctor Who and enjoy it. I don't go off on rage-filled rants if someone dares to find something incomprehensible.



I'm a Mel Fan so I'm biased but, when it comes down to it, she was just a perky girl who liked new outfits and gadding about the universe. She had as much depth a sheet of A4 paper.



The fact that the Doctor is no longer vegetarian is an absolute perversion of the character and I think that Steven Moffat should be tarred and feathered for it. There was no need to have him eat bacon in "The Eleventh Hour". It was a disgrace.

As always we are on the same wavelenght.

To be honest, I like looking for philosophical concepts in any old rubbish, but generally I don't care why people enjoy something as long as they enjoy it. As I said, I enjoy Doctor Who for different reasons, good Science Fiction, or a good old romp, or because a story is thought provoking or because I like certain characters. That's why I hardly start arguments about things on here, it's all just my own not the majority's opinion.

I agree with you about the feathering of SM, how dare he change something so fundamental from the classic series

Spoiler

It didn't even occur to me

Originally Posted by andy1231

No they don't. Two "Scottish " Doctor's would have been one too many The Doctor is an alien from an alien world and to even think that there would be a "Scotland" on Gallifray is a pushing it a bit far. I'm not suggesting that any future Doctor should speak Queens English but too strong an accent grates and yes I am including Chris's "Northern" accent. A neutral accent is the best for The Doctor. What next a broad Geordie or a strong Devonshire one - any one remember what happened to a certain D Prowse in Star Wars ?

That doesn't make sense. You might just as well suggest that the doctor shouldn't have a British/English accent, and start talking in Japanese. If he choses the UK as his main playground, it's only to be expected that he uses the different accents from allover the British Isles.

Originally Posted by tingramretro

Surely, whether an accent is too strong or 'grates' depends very much on where you yourself live? I doubt a Scots viewer would think two Scottish Doctors at all incongruous, but too many supposedly 'neutral' English accents might well grate on them!
'

Agreed!

[Koquillion]

Originally Posted by outside

The fact that the Doctor is no longer vegetarian is an absolute perversion of the character and I think that Steven Moffat should be tarred and feathered for it. There was no need to have him eat bacon in "The Eleventh Hour". It was a disgrace.

Jelly Babies contain animal by products and cannot be eaten by vegetarians so he’s been eating 'meat' again since he was McGann! He also ate meat in the Doctor Dances so if he wants to try a bacon sarnie as a post tenth regeneration pick me up, why shouldn't he?

[Big Steve]

From what I have seen of Colin as the doctor ( and you need to remember that is only two stories Attack of the Cybermen and the second half of Trial of a Timelord) I think he could have gotten a bad break. However I guess I would be really interested in seeing some of his doctor in action.

However I did think Perri was annoying and well she only had two good things going for her

[outside]

Originally Posted by lach doch mal

As always we are on the same wavelenght.

How very unusual.

Originally Posted by lach doch mal

To be honest, I like looking for philosophical concepts in any old rubbish, but generally I don't care why people enjoy something as long as they enjoy it. As I said, I enjoy Doctor Who for different reasons, good Science Fiction, or a good old romp, or because a story is thought provoking or because I like certain characters. That's why I hardly start arguments about things on here, it's all just my own not the majority's opinion.

I like a story to have a bit of depth, too. Not so sure about "any old rubbish", though! There are some things which just aren't worth assigning a deeper meaning to... like "Meglos" or "Time-Flight".

Originally Posted by lach doch mal

I agree with you about the feathering of SM, how dare he change something so fundamental from the classic series

Spoiler

It didn't even occur to me

You may be surprised to learn that the Classic Series never stopped developing and didn't suspend itself in amber after the fourth episode, despite the disinformation you may have read in other posts.

Originally Posted by lach doch mal

That doesn't make sense. You might just as well suggest that the doctor shouldn't have a British/English accent, and start talking in Japanese. If he choses the UK as his main playground, it's only to be expected that he uses the different accents from allover the British Isles.

I don't know about you but I don't think McCoy played the role with a Scottish accent. His natural accent may have slipped through occasionally, ahem, but he's clearly putting on an English accent.

Also, I don't understand why an English accent - which is what "neutral" would be - is more believable/acceptable than any other British accent.

Originally Posted by Koquillion

Jelly Babies contain animal by products and cannot be eaten by vegetarians so he’s been eating 'meat' again since he was McGann! He also ate meat in the Doctor Dances so if he wants to try a bacon sarnie as a post tenth regeneration pick me up, why shouldn't he?

It was yet another needless diversion by Steven Moffat from the character quite clearly established in the Classic Series.

[lach doch mal]

Originally Posted by outside

How very unusual.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by outside

I like a story to have a bit of depth, too. Not so sure about "any old rubbish", though! There are some things which just aren't worth assigning a deeper meaning to... like "Meglos" or "Time-Flight".

I've never watched them, but i like a challenge. You would be surprised about the deep philosophical meaning I can extrapolate from the shallow depth of a saucer. Actually I should clarify, if you watch for something in anything, you will find it (e.g. edit I had an example here, but I took it off, because it could start the whole RTD SM debate again). If I want to deduce deeper meaning from the slime path of a snail in my garden, I will do so (does not make me intelligent but slightly mad). However, I fear this would normally be a topic for a pub discussion.

Originally Posted by outside

You may be surprised to learn that the Classic Series never stopped developing and didn't suspend itself in amber after the fourth episode, despite the disinformation you may have read in other posts.

Ah, you just destroyed my illusions.

Spoiler

Phew I'm pleased to hear that. Actually, in my mind the show kept developing and developing. For instance, Ace (one of my fave companions) was the first companion with a real backstory and her relationship with her doctor was rather interesting. Also the change from Jon Pertwee to Tom Baker was rather a big development etc.

Originally Posted by outside

I don't know about you but I don't think McCoy played the role with a Scottish accent. His natural accent may have slipped through occasionally, ahem, but he's clearly putting on an English accent.

I think he tried to put on an English accent, and there are some Irish inflections as well, but as you said his accent comes through a few times (as did David's occassionally).

I don't understand people who have problems with accents. It's interesting and as long as it isn't incomprehensible, it doesn't matter what accent the doctor has (I like a good brummy or yorkshire accent myself)

Originally Posted by outside

It was yet another needless diversion by Steven Moffat from the character quite clearly established in the Classic Series.

You are evil.

[nebogipfel]

Originally Posted by lach doch mal

"Barcelohnaaaaahhh"

I think that's not Queen's English, but Southeast English. However, I think I know what you mean, it always sounded slightly odd, because he exaggerated the phonemes and vowels.

**I'm a speech researcher, so I'm listening out for these things**

How interesting. Can you tell where I'm from by the way I type "Cheer up, Captain; How about a flower off a poor girl"?

Oh, and I didn't like Peri but I don't like to say so because it seems she already has plenty of knockers. *gets coat*

[daveyboy7472]

Originally Posted by nebogipfel

How interesting. Can you tell where I'm from by the way I type "Cheer up, Captain; How about a flower off a poor girl"?

Oh, and I didn't like Peri but I don't like to say so because it seems she already has plenty of knockers. *gets coat*

In Vengeance On Varos she had plenty of knockers.....Sil didn't like her at all!!!!!

[lach doch mal]

Originally Posted by nebogipfel

How interesting. Can you tell where I'm from by the way I type "Cheer up, Captain; How about a flower off a poor girl"?

At a stretch I would say London (however, you finally got it, didn't you, my dear Eliza)

Oh, and I didn't like Peri but I don't like to say so because it seems she already has plenty of knockers. *gets coat*

Even as a woman, I cannot but admire Peri's assets.