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Mobile Phone with Quality Camera?
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vanzandtfan
14-08-2010
Hi,

I need to buy both a new camera and a new phone. It makes sense to but both in one, but I'm a lot more concerned with camera quality than I am with the phone (tbh, just basic phone functionality would be fine for me).

So can anyone give me some ideas for what mobile phones out there have the best camera and if any of these can really rival standalone cameras?

Thanks
Gormond
14-08-2010
None of them rival a stand alone camera, there simply isn't enough space in a phone for a decent lens.
fifilapew
14-08-2010
I forgot to bring my camera on holiday with me aNd my iphone4 made a great replacement, i was very surprised.

In daylight as long as you're not trying to capture a moving image it takes lovely pics and the led flash means my night photos are clear enough. The shutter speed is the best thing though, as you don't get that 'lag' that i've experienced with other camera phones. I also loaded an app called colour splash for about £1 which takes all the colour out of the pic then let's you add the colour back to specific areas, i created some really lovely pics with this.

Basically, it is an excellent snapshot replacement, but for anything more serious it still isn't good enough.
Gormond
14-08-2010
Originally Posted by fifilapew:
“I forgot to bring my camera on holiday with me aNd my iphone4 made a great replacement, i was very surprised.

In daylight as long as you're not trying to capture a moving image it takes lovely pics and the led flash means my night photos are clear enough. The shutter speed is the best thing though, as you don't get that 'lag' that i've experienced with other camera phones. I also loaded an app called colour splash for about £1 which takes all the colour out of the pic then let's you add the colour back to specific areas, i created some really lovely pics with this.

Basically, it is an excellent snapshot replacement, but for anything more serious it still isn't good enough.”

One thing I didn't like about the iPhones camera is the lack of a dedicated button but camera+ solved that, sadly it's been pulled from the app store now.

The best camera phone is probably something like SE Satio or the Samsung Pixon12, possibly the Nokia N8 when it's out. None of them hold up to an inexpensive point and shoot though and have no optical zoom.
vanzandtfan
16-08-2010
Thanks for the info, looks like a standalone it is then.

Cheers
clonmult
16-08-2010
Originally Posted by Gormond:
“One thing I didn't like about the iPhones camera is the lack of a dedicated button but camera+ solved that, sadly it's been pulled from the app store now.

The best camera phone is probably something like SE Satio or the Samsung Pixon12, possibly the Nokia N8 when it's out. None of them hold up to an inexpensive point and shoot though and have no optical zoom.”

You keep saying this, yet its not been true for quite a few years.

Inexpensive point and shoots generally have terrible/compromised lenses, cruddy small/noisy sensors, and typically have an optical zoom of about 3-4x. Which is handy, but not really that useful.

Have you compared a phone to a compact, or are you going off hearsay? I've done comparisons over the years, and phone cameras can be equal to a dedicated camera.
Gormond
16-08-2010
Originally Posted by clonmult:
“You keep saying this, yet its not been true for quite a few years.

Inexpensive point and shoots generally have terrible/compromised lenses, cruddy small/noisy sensors, and typically have an optical zoom of about 3-4x. Which is handy, but not really that useful.

Have you compared a phone to a compact, or are you going off hearsay? I've done comparisons over the years, and phone cameras can be equal to a dedicated camera.”

A friend of mine has a Panasonic Lumix DMC-FS10, 12MP, 5x Zoom, and it takes far better pictures than any camera phone and also shoots HD video at 720p all for about £100 - review here http://www.trustedreviews.com/digita...ix-DMC-FS10/p1

http://www.simplyelectronics.net/mai....php?pid=10687 - £98.95 free delivery here.
clonmult
16-08-2010
Originally Posted by Gormond:
“A friend of mine has a Panasonic Lumix DMC-FS10, 12MP, 5x Zoom, and it takes far better pictures than any camera phone and also shoots HD video at 720p all for about £100 - review here http://www.trustedreviews.com/digita...ix-DMC-FS10/p1

http://www.simplyelectronics.net/mai....php?pid=10687 - £98.95 free delivery here.”

That doesn't really help your argument though.

I've got a £200 panasonic compact, bought for its HD video and being waterproof. Great camera, but I really don't think it takes better pictures than the N95 ever did, although I never had a chance to compare the two. When I have done comparisons in the past, the phones have been equal to compacts.
Gormond
16-08-2010
Originally Posted by clonmult:
“That doesn't really help your argument though.

I've got a £200 panasonic compact, bought for its HD video and being waterproof. Great camera, but I really don't think it takes better pictures than the N95 ever did, although I never had a chance to compare the two. When I have done comparisons in the past, the phones have been equal to compacts.”

Strange everyone I know thinks there compact takes better photos than there phone... If I could borrow my mates camera I would do a side by side with the pics from my iPhone for a comparison.
linkinpark875
16-08-2010
Originally Posted by Gormond:
“One thing I didn't like about the iPhones camera is the lack of a dedicated button but camera+ solved that, sadly it's been pulled from the app store now.

The best camera phone is probably something like SE Satio or the Samsung Pixon12, possibly the Nokia N8 when it's out. None of them hold up to an inexpensive point and shoot though and have no optical zoom.”

I have to disagree most of these 12 mega pixel cameras never took off. I don't think there's a demand for them. The Satio apart from being a terrible phone in general the pictures are dire. I bought it expecting a good camera phone but was let down by poor colours, awful flash and over stretched 16:9 photos and very average video quality.

Somebody said the Iphone 4 probably the best 5MP camera but not worth the cost if you just want a camera phone. The Pixon 12 looked a very attractive phone but never used it so can't judge. I liked a few older SE phones for cameras but I'd really only recommend a phone that you can buy today.

Depending on the budget but I'd look at the Pixon 8:

http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/st...hTerms=PIXON+8

It's been out a while but it's 8MP has a flash and good OS. Only £130 too so good price.

So my suggestions would be Samsung Pixon 8 or 12. There's also the Samsung Jet with a 5MP camera another mid range good phone. There's a few LG Viewitys around with better cameras but from experience they tend to be quite poor.

Alot of new phones have a larger focus on apps and are smartphones so they just put average cameras in. It's hard to find a very good camera phone now.
len112
16-08-2010
Originally Posted by linkinpark875:
“I have to disagree most of these 12 mega pixel cameras never took off. I don't think there's a demand for them. The Satio apart from being a terrible phone in general the pictures are dire. I bought it expecting a good camera phone but was let down by poor colours, awful flash and over stretched 16:9 photos and very average video quality.

Somebody said the Iphone 4 probably the best 5MP camera but not worth the cost if you just want a camera phone. The Pixon 12 looked a very attractive phone but never used it so can't judge. I liked a few older SE phones for cameras but I'd really only recommend a phone that you can buy today.

Depending on the budget but I'd look at the Pixon 8:

http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/st...hTerms=PIXON+8

It's been out a while but it's 8MP has a flash and good OS. Only £130 too so good price.

So my suggestions would be Samsung Pixon 8 or 12. There's also the Samsung Jet with a 5MP camera another mid range good phone. There's a few LG Viewitys around with better cameras but from experience they tend to be quite poor.

Alot of new phones have a larger focus on apps and are smartphones so they just put average cameras in. It's hard to find a very good camera phone now.”

The Satio gets slagged off a lot but i've had mine since December and I can only remember it freezing on a couple of occasions . I used it at a concert when my cybershot TX7 batteries went flat and the video was superb . I use it primarily as a phone often forget about the camera part but certainly in good lighting it's more than adequate
magikmax
16-08-2010
All the Sony Cybershot phones I've had have had great cameras in them, picture quality, for a mobile phone, is superb. I can't recommend them though, because their reliability as a mobile phone is questionable.

If you can pick up a Sony Ericsson C902 cheap on say eBay, it'll do the job nicely.
clonmult
16-08-2010
Originally Posted by linkinpark875:
“Depending on the budget but I'd look at the Pixon 8:

http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/st...hTerms=PIXON+8

It's been out a while but it's 8MP has a flash and good OS. Only £130 too so good price. ”

It doesn't have a flash.

It has LED lighting, which has neither the brightness or range of a regular flash, although it does still get some good reviews.
GetFrodo
17-08-2010
I have not seen any camera phone that comes even close to a cheap compact camera for low light or action shots. And if you do want to do anything more than point and click, even if the phone does have adjustable camera settings, they are normally a bugger to get to...
The_One
17-08-2010
And i thought my iPhone 4's camera was awesome...
the picture quality is really great, theres just no point in having another camera unless you're a professional photographer with a £1k+ camera.

The HD camera, cant get much better quality unless you want 1080. Capacity aint a problem with the 32GB version.

Is also my mp3 player, ipod, radio, PSP, internet browser and messenger, GPS navigation, wifi router, flashlight, and phone. Can also have the phone linked to the TV for watching high quality standard definition movies.

Just a bit expensive 3 network is the cheapest last time i checked.
oh and theres no aerial signal issue with mine, maybe because i use a case.
GetFrodo
18-08-2010
Originally Posted by The_One:
“And i thought my iPhone 4's camera was awesome...
the picture quality is really great, theres just no point in having another camera unless you're a professional photographer with a £1k+ camera.”

Are you seriously trying to suggest that a £500 DSLR or even a £200 compact is not significantly better than your iPhone?

It must be Jobsian physics at play

Originally Posted by The_One:
“The HD camera, cant get much better quality unless you want 1080. Capacity aint a problem with the 32GB version.

Is also my mp3 player, ipod, radio, PSP, internet browser and messenger, GPS navigation, wifi router, flashlight, and phone. Can also have the phone linked to the TV for watching high quality standard definition movies.”

All of which means that you can shoot pictures all day with a proper camera, you'd have no chance with an iPhone. And let's not mention the spare battery issue...

On the other hand, my DSLR doesn't geotag photos, it seems none of them do
clonmult
18-08-2010
Originally Posted by GetFrodo:
“I have not seen any camera phone that comes even close to a cheap compact camera for low light or action shots. And if you do want to do anything more than point and click, even if the phone does have adjustable camera settings, they are normally a bugger to get to...”

I haven't seen a cheap compact thats any good for action shots - they're made for average users.

I'll agree to a point with the low light issue, but a phone with a decent flash (ie. N82, or a K750 with the addon flash) can easily equal a cheap compact camera for low light photography. Just because you haven't seen one, doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Your average compacts settings are generally a nightmare to navigate as well, and most people don't tend to bother with them.
clonmult
18-08-2010
Originally Posted by GetFrodo:
“Are you seriously trying to suggest that a £500 DSLR or even a £200 compact is not significantly better than your iPhone?

It must be Jobsian physics at play ”

Those dedicated cameras will have a larger zoom range, but at least the iPhone has optics dedicated to one focal length - and you can't argue that you have to spend thousands on a DSLR zoom lens thats not got compromised optics. The best SLR lenses are normally the primes - fixed focal length.

Originally Posted by GetFrodo:
“All of which means that you can shoot pictures all day with a proper camera, you'd have no chance with an iPhone. And let's not mention the spare battery issue...

On the other hand, my DSLR doesn't geotag photos, it seems none of them do ”

I'm sure I've seen methods for geotagging DSLR photos, some addon available for some models?
GetFrodo
18-08-2010
Originally Posted by clonmult:
“I haven't seen a cheap compact thats any good for action shots - they're made for average users.

I'll agree to a point with the low light issue, but a phone with a decent flash (ie. N82, or a K750 with the addon flash) can easily equal a cheap compact camera for low light photography. Just because you haven't seen one, doesn't mean that they don't exist.”

I didn't say they were good, I said they were better than phone cameras. But ok, excluding camera phones without a xenon flash (like the iPhone), compact cameras are way ahead in low light conditions.

Originally Posted by clonmult:
“Those dedicated cameras will have a larger zoom range, but at least the iPhone has optics dedicated to one focal length - and you can't argue that you have to spend thousands on a DSLR zoom lens thats not got compromised optics. The best SLR lenses are normally the primes - fixed focal length.



I'm sure I've seen methods for geotagging DSLR photos, some addon available for some models?”

Originally Posted by clonmult:
“Those dedicated cameras will have a larger zoom range, but at least the iPhone has optics dedicated to one focal length - and you can't argue that you have to spend thousands on a DSLR zoom lens thats not got compromised optics. The best SLR lenses are normally the primes - fixed focal length.”

I'm saying that *any* DSLR, even with a cheap kit zoom lens, will take better shots than the iPhone 4. Bigger lens, bigger sensor = better picture. The only comparison I could find between the iPhone 4 camera and a compact camera concluded that the iPhone came close, but the small sensor let it down in low light conditions. A comparison of the iPhone 4 versus a DSLR just doesn't exist because it is a ridiculous notion.
GetFrodo
18-08-2010
Originally Posted by clonmult:
“I'm sure I've seen methods for geotagging DSLR photos, some addon available for some models?”

The only cheapish ones I've seen involve a separate GPS device which logs your location continually. On your computer you can then match up the locations with the photos according to the time and date of the photo. Too much like hard work...

For over a grand you can have something attach to your Canon and it will geotag them and stream them live to your computer as you take the photos. To much like overkill...
clonmult
18-08-2010
Originally Posted by GetFrodo:
“The only cheapish ones I've seen involve a separate GPS device which logs your location continually. On your computer you can then match up the locations with the photos according to the time and date of the photo. Too much like hard work...

For over a grand you can have something attach to your Canon and it will geotag them and stream them live to your computer as you take the photos. To much like overkill...”

I knew it existed .....

A much cheaper alternative. Strap a relatively cheap smartphone with GPS (ie. Nokia 5230) to the bottom of the DSLR, and take a photo on that every time you take one with the DSLR. Although god knows how easy it is to transfer geotags from one picture to another ....
emmetmcl
18-08-2010
LG Viewty. Its made as a ''camera'' phone. Its intended to be more of a camera than a phone if you know what I mean, it can record 120fps video and you can edit video on the phone itself, they're around 150€ now.
clonmult
19-08-2010
Originally Posted by emmetmcl:
“LG Viewty. Its made as a ''camera'' phone. Its intended to be more of a camera than a phone if you know what I mean, it can record 120fps video and you can edit video on the phone itself, they're around 150€ now.”

The viewty should be less than that, my partner bought one early on last year and it was under £100. But they've virtually disappeared from the shelves of most stores.

But the camera is only average, and the flash is pretty useless. Shame, as it promised so much, but delivered so little.
sonicshadow
19-08-2010
Originally Posted by len112:
“The Satio gets slagged off a lot but i've had mine since December and I can only remember it freezing on a couple of occasions . I used it at a concert when my cybershot TX7 batteries went flat and the video was superb . I use it primarily as a phone often forget about the camera part but certainly in good lighting it's more than adequate”

I have had a few issues with my Satio, but the camera is fantastic.
rwould
23-08-2010
I'd pick up a C902 or C905. Both can be got pretty cheaply, and unless you are after professional pictures the images are excellent from both with a wide range of settings that can match and better many cheap compacts.
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