Did BB *really* want this to happen? I mean, are they so cynical, that they would allow manipulation of the HMs to the point of near assult (I'm assuming no-one was actually physically hurt?).

I almost wish for the simmering tension of BB4 again

The only people who should be held responsible are the idiots in the house that were involved. Emma, and to a far greater degree imo, Victor.

Yep BB pushed entertainment over the limit tonight, providing alcohol was stupid surely they must have realised this would mean the poo would hit the fan.

Nonsense. You cannot blame anyone but the people involved.

To a point I agree - we are all responsible for what we do. However, BB selected Emma and Victor, amongst others, because they wanted evil and sparks as a reaction to the stinging critisism of BB4.

I see even BB are ashamed to the point that the live show on C4 full of clips of daytime calm - are they trying to pacify us?

So, how does BB put a positive spin on this? Did you note on the ticker that they wanted people to spen money on quick yes/no votes "Can you sympathise with Vannessa", "Was Victor right?" .. etc .. total total cynicism.

They gave too much power to Emma (and michelle but emma especially) by allowing them back in the house.
Serves them right.

If I was Victor or Jason I'd be reacting the same although I would have already pissed on their stuff, smacked them one and walked out after smashing a mirror or two.

It's not an unrealistic assumption that BB5 is over.

Victor and Jay were brewing for a battle all night.. they are supposed to be men... men do not lash out... verbally or otherwise whatever the provocation.. so marco danced.. big deal!

I hope your wrong, but you could be right and it will be VERY sad if thats the case.

Rubbish! The guilty parties will be removed if necessary and it will carry on. There has been violence in a BB before and it didnt stop. Why would this one be any different?

Its the casting. BB5 has an awful lot of unstable people - Emma, Marco, Michelle, Nadia,,. Shell isn't tough nor is Stuart, Victor and Jason were picked to play those roles.

Its the most unstable set of HM ever in the most stressful house. Its hardly surprising Victor and Jason have overplayed their role. It was the same in BB3 where Jade was a step too far but this is far far more irresponsible.

If anyone has hit anyone BB5 will be over as the other tensions could be just as destructive and they will have failed their duty of care. If not Victor and Jason have probably got to be evicted for threatening people and you wonder if Vanessa or Shell would want to stay.

An ignominious end? I'm sort of with you there Joe.

I wonder if the house is now swarming with producers/ directors and psychologists trying to get a grip on the place.

Playing with fire is entertaining but it can burn a house down.

Thats rubbish Emma. The HM's have done no more wrong than agreeing to enter a TV game show. It is Big Brothers duty to make sure they are safe and unharmed. Instead they engineered a situation like this and it went too far. It's the producers who are responsible.

Also, in a normal BB evictions would have reduced the crowding in the house. Moreover, the fake eviction was planned for week 1, when conflicts were less fully developed.When Em and M re-entered, the house was taken back a week, but with all the conflicts heightened.

The producers combined too many ways of avoiding another BB4, it seems to me.

The producers have done a great job. I think their mistake tonight was allowing alcohol, but even that was not a major error.

Situations like this have occured on several occasions in overseas versions of BB. Sadly, thuggery is part of life. BB is all about watching the interaction of people in a variety of different situations ..... what happened in the early hours is part and parcel of this.

The solution is simple. Those using violence or the threat of violence are removed and the show continues, usually with replacement housemates.

I am concerned that they have conducted an experiment similar to the Stanford(?) one where one lot get to be the jailers of the others and things quickly get out of hand. By encouraging them into nasty tricks from the bedsit BB has given a string message that unpleasant behaviour is acceptable. For some time I have been trying to avoid comparisons with Iraq prison scandals because this is clearly on nothing like the same scale. But BB worked hard to produce a culture of disrespect and it seems to me likely that at least some HMs are acting in ways that are significantly worse than their normal at home behaviour. I don't like any of them but I think in the future they may come to feel shame for things they have partly been manipulated into.

But anyone who reads these forums let alone a trained psychologist could tell you that this had a high probability of happening. They put instable,antagonistic "opposites" peope in . They put too many of them in (Emma and Michelle and Jason would have done if they had passed a better psychologist - there was no need for Victor, Nadia or Marco) They designed the most stressful series ever. They failed their duty of care.

The solution isnt simple though - there is real doubt if Nadia, Vanessa or Marco should go. By your "threat definition" Marco probably should unless you have to make the threat to the person. Self defence isn't violence - although working out when it is is difficult. It doesn't help anyway as the HM who are left don't all want to stay or will go if others leave. finally as they are all traumatised anyway (Shell particularly but Marco and Nadia and Michelle too0 who would take the risk that they won't get worse if they stay there. Damages loom.

It started with deciding kitten deserved to lose her suitcase - just as Emma deserved wine thrown over her.

Emma, lets not forget, BB is 'evil' this year. That includes constructing a smaller house with angled walls, lowered ceilings, raised floors - all designed to mke people stir crazy. Is that not what Davina said?

Sure, one could say everyone's accountable for him/herself - and can choose to drink/not drink. No one is required to fly off the handle at two returned HM's. One could even go so far as to say even though BB seemed to pick people that would clash - that's not leading anyone down a requisite path to battle.

But at the very least - again with the design of the house - BB/Endemol have shown their desire for drama/conflict/personal meltdowns. That much cannot be disputed.

I'd say they were quite successful.

It sounds like your version of BB is finally emulating the U.S. version (which has pushed someone to the point of assault previously).

If you have the ingredients for a Molatoff cocktail, well why not mix one.

But you can't put unstable people in a situation designed to stress them out and then claim its their fault. Its like putting a baby on an upstairs window-sill and saying try and be careful.

Though I agree that BB has some responsibility, these people aren't helpless babies.

People make me laugh.

Before it started people were bearing the attitude of "Well, that's gonna cause an explosion or two, what with the homophobic asylum seeker and asylum-seeker hating gay"

Then it's all shock and horror when the bombs do go off?

They were entitled to go back into the house as the public did not evict them. The fact that they had issues with Jason and Victor was not a figment of their imagination. It was because of what BB chose to show them. The outcome was inevitable. I blame BB